New Owner - Mat Ishbia

Phrazbit

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The way it works now you have to be pretty close to the worst team. Again, I ask, what about Ishbia screams he is going to stay idle? In terms of injuries? That can happen to any team at any time. You can't say well because a theoretical injury could occur better not trade that number 1.

I believe "in the lotto" merely means you were not a playoff team, you are a team that takes part in the lottery.

And again, I agree, I don't think Ishbia will be idle, but that is a double edged sword. My first taste of Ishbia's hands on approach is not a good one.
 

Covert Rain

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I believe "in the lotto" merely means you were not a playoff team, you are a team that takes part in the lottery.

And again, I agree, I don't think Ishbia will be idle, but that is a double edged sword. My first taste of Ishbia's hands on approach is not a good one.
OK, yeah I missed you said "lotto" but thought you said #2 or #3 pick. My bad. Again, I bet none of them convey to a game changing pick.
 

Covert Rain

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I believe "in the lotto" merely means you were not a playoff team, you are a team that takes part in the lottery.

And again, I agree, I don't think Ishbia will be idle, but that is a double edged sword. My first taste of Ishbia's hands on approach is not a good one.
By the way, this won't be a popular opinion, but Book is not Isbia's legacy even if he rips off a couple titles. I have said this before but IMO by the end of Books next contract, I wouldn't be shocked to see him moved for a boatload of players and assets before that contract is over if they are not getting it done. I simply don't see him, with his pockets, letting the Suns become doormats.
 

Phrazbit

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OK, yeah I missed you said "lotto" but before that I thought you said #2 or #3. My bad. Again, I bet none of them convey to a game changing pick.

I don't see a path to contention beyond 2026, at least not a realistic one.

I think we will be in a brutal rebuilding phase and likely sending some very juicy picks in 27, 28 (the pick swap) and 29.
 

Phrazbit

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By the way, this won't be a popular opinion, but Book is not Isbia's legacy even if he rips off a couple titles. I have said this before but IMO by the end of Books next contract, I wouldn't be shocked to see him moved for a boatload of players and assets before that contract is over if they are not getting it done. I simply don't see him, with his pockets, letting the Suns become doormats.

If we're trading Booker in a few years then I would say it is extreeeeeemely likely that we are the definition of a doormat afterwards. You don't hit the reset button and get picks and parts for your star and expect to be good immediately afterward.
 

Covert Rain

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I don't see a path to contention beyond 2026, at least not a realistic one.

I think we will be in a brutal rebuilding phase and likely sending some very juicy picks in 27, 28 (the pick swap) and 29.
If we're trading Booker in a few years then I would say it is extreeeeeemely likely that we are the definition of a doormat afterwards. You don't hit the reset button and get picks and parts for your star and expect to be good immediately afterward.
Well so much can happen between now and then. We have seen unexpected moves by teams shifting direction. If we move Booker, it can't be just for picks. It would include players. Likely not the type of players to make you contenders but certainly the type of players to make you competitive during a regular season. Hence not doormats.
 

Phrazbit

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Well so much can happen between now and then. We have seen unexpected moves by teams shifting direction. If we move Booker, it can't be just for picks. It would include players. Likely not the type of players to make you contenders but certainly the type of players to make you competitive during a regular season. Hence not doormats.

Agreed, hopefully the front office finds a few gems out there and this thing becomes sustainable.

If we do win a title I don’t think we ever trade Booker unless he forced it. He would be our Dirk Nowitzki.
 

Covert Rain

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Agreed, hopefully the front office finds a few gems out there and this thing becomes sustainable.

If we do win a title I don’t think we ever trade Booker unless he forced it. He would be our Dirk Nowitzki.
That's what I want. I want Booker to be a lifer as a fan. I just wouldn't blame him for ring chasing for his next big contract.
 

Mainstreet

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Okay, but this isn't like those swings.

This wasn't a swing, it was a flail, a desperate hack with the eyes pinched shut.

The odds that it will give us even a short term reward seem infintesimal right now, while at the same time leaving us with a crippling trade burden for the rest of the decade.

In football, it was like going for a 1st down on 4th down at your own 30 yard line in the 1st half after being down only 10 points... except much worse.
 

Covert Rain

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In football, it was like going for a 1st down on 4th down at your own 30 yard line in the 1st half after being down only 10 points... except much worse.
No it's more like on 1st down constantly running the ball instead of never throwing on first down.
 

Mainstreet

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No it's more like on 1st down constantly running the ball instead of never throwing on first down.

This wouldn't be a flail. Actually, some teams consistently move the ball by running it.
 

GatorAZ

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I fully expect that we will be sending the Nets 2-3 lotto picks.
Possibly but I think a perpetual state of mediocrity is most likely 4-5 years from now. Similarly to Ballmer likely never bottoming out… The Suns didn’t “grossly” overpay but they should’ve kept Cam or an extra pick and/or swap in the deal.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I don't see a path to contention beyond 2026, at least not a realistic one.

