New Jeresy firesale? Carter and Kidd on the block?

[slinslin]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/485745p-408955c.html

"Thorn mulls next Net move

BY MITCH LAWRENCE
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

The most disappointing team by far in the Atlantic Division takes the court tonight for the first time in 2007, hoping that it will not be not a continuation of the last two months of 2006.

But Nets president Rod Thorn freely admits that he doesn't know if his underachieving 13-18 club - already with nine losses in games they led with six minutes left - is finally going to get its act together starting tonight against Chicago.

Thorn traded for backup swingman Bernard Robinson on Wednesday. But that could be only the first deal for the Nets before the Feb.22 trading deadline.

According to one Western Conference executive, "The Nets are trying to do everything they can" to make a move that will jumpstart their season." The executive said that they would even deal Jason Kidd if the right trade came along, although his age and contract make him difficult to move. Vince Carter has the most appeal, although he can opt out of his contract after this season. Carter's name has been linked to the Clippers, who are trying to move Corey Maggette and Cuttino Mobley. But the Nets don't see them as a sufficient upgrade.

"What normally transpires between Jan. 15 and the trading deadline is that a lot of teams figure out, 'We're not what we thought we were,'" Thorn said. "But this year, it's taken teams longer because everybody in the Eastern Conference - and I'm even including Philadelphia - has a chance, particularly in our division."

Kidd has 2yrs/40M$ remaining on his contract after this season.

Carter makes 15M and has one year left on his contract but will most likely opt out.

I would be interessted in Carter for the right package. *cough* Carter for Thomas and Bell works under the cap could throw in some players like James Jones and Mikki Moore. Obviously it would cost us picks..

Carter,Moore, Adams for Diaw, Bell, Banks, Jones. The way Diaw has played I am actually a bit scared of his contract down the road so.. Thomas would start instead of Diaw and Carter instead of Bell.

If you knew you would resign Carter.

PG-Kidd
SG-Bell
SF-Jefferson
PF-Diaw
C- Krstic

PG- Nash
SG- Carter
SF- Marion
PF- Amare
C- Thomas (Next season hopefully Brandan Wright or Joakim Noah)

 

[Espo]

No way. Why mess with this team for an aging Carter and get rid of the teams toughness by trading Bell?

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Man, thinking of Carter here is somewhat intriguing (whereas Iverson has no intrigue to me). We all know he can thrive as the primary off-the-ball option, but can he be a secondary and sometimes tertiary off-the-ball option? Also, his D isn't reknowned, right? But, seeing as all the 2's we've faced this year have all gone off for what seems to be an average of 40ppg, at least he'd have the O to go right back at them....

Nash to Stoudemire-Carter-Marion = 15 assists per game?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

There is virtually no trade that interests me that alters our starting unit. The only trade that I would consider would be a JJ/Ely trade for example. Our 7 man rotation might as well be written in stone.

 

[elindholm]

Carter for Thomas and Bell works under the cap could throw in some players like James Jones and Mikki Moore. Obviously it would cost us picks..

Carter,Moore, Adams for Diaw, Bell, Banks, Jones. The way Diaw has played I am actually a bit scared of his contract down the road so.. Thomas would start instead of Diaw and Carter instead of Bell.

Is Thomas part of the package to New Jersey, or not? He can't start at center for the Suns if he's playing for the Nets.

In any case, Carter wouldn't improve the Suns much. His level of intensity is erratic, to say the least, and he doesn't play defense. Even if the Suns traded for him, they'd be better off if he didn't sign an extension.

 

[slinslin]

??
Thomas wouldn't be part of that. Bell, Diaw, Banks, Jones for Carter, Moore, Adamas would work as well as Bell, Thomas and picks for Carter.

Diaw so far this season has not proven he is worth his contract so I might part with him to upgrade from Bell to Carter which is definately an upgrade. Defensively they are about the same I would say, Carter is much better on the board and on a completely different level offensively.

 

[elindholm]

Thomas wouldn't be part of that. Bell, Diaw, Banks, Jones for Carter, Moore, Adamas would work

Ah, I see. You wrote "Thomas" instead of "Diaw" at the beginning of your first post.

No thanks anyway. Especially since, with Diaw's trade value well below zero right now, the Suns would probably have to include the Atlanta pick for New Jersey even to consider the deal.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ah, I see. You wrote "Thomas" instead of "Diaw" at the beginning of your first post.

No thanks anyway. Especially since, with Diaw's trade value well below zero right now, the Suns would probably have to include the Atlanta pick for New Jersey even to consider the deal.

I would respectfully disagree. Diaw's trade value is considerable.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I would respectfully disagree. Diaw's trade value is considerable.

