NFL Combine 2020

[GuernseyCard]

Except Alford isn’t adequate either. He’s bad. Not under-average, but bad. He was bad his last year with Atlanta. Now he’s 2 years older coming off an injury.

Alford was plagued, in his last year in Atlanta, with an ankle sprain.

 

[GuernseyCard]

How many times does a guy have to ask to be traded, or make some vague remarks about the FO being "snakes in the grass" before we believe that he will leave. He is a FA at the end of the year. He is going to want to try and get paid and win a ring. I would put it at less than 10% he re-signs here, and that is only if we break the bank for him despite his declining game.


The FO will talk to him about an extension. He will tell them thanks but no thanks, and we will most likely trade him before the deadline this year to try and recoup something.

As I have said in other threads, we should be beating down Tampa's door offering them PP21 + DJ + #8 for Mike Evans and #14. Everyone wins in that deal if you think about the fact that both PP21 and DJ will not be on the roster in 2021.

So the source is your speculation in support of some trade you've conjured up.

 

[Solar7]

Except Alford isn’t adequate either. He’s bad. Not under-average, but bad. He was bad his last year with Atlanta. Now he’s 2 years older coming off an injury.

That entire team struggled that year. I know you think your opinion on a player is the only valid one ever, but the Arizona Cardinals felt he was good enough to pay a starting contract to, and have outright stated he is in our plans for this year. So, one way or the other, get your mind prepared for Robert Alford playing significant snaps.

Jesus Christ, unless we were already loaded at CB(we’re clearly not), I couldn’t imagine passing on Okudah under any circumstance. I wouldn’t have even imagined Solar being against it, but I imagined wrong I guess.

We have an eight time pro-bowler who played very strong in the final games of the season, and a young CB we just invested the top pick of the second round of, while claiming he was in our top 5 of all draftable players. Alford is adequate. Gotta accept at some point that you need to spread around the wealth to get better.

???
There is precisely one DT in this draft one would take over the #1 rated CB and the chance of him being available are very slim.

Again, I'll continue to repeat - this is based off of the state of the team today. If the Cardinals go out and resolve the majority of our holes, fine, take Okudah. If in April we don't have an ILB, DT, or RT of note, and Simmons/Brown/Wirfs/etc. are there, and we have them similarly graded, take the position of need. If this team weren't so atrocious and completely barren at certain positions and had anyone worth starting at a semi-adequate level, I'd be all for Okudah.

I don't know why we're continuing to argue this. You guys aren't going to change my mind, and I'm not going to change yours.

 

[Solar7]

I disagree. Their secondary is horrid. Their RB situation is very bad. They need a young QB, and the way things are looking, there might not be one there at #14. Even if they sign Rivers or Brady, they need someone in the wings.

They led the league in passing yards last year. They have Godwin as a #1, who is going to need to be paid during this season and even got something out of Perriman last season.

Name a winning team that has two 15+ million per year WR's?

Find a better deal that gets them an All-Pro CB, a starting RB (who BA has mentioned at least 3 times this week at the combine), and a chance at their QBOTF.

If they could walk out of the first round with PP21, DJ, and Herbert or Love....and the ability to afford Chris Godwin....I think they would take it.

It's a win for the Cards because Mike Evans is exactly what we need, and we can still get a very solid player at #14...maybe Wirfs or Kinlaw.

Arians hates young QBs, so I strongly doubt they end up drafting a kid in the first round. They'll bring back Jameis or get someone like Rivers, who has been rumored to go there. RB is the easiest position to fill in the draft and get immediate production from, plus there's cheaper available RBs in free agency (Drake is even an example).

Godwin is their #2, and if they want to keep leading the league in passing yardage, they will want to keep both. Perriman is a free agent. Evans is better than Godwin, and will be cheaper than Godwin over the period of time Arians will be coaching there.

Regardless, even if their secondary sucks, how is signing Chris Godwin going to be EASIER if they take on DJ's contract bloat and ALSO have to re-sign Patrick Peterson to a big deal?

All of these suggestions aren't really thinking through the short term nature of Arians' employment.