I think we will be in a brutal rebuilding phase and likely sending some very juicy picks in 27, 28 (the pick swap) and 29.
Could happen. I don’t see any team with Booker’s talent and recruiting ability coupled with ishbia’s pockets being terrible.
 

Covert Rain

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This wouldn't be a flail. Actually, some teams consistently move the ball by running it.
Yet if all a team did was run on 1st down it would be predictable and wouldn't be successful for very long.
 

AzStevenCal

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Possibly but I think a perpetual state of mediocrity is most likely 4-5 years from now. Similarly to Ballmer likely never bottoming out… The Suns didn’t “grossly” overpay but they should’ve kept Cam or an extra pick and/or swap in the deal.
I think you generally have to overpay to get a true star via trade. But given that he's upside down in value due to his age and availability, 4 unprotected picks along with two starters is a gross overpayment IMO. To me, a reasonable overpayment would have been the two players and no picks or 4 unprotected picks and throwaway contracts.
 

AzStevenCal

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Yet if all a team did was run on 1st down it would be predictable and wouldn't be successful for very long.
If I were Head Coach I'd build a killer front line including run blocking recievers/tight ends and then play a four down run-centric offense. I wonder how long I'd last?
 

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I think you generally have to overpay to get a true star via trade. But given that he's upside down in value due to his age and availability, 4 unprotected picks along with two starters is a gross overpayment IMO. To me, a reasonable overpayment would have been the two players and no picks or 4 unprotected picks and throwaway contracts.
My opinion is no one expected this year to be the year due to the limited games he played. A new coach stressing defense and a team set up to play together all year will be interesting to watch. After watching the team fail to win a championship for 55 years, I will take that chance. Especially with our history. We are the oldest franchise without a title.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I think you generally have to overpay to get a true star via trade. But given that he's upside down in value due to his age and availability, 4 unprotected picks along with two starters is a gross overpayment IMO. To me, a reasonable overpayment would have been the two players and no picks or 4 unprotected picks and throwaway contracts.
Neither of those gets a deal done.
 

Mainstreet

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Possibly but I think a perpetual state of mediocrity is most likely 4-5 years from now. Similarly to Ballmer likely never bottoming out… The Suns didn’t “grossly” overpay but they should’ve kept Cam or an extra pick and/or swap in the deal.

I think including Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson, Crowder and four unprotected first round picks and a swap qualifies it as a gross overpay.
 

AzStevenCal

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My opinion is no one expected this year to be the year due to the limited games he played. A new coach stressing defense and a team set up to play together all year will be interesting to watch. After watching the team fail to win a championship for 55 years, I will take that chance. Especially with our history. We are the oldest franchise without a title.
I'd take the chance too but not until I had the assets necessary to put together tha team we'd need to support our two stars. If we hadn't wasted all those lottery picks, it might have been time to overpay for a Durant. As it is, IMO all we've done is increased our needs far beyond our ability to resolve.

We have no money for signing free agents and few tradable assets (DA and maybe CP3) yet we need to add, at minimum, a starting point guard, a starting small forward, a starting center, a backup point guard, a backup shooting guard and another big man. I just don't see anyway to make that happen.
 

Chaplin

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I think including Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson, Crowder and four unprotected first round picks and a swap qualifies it as a gross overpay.
...and?

You and your group keeps repeating this mantra over and over and over and over, and I can't figure out why. Setting yourself up so you can say, "I told you so," in a year? You literally say the same thing in nearly every post. It's maddening.
 

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I'd take the chance too but not until I had the assets necessary to put together tha team we'd need to support our two stars. If we hadn't wasted all those lottery picks, it might have been time to overpay for a Durant. As it is, IMO all we've done is increased our needs far beyond our ability to resolve.

We have no money for signing free agents and few tradable assets (DA and maybe CP3) yet we need to add, at minimum, a starting point guard, a starting small forward, a starting center, a backup point guard, a backup shooting guard and another big man. I just don't see anyway to make that happen.
Not saying you are wrong but I have never seen you with this bleak outlook. I am looking forward to a positive outcome. We have screwed up so many potential titles. Just let me dream.
 

Mainstreet

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...and?

You and your group keeps repeating this mantra over and over and over and over, and I can't figure out why. Setting yourself up so you can say, "I told you so," in a year? You literally say the same thing in nearly every post. It's maddening.

I was responding to another poster if you didn't notice.
 

AzStevenCal

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Not saying you are wrong but I have never seen you with this bleak outlook. I am looking forward to a positive outcome. We have screwed up so many potential titles. Just let me dream.
I've never, not even close to ever, felt this way about a decision "my team" made. I always try to find the positive in everything but right now, the only positive I can find and cling to is that Sarver is no longer a part of this organziation. I don't mean to burst anyone's dream bubble but I just can't see a comfortable way out of the mess we've made.
 
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