 

[elindholm]

I would respectfully disagree. Diaw's trade value is considerable.

Don't get me wrong, I like Diaw a lot and hope he'll pull through. But put yourself in another GM's shoes. You're committing huge dollars for the next five years to someone who has had exactly one good season and is currently posting the underwhelming averages of 10, 5 and 5 -- not to mention 2 1/2 turnovers -- in 32 minutes per game.

Look across the league for other players with similar statistical profiles and think, "Would I want that person for $45 million over the next five years?" For example, Luke Walton is currently posting 12, 5 and 4. Would any GM in the league give Walton $45 million over five years right now? Of course not.

 

[hcsilla]

Look across the league for other players with similar statistical profiles and think, "Would I want that person for $45 million over the next five years?" For example, Luke Walton is currently posting 12, 5 and 4. Would any GM in the league give Walton $45 million over five years right now? Of course not.

Perhaps GM's take a look also on the player himself not only on his stats.

Diaw is obviously a better player than Walton while Walton also will get a sizeable contract.

 

[Covert Rain]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/485745p-408955c.html



Kidd has 2yrs/40M$ remaining on his contract after this season.

Carter makes 15M and has one year left on his contract but will most likely opt out.

I would be interessted in Carter for the right package. *cough* Carter for Thomas and Bell works under the cap could throw in some players like James Jones and Mikki Moore. Obviously it would cost us picks..

Carter,Moore, Adams for Diaw, Bell, Banks, Jones. The way Diaw has played I am actually a bit scared of his contract down the road so.. Thomas would start instead of Diaw and Carter instead of Bell.

If you knew you would resign Carter.

PG-Kidd
SG-Bell
SF-Jefferson
PF-Diaw
C- Krstic

PG- Nash
SG- Carter
SF- Marion
PF- Amare
C- Thomas (Next season hopefully Brandan Wright or Joakim Noah)

No fricken way do I want less defense by losing Bell and puttin Carter in the starting lineup. We don't need an aging Vince Carter who doesn't play any defense and wants the ball ALL the time. Bad fit for a team that doesn't need his offense.

However, since dreaming is free and I know it would NEVER happen. How cool would it be to get a true backup point guard in Jason Kidd coming off your bench to back up Steve. Yeah, I know it's not realistic and the dollars wouldn't work. However, it would be cool.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

No fricken way do I want less defense by losing Bell and puttin Carter in the starting lineup. We don't need an aging Vince Carter who doesn't play any defense and wants the ball ALL the time. Bad fit for a team that doesn't need his offense.

I think that perception of him is wrong. He plays alongside Kidd right now, who is the one on NJ who controls the ball. VC lives off of assists from Kidd and he'd do that here. With regards to the Suns D, have you seen the play of Arenas, Redd, Rip and every other 2 this year? There is no D, but with VC at least you have a counterpunch....

 

[Covert Rain]

I think that perception of him is wrong. He plays alongside Kidd right now, who is the one on NJ who controls the ball. VC lives off of assists from Kidd and he'd do that here. With regards to the Suns D, have you seen the play of Arenas, Redd, Rip and every other 2 this year? There is no D, but with VC at least you have a counterpunch....

How can the perception of a player who has never played defense his entire career be wrong? Vince Carter has lead both teams he has played on in shot attempts. I don't think perception is the problem.

Again, we are the best offensive team in the NBA. We don't need his scoring. Not to mention that his touches would take away from Amare and Nash. No thanks.

 

[boisesuns]

I don't think there is a player on the Nets I would want on the Suns-at the expense of the current players.

Carter is athletic, but a terrible defender, and shoots wild shots. Kidd......No thanks

 

[Divide Et Impera]

He has led his teams in shot attempts bvecause he was the only option in TOR (McG was still coming up) and he is the primary recipient in NJ for shots. He has averaged 4 assists per game for his career and he is around 6 rebounds per game. I just think the idea is intriguing because he is a type of player that could thrive here in this system. Hell, look at the games he has against us all the time. I'd rather those points be going to our team....

 

[Covert Rain]

He has led his teams in shot attempts bvecause he was the only option in TOR (McG was still coming up) and he is the primary recipient in NJ for shots. He has averaged 4 assists per game for his career and he is around 6 rebounds per game. I just think the idea is intriguing because he is a type of player that could thrive here in this system. Hell, look at the games he has against us all the time. I'd rather those points be going to our team....

I will agree with you from a style perspective. However, not with the makeup of this team right now. You would have to give up defensive pieces (which this team can't do) or take away from Amare's touches. When it comes down to close games, I would rather be at the free throw line then depend on a wild jump shot.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

My point is that there are no defensive pieces! Bell isn't getting the charge calls with the frequency he has in the past and we are getting lit up in a big way by every 2 in the league. That kid from GS lit us up like crazy right before the streak. There is no defensive sacrifice in acquiring VC, but there is a HUGE offensive advantage, which just means we'll be able to outscore people even better. Also, with a player like VC, maybe we wouldn't consistently blow 30 point leads....