 

[SoonerLou]

Perfect! Let's hope he drops to 8. This guy is 100% legit.

Bucky has us taking Wirfs over Okudah

 

[DVontel]

That entire team struggled that year. I know you think your opinion on a player is the only valid one ever, but the Arizona Cardinals felt he was good enough to pay a starting contract to, and have outright stated he is in our plans for this year. So, one way or the other, get your mind prepared for Robert Alford playing significant snaps.


We have an eight time pro-bowler who played very strong in the final games of the season, and a young CB we just invested the top pick of the second round of, while claiming he was in our top 5 of all draftable players. Alford is adequate. Gotta accept at some point that you need to spread around the wealth to get better.


Again, I'll continue to repeat - this is based off of the state of the team today. If the Cardinals go out and resolve the majority of our holes, fine, take Okudah. If in April we don't have an ILB, DT, or RT of note, and Simmons/Brown/Wirfs/etc. are there, and we have them similarly graded, take the position of need. If this team weren't so atrocious and completely barren at certain positions and had anyone worth starting at a semi-adequate level, I'd be all for Okudah.

I don't know why we're continuing to argue this. You guys aren't going to change my mind, and I'm not going to change yours.

So, since some of his teammates struggled, he had to struggle, too? Hell, our team has been struggling the past 4 seasons, but you know who hasn’t? Chandler Jones. Also, you mean the same Arizona Cardinals that is GM’d by the guy you relentlessly slander & want removed? That same Arizona Cardinals?

We have a soon to be 30 year old has-been that played equal amount of bad games than good games. I don’t give a damn how many Pro Bowls he made. He clearly didn’t & will continue to not play like a Pro Bowler as time goes.


Gotta accept at some point that elite young talent, especially at one of the most impactful positions in the sport, matters. Instead of having a strength at one unit & middling everywhere else, lets just be a little bit better than middling everywhere. That’s cool.

 

[TheCardFan]

Bucky has us taking Wirfs over Okudah

In all seriousness...how many players are a "lock" to go in the top 8?

I would imagine its Burrows, Young, and Okudah.

I think Simmons is right there as well but not as solid as the top 3.

The rest makes the draft very interesting.

Could be Tua but maybe not. Maybe 3 QB's...maybe 1?

How may OT's?

Some team will probably draft Brown.

 

[Solar7]

So, since some of his teammates struggled, he had to struggle, too? Hell, our team has been struggling the past 4 seasons, but you know who hasn’t? Chandler Jones. Also, you mean the same Arizona Cardinals that is GM’d by the guy you relentlessly slander & want removed? That same Arizona Cardinals?

We have a soon to be 30 year old has-been that played equal amount of bad games than good games. I don’t give a damn how many Pro Bowls he made. He clearly didn’t & will continue to not play like a Pro Bowler as time goes.


Gotta accept at some point that elite young talent, especially at one of the most impactful positions in the sport, matters. Instead of having a strength at one unit & middling everywhere else, lets just be a little bit better than middling everywhere. That’s cool.

Corner is pretty much the #1 spot that the rest of your team needs to do something to help you out. Can't cover forever. If you're not getting any pressure up front, eventually that WR is coming free.

Yeah, I want the GM out, but it is what it is, we're going to be counting on Alford this year. You can keep saying he's "bad," but you also think quarterbacks work on a binary scale of elite or garbage.

And again, your evaluation of Patrick Peterson is just that: your own. Tons of other people on this board agree Patrick still has it, and want him here longer. You hate him, we get it. You also hate Alford. We get it. The way you talk, you'd think they were 7th round draft picks that had no business starting on any team in the NFL.

It's not about saying elite talent doesn't matter. Of course it does. If there is comparable elite talent available, you have to choose, because you can't have both.

I love that you're saying "strength at one unit and middling everywhere else" when the defense isn't middling, it's the worst in the NFL, and you want to get worse than worst in those areas so three guys who don't play the run can cover the weaker parts of our division's rosters, the receivers.

 

[GatorAZ]

Don’t ask me why Jeremiah keeps referring to Wilks as a guard but Wills a tackle. I would guess it’s Big 10 slow lineman type stigma but that should’ve ended after Wirfs combine performance.

 

[DVontel]

Corner is pretty much the #1 spot that the rest of your team needs to do something to help you out. Can't cover forever. If you're not getting any pressure up front, eventually that WR is coming free.

Yeah, I want the GM out, but it is what it is, we're going to be counting on Alford this year. You can keep saying he's "bad," but you also think quarterbacks work on a binary scale of elite or garbage.

And again, your evaluation of Patrick Peterson is just that: your own. Tons of other people on this board agree Patrick still has it, and want him here longer. You hate him, we get it. You also hate Alford. We get it. The way you talk, you'd think they were 7th round draft picks that had no business starting on any team in the NFL.

It's not about saying elite talent doesn't matter. Of course it does. If there is comparable elite talent available, you have to choose, because you can't have both.

I love that you're saying "strength at one unit and middling everywhere else" when the defense isn't middling, it's the worst in the NFL, and you want to get worse than worst in those areas so three guys who don't play the run can cover the weaker parts of our division's rosters, the receivers.

No, not really. Look at the Eagles. Pretty good front 4, but store clerks at Cornerback. Luckily, the division was bad last year, but they pretty much underachieved relative to their talent level. Having a good pass rush is in fact good, but how much does it really matter when the WR can beat you off the ball in a instant which brings in the quick pass?

You are already known for having horrific takes so I’m just not going to go there.

I mean, duh? It’s my own evaluation. Whose else is it supposed to be? Tons of people on this board wanted to trade Day 2 picks for Leonard Damn Williams. Tons of people on this board wanted to keep Rosen. This board is far from perfect. That includes me. Also, stop saying I “hate” people when critiquing them. Grow up.

If one like a Simmons & Okudah holds more positional value, then you go to impact value. It’s obvious which position holds more impact in that regard. Not to mention, Simmons doesn’t even have a 100% certain position, yet. Shivering just thinking about Vance struggling to use him. At least with Okudah, he’ll thrive in any scheme.

I want to get better at a position that arguably holds the most impact on defense. CBs that can shut one side of the field down are rare & Okudah holds that ability to do so.

 

[Solar7]

You are already known for having horrific takes so I’m just not going to go there.

My takes are horrific according to who? You and Krang, because I'm not a Kyler Murray supporter? Last I checked, any of my "takes" are criticizing a team that hasn't had a winning season in four years.

Also, stop saying I “hate” people when critiquing them. Grow up.

If you want me to stop saying you "hate" people, stop calling players in the statistical top ten of NFL history "garbage," or harping on guys like Alford as "bad" when they're not. It's not my fault that you use extreme terms that make it seem like you hate guys. I genuinely only say you hate players when that's what I thought you actually meant.

Anyways, I'm done with the Okudah argument. I don't think anyone's having any fun reading it, we fundamentally disagree on roster construction. We'll see if it even becomes a possibility to debate as the draft gets closer and team needs are clearer.

 

[football karma]

Don’t ask me why Jeremiah keeps referring to Wilks as a guard but Wills a tackle. I would guess it’s Big 10 slow lineman type stigma but that should’ve ended after Wirfs combine performance.

From the link below:

"His [Wirf's] build is unlike any lineman's I can remember; he has an upper body that could pass for a tight end's and two tree trunks for thighs. Any talk of moving him to guard needs to be shut down immediately. He laid a strong claim to being the first lineman taken come April."

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2020...-risers-and-fallers-from-the-ol-and-rb-drills

 

[football karma]

again, for emphasis: the top of this draft is un-Keimable

heck, at 12 you can pick a really good player

so its not a question of IF the Cards get a foundational player at #8, its just a question of what position that player plays.

its made for a carefree kinda draft -- its like walking into a bar with 12 awesome beers on tap. Do you really care what they pour you?

#40 is where it gets interesting

 

[AZman5103]

So the source is your speculation in support of some trade you've conjured up.

No, my source is that PP21 has asked to be traded at least once that we know of, and has had multiple instances of deleting pictures and references to the team, and also making vague comments about how hes been treated.

He is an UFA at the end of the season. What % are you thinking that he signs another deal here and stays long term. I would put it at less than 10% right now. I would put it at over 50% that we trade him before the end of the season to try and get something in return.

 

[Solar7]

No, my source is that PP21 has asked to be traded at least once that we know of, and has had multiple instances of deleting pictures and references to the team, and also making vague comments about how hes been treated.

He is an UFA at the end of the season. What % are you thinking that he signs another deal here and stays long term. I would put it at less than 10% right now. I would put it at over 50% that we trade him before the end of the season to try and get something in return.

https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2020/02/16/patrick-peterson-contract-extension-arizona-cardinals/
Two weeks ago we were talking extension with him. In July of 2019 he said he wanted to be a Cardinal "for life." That's a much better chance than 10% to me.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

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Give me

An offensive lineman jumping 36?!? Wow.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

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Wirfs is just a total freak. Don’t find many of those on the oline.

 

[AZman5103]

Arians hates young QBs, so I strongly doubt they end up drafting a kid in the first round. They'll bring back Jameis or get someone like Rivers, who has been rumored to go there. RB is the easiest position to fill in the draft and get immediate production from, plus there's cheaper available RBs in free agency (Drake is even an example).

Godwin is their #2, and if they want to keep leading the league in passing yardage, they will want to keep both. Perriman is a free agent. Evans is better than Godwin, and will be cheaper than Godwin over the period of time Arians will be coaching there.

Regardless, even if their secondary sucks, how is signing Chris Godwin going to be EASIER if they take on DJ's contract bloat and ALSO have to re-sign Patrick Peterson to a big deal?

All of these suggestions aren't really thinking through the short term nature of Arians' employment.

Again I disagree. Its actually perfect for the short term nature of Arian's employment. He wants to try and win as much as possible in the next 2-3 years. They are not bringing back Jameis.

I could see the FO willing to take on the financial burden of DJ and PP21 because it makes the team much better in the short term, with the agreement that Arians takes and develops a young QB behind Rivers or Brady. If they are willing to go all in for 2 years, they could get a stud at #8 and draft a later round QB, like Jake Fromm in the 2nd?

If Godwin puts up another 1300 yard season, he is going to command WR1 money, which is 15+ million. They simply cannot afford Evans and Godwin on those deals, so one of them is going to move.

The kicked here is DJ. BA wants him, he makes their team much better, but his contract is bad at this point. I would throw in a 4th to make the deal happen.

Look, I know it's a longshot, and most likely wont happen...but it's a good deal for both teams. To act like it's a crazy trade is wrong. It's one of the few trades involving Pro-Bowlers that actually makes sense for both teams. I would be willing to bet that either Evans is moved for a big haul, or Godwin is moved for a lesser haul by the trade deadline (unless TB is going to the playoffs).

 

[AZman5103]

https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2020/02/16/patrick-peterson-contract-extension-arizona-cardinals/
Two weeks ago we were talking extension with him. In July of 2019 he said he wanted to be a Cardinal "for life." That's a much better chance than 10% to me.

Ok. We can certainly agree to disagree. He is going to demand ridiculous money to stay with the Cards, if he even is willing to entertain it at all. He has been leaking info to Deon about wanting to be traded for 2 straight years.

#1 Im not willing to pay him elite CB money over 4-5 years when his play is slipping and he is a malcontent.

#2 I think he will want to move on to a team that is much closer to a SB that we are currently.

#3 He has issues with the Cards...for whatever reason. Remember, HE was pissed at the FO this year for not moving his money around so he could get more during his 6 (not the regular 4) game suspension for PD use. Called them "snakes in the grass". Someone who wants to retire a Cardinal doesn't leak trade demands, publicly ask for a trade, get suspended 6 games and be pissed at the organization for it, and then come back and play with little to no effort for 5 out of the 10 games he played this year.

Im sticking to my thought that he doesn't resign here, and that there is a better chance we hear about him being traded during the draft than of hearing about a new contract.

 

[Solar7]

Again I disagree. Its actually perfect for the short term nature of Arian's employment. He wants to try and win as much as possible in the next 2-3 years. They are not bringing back Jameis.

I could see the FO willing to take on the financial burden of DJ and PP21 because it makes the team much better in the short term, with the agreement that Arians takes and develops a young QB behind Rivers or Brady. If they are willing to go all in for 2 years, they could get a stud at #8 and draft a later round QB, like Jake Fromm in the 2nd?

If Godwin puts up another 1300 yard season, he is going to command WR1 money, which is 15+ million. They simply cannot afford Evans and Godwin on those deals, so one of them is going to move.

The kicked here is DJ. BA wants him, he makes their team much better, but his contract is bad at this point. I would throw in a 4th to make the deal happen.

Look, I know it's a longshot, and most likely wont happen...but it's a good deal for both teams. To act like it's a crazy trade is wrong. It's one of the few trades involving Pro-Bowlers that actually makes sense for both teams. I would be willing to bet that either Evans is moved for a big haul, or Godwin is moved for a lesser haul by the trade deadline (unless TB is going to the playoffs).

If Godwin puts up another 1300 yard season, he is going to command WR1 money, which is 15+ million. They simply cannot afford Evans and Godwin on those deals, so one of them is going to move.

They have $84 million in cap space right now. They could re-sign Godwin right now and front load the extension. In 2021 they have $198 million in cap space. They can afford Godwin, no issues.

Why trade for 30 year old Patrick Peterson or a struggling David Johnson when you can sign Byron Jones or Chris Harris or something, and draft a young RB with tons of potential on the cheap?

I just don't get it. I also don't think this team gets better by moving Patrick Peterson.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Simmons just ran a 4.39... he’s not going to be there at #8


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wow. A lot of freaky athletes in this draft.

 

[AZman5103]

If Godwin puts up another 1300 yard season, he is going to command WR1 money, which is 15+ million. They simply cannot afford Evans and Godwin on those deals, so one of them is going to move.

They have $84 million in cap space right now. They could re-sign Godwin right now and front load the extension. In 2021 they have $198 million in cap space. They can afford Godwin, no issues.

Why trade for 30 year old Patrick Peterson or a struggling David Johnson when you can sign Byron Jones or Chris Harris or something, and draft a young RB with tons of potential on the cheap?

I just don't get it. I also don't think this team gets better by moving Patrick Peterson.

I understand. Im just saying that I think that trade peaks their interest in just the right way to get it done. They take Peterson and DJ because BA and Bowles know them and how to use them exactly.

Moving up to #8 gives them the chance to draft a QB like Herbert or Love and let him sit under Rivers or Brady, who have a max of 2 years left. If they don't move up they won't get either, and maybe that's fine with them...but I'm guessing they want someone.

They would pay a price to move up from 14 to 8. They would pay a price to get PP21 from us. They might be able to get a deal where we take on some of the DJ money, but they are still trading something for him....Or they could move Mike Evans and get all of that. I get that Evans is an elite WR, but they haven't won with him and could look to shake things up. All I'm saying is that if this trade went down, I think both teams are improved. As a Cards fan you have to consider that there is a real possibility neither PP21 or DJ is on the roster in 2021, and what we could get in return for them. Solving our WR issue would be pretty big.

 

[GatorAZ]

Wow. A lot of freaky athletes in this draft.

Simmons still scares me but...

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[BritCard]

In what world is he average? He's an All-Pro player, and still very young. None of the guys in the draft have proven a thing.

He made All Pro once his rookie year when they gave him a tonne of help from the RG. Ask any Titans fan and they will tell you he's decent but not worth that money.

After that year 71 PFF grade in 17, 67 PFF grade in 18. Then in his contract year upped his game and had a 78 year.

 

[GuernseyCard]

No, my source is that PP21 has asked to be traded at least once that we know of, and has had multiple instances of deleting pictures and references to the team, and also making vague comments about how hes been treated.

He is an UFA at the end of the season. What % are you thinking that he signs another deal here and stays long term. I would put it at less than 10% right now. I would put it at over 50% that we trade him before the end of the season to try and get something in return.

Made up percentages don't strengthen an argument. It's every bit as likely that he signs an extension or that the Cards use the Tag next off season, if his play warrants.