Noah to work out for Suns

[elindholm]

Yup...which adds credibility that he was coveting Amare...a guy who could contribute immediately.

Is anyone surprised that McHale would ask for Stoudemire? Seriously? How can this be evidence of anything, other than that McHale isn't a complete vegetable?

Did you know that the Sixers asked for Kevin Johnson in 1992? Do you know what happened?

 

[devilalum]

Is anyone surprised that McHale would ask for Stoudemire? Seriously? How can this be evidence of anything, other than that McHale isn't a complete vegetable?

Did you know that the Sixers asked for Kevin Johnson in 1992? Do you know what happened?

The Suns said no for 3 weeks and the Sixers finally agreed to take Hornecek instead.

 

[elindholm]

The Suns said no for 3 weeks and the Sixers finally agreed to take Hornecek instead.

Wow!

So let me make sure I understand this: You're saying that, when a team trades away a disgruntled superstar, they don't always get exactly what they want in return?

That can't be possible, can it?

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

So if we work our magic right we could get garnett for banks and an egg mcmuffin!

 

[HooverDam]

So if we work our magic right we could get garnett for banks and an egg mcmuffin!

Robert Sarver sells the egg mcmuffin for a future pick from the Dollar Menu to save money though.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Robert Sarver sells the egg mcmuffin for a future pick from the Dollar Menu to save money though.

that was sarver's intent, but instead, while watching cartoons one saturday morning shawn marion actually eats the egg mcmuffin for breakfast and oliver miller inadvertently eats marcus banks during a commercial.

 

[HooverDam]

that was sarver's intent, but instead, while watching cartoons one saturday morning shawn marion actually eats the egg mcmuffin for breakfast and oliver miller inadvertently eats marcus banks during a commercial.

Even more tragically, after being told it contained crack, Richard Dumas drowned in the toilet while trying to retrieve Millers stool which only contained bits of Marcus Banks.

The stool has now signed with Charlotte and is being hailed at the presser as a 'good defender' and viable back up option at the point for Raymond Felton.

 

[BC867]

that was sarver's intent, but instead, while watching cartoons one saturday morning shawn marion actually eats the egg mcmuffin for breakfast and oliver miller inadvertently eats marcus banks during a commercial.

Funny stuff. You, too, HooverDam. Thanks for lightening up a situation that's keeping many Suns fans on edge.

 

[azirish]

Eric, do you really think Sarver is going to take on KG's contract, particularly while giving up Amare?

I'm not trying to be provocative. I'm serious. At some point a contract of that magnitude radically distorts the finances of a team already in serious LT trouble. In 2008-09 KG gets $24 million or else he can opt out and leave the team.

The Suns situation is no different than the Wolves except that to get KG the Suns have to give up a much more reasonably priced player on a long term contract.

 

[elindholm]

Eric, do you really think Sarver is going to take on KG's contract, particularly while giving up Amare?

Not as a replacement for Stoudemire, no, I don't. Where might you have gotten the idea that I did?

The Suns situation is no different than the Wolves except that to get KG the Suns have to give up a much more reasonably priced player on a long term contract.

Garnett's contract is for only two more years, the same as Marion's. What happens in the summer of 2009 is too far down the road to worry about.

The Suns can't compete for a title this year without eating a ton of luxury tax. I don't know whether Sarver is going to pay the bill or not, but it really has nothing to do with a Garnett trade. The payroll for 2007-08 is what it is.

 

[azirish]

Sorry if I misunderstood. I have long since given up on a Marion based deal for KG, so in IMHO it is either Amare or nothing. In that scernio, I vote for "noting".

 

[elindholm]

Sorry if I misunderstood. I have long since given up on a Marion based deal for KG, so in IMHO it is either Amare or nothing. In that scernio, I vote for "noting".

As would I, unless the Suns were to get a ton of additional compensation, which I can't imagine what it would be. It would have to start with the #7, but even that probably wouldn't be enough, given that the Suns would also have to give up Thomas in order to make the salary numbers work.

Since you evidently haven't been following the threads, let me summarize. You may want to bookmark this post for future reference, so that you can be more informed in subsequent discussions:

Marion directly for Garnett went up in flames when the Suns lost the draft lottery. The idea was revived when Boston showed an interest in Marion and dangled the #5 pick. Based on the density of rumors flying and the partial confirmation by Ainge, Kerr, and Garnett's agent, it seems very likely that a possible three-way deal was discussed, with the Suns getting Garnett, Boston getting Marion, and the Wolves getting the #5 and some additional pieces, one of which probably would have been Barbosa. Whether any of the three sides would have eventually blinked is unclear, but the idea died when Marion said he would refuse to play for Boston beyond the coming season.