It's not anything that's going to happen anyways, but all I'm saying is that I'd be intigued by the idea....

 

[slinslin]

Anyone who says they would rather have Bell than Carter, that's just crazy.

Bell is a decent defender, horrible rebounder, makes lots of boneheaded plays and is offensively extremely limited except as catch and shoot player.

Carter 6 rebounds per game, 1.2 steals per game 39mpg
Bell 3 rebounds per game, 0.5 steals per game 37mpg

How many starting shooting guards that play more than 35 minutes per game get less rebounds than Raja Bell? Without doing research I'd say ZERO.

Mickael Pietrus though would be the guy who I would really want to be our shooting guard instead of Bell. I'd drive Bell to Golden State personally.

 

[Covert Rain]

My point is that there are no defensive pieces! Bell isn't getting the charge calls with the frequency he has in the past and we are getting lit up in a big way by every 2 in the league. That kid from GS lit us up like crazy right before the streak. There is no defensive sacrifice in acquiring VC, but there is a HUGE offensive advantage, which just means we'll be able to outscore people even better. Also, with a player like VC, maybe we wouldn't consistently blow 30 point leads....

It's not anything that's going to happen anyways, but all I'm saying is that I'd be intigued by the idea....

Again, we don't need his offense. His offense does nothing for us. In order for Carter to get his touches he would take away from someon like Amare. Getting Vince doesn't increase our PPG by 20 ppg. Also, with Vinces lack of defense (which is far worse then Raja), we would probably see 30 point leads vanish faster not slower.

Anyone who says they would rather have Bell than Carter, that's just crazy.

Bell is a decent defender, horrible rebounder, makes lots of boneheaded plays and is offensively extremely limited except as catch and shoot player.

Carter 6 rebounds per game, 1.2 steals per game 39mpg
Bell 3 rebounds per game, 0.5 steals per game 37mpg

How many starting shooting guards that play more than 35 minutes per game get less rebounds than Raja Bell? Without doing research I'd say ZERO.

Mickael Pietrus though would be the guy who I would really want to be our shooting guard instead of Bell. I'd drive Bell to Golden State personally.

I didn't say I would rather have Bell then Carter. What I am saying is that if I had to choose, I would rather have Bells defense then Carters offense based on this teams makeup right now. If this team had steller defenders and was in need of more offense this would be a no brainer to me. I would say get him. However, this team doesn't need his offense and VC offers nothing on defense.

 

[hcsilla]

Anyone who says they would rather have Bell than Carter, that's just crazy.

Bell is a decent defender, horrible rebounder, makes lots of boneheaded plays and is offensively extremely limited except as catch and shoot player.

Carter 6 rebounds per game, 1.2 steals per game 39mpg
Bell 3 rebounds per game, 0.5 steals per game 37mpg

Since when is rebounding a priority for a SG?

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Who has Raja defended this year? We are, what, 22-8 with no D from the 2 spot? To think that replacing Bell with Carter would not increase our ppg by at least 5 is crazy, especially considering the amount of shots we put up. Our point differential would likely increase by about 2 and 2 guards from around the league would CONTINUE to put up 40+ ppg....

 

[Suns_fan69]

Anyone who says they would rather have Bell than Carter, that's just crazy.

Bell is a decent defender, horrible rebounder, makes lots of boneheaded plays and is offensively extremely limited except as catch and shoot player.

Carter 6 rebounds per game, 1.2 steals per game 39mpg
Bell 3 rebounds per game, 0.5 steals per game 37mpg

How many starting shooting guards that play more than 35 minutes per game get less rebounds than Raja Bell? Without doing research I'd say ZERO.

Man, you're really stuck on this rebounding with Raja, aren't you? Frankly, I don't see what's so significant with Bell's rebounding numbers, as long as he's not consistently giving up offensive rebounds to the guy he's guarding. I don't really care enough to look it up but off hand I'd say it hasn't been a problem. If he's boxing out, I don't care what rebounds he's getting.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Since when is rebounding a priority for a SG?

On a rebounding weak team, an extra 3 boards means that CHI gets 12 OReb instead of 15Oreb (or whatever the actual stat was) and we win straight up and not on a miracle 3pter by Leo....

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I don't think there is a player on the Nets I would want on the Suns-at the expense of the current players.

Carter is athletic, but a terrible defender, and shoots wild shots. Kidd......No thanks

Nenad Kristic pre-injury would have been the only one that I would have said.