So that's what most of us have been talking about this week.

 

[azirish]

Oh I've been following the threads (sort of, they do end up sounding the same after a while).

What I've been saying is that I never believed the three way deal with Marion to Boston had a chance even prior to Marion's refusal. Yes there was a lot of chatter between the teams, but the only confirmed things I was hearing was that McHale wanted Amare and the Suns refused.

The other official rumors were that the Celtics were offering a straight up deal including Jefferson, which McHale turned down.

Did McHale formally turn down a three way deal which would send Barbosa and stuff (picks and expiring contracts) for KG? All I've seen is speculation about that deal since it quickly became clear that Marion was not interested in going to Boston. But only Suns fans seem to thiink a deal based on sending Barbosa is a better offer than one sending Jefferson; so it is not surprising this is not been followed up on.

IMHO, if the only issue in that three way trade was Marion, the Suns would permit Ainge to talk with Shawn directly to see if they could work it out. However, there is no point if the deal was killed by McHale.

I don't know why it is so hard to accept that the only deal McHale wants is one for Amare. Nothing I've read indicates that anything else would do.

I realize that there is a belief that McHale will be FORCED to make a deal, but IMHO this assumption is flawed. It requires McHale to believe that KG will would give up his last year at $24 million for free agency and would jump to a team that is has well over $10 million in cap space.

It's the same free agency problem that all superstars face. Do you want money or to go where you want? No contender can afford KG baring a "sign and trade" deal unless he leaves $18 million on the table. In short, McHale may reasonably believe he is not any worse off by waiting than dealing now.

The "discussions are continuing" reports are not really a sign that something is going to happen related to KG. IMHO, it is more likely they are related to secondary pieces such at the Wolve's pick, whether the Wolves would make a deal for Banks (he played well for them), or some other kind of deal.

 

[elindholm]

The other official rumors were that the Celtics were offering a straight up deal including Jefferson, which McHale turned down.

The reports, for what they are worth, was that it was a deal for Jefferson and the #5, and Garnett threw a fit because he didn't want to be reunited with Szczerbiak and wanted to be part of the discussions no matter where he was going.

Did McHale formally turn down a three way deal which would send Barbosa and stuff (picks and expiring contracts) for KG? All I've seen is speculation about that deal since it quickly became clear that Marion was not interested in going to Boston. But only Suns fans seem to thiink a deal based on sending Barbosa is a better offer than one sending Jefferson

No, Suns fans think that a deal Garnett will approve is a better offer than one he won't.

IMHO, if the only issue in that three way trade was Marion, the Suns would permit Ainge to talk with Shawn directly to see if they could work it out.

We don't know whether that has happened or not.

I realize that there is a belief that McHale will be FORCED to make a deal, but IMHO this assumption is flawed. It requires McHale to believe that KG will would give up his last year at $24 million for free agency and would jump to a team that is has well over $10 million in cap space.

True, it does make that assumption, and the assumption may be flawed. On the other hand, Garnett is in an unusual situation in that he already made twice as much money as the typical NBA superstar. So if anyone would be willing to leave a pile of money on the table to look for a better situation, he'd be a strong candidate.

No contender can afford KG baring a "sign and trade" deal unless he leaves $18 million on the table.

I don't know where you got that number from, but yes, Garnett would have to give up some money to go to another team.

In short, McHale may reasonably believe he is not any worse off by waiting than dealing now.

I've made that point too, in one of the threads you claim to have "sort of" followed. He may indeed reasonably believe that. However, he may also reasonably believe that the time is now. It is extremely presumptious for either of us to claim to be reading his mind.

Most of this board says only that things are possible; you say they are impossible. Given that you've couched all of your analytical language in halfway terms like "might" and "maybe," why are you unable to accept the obvious conclusion, which is that McHale is between a rock and a hard place and no one can really predict what he's going to do?

The "discussions are continuing" reports are not really a sign that something is going to happen related to KG.

The Garnett chatter, all over the internet, is still at an unusally high level. Rumors by themselves don't mean anything, but I think it's pretty short-sighted to declare the case closed.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

One of the first things Kerr said when he got the new position was that he wasnt going to do anything drastic. I call an amare trade drastic. Aside from all the superfans that frequent message boards, the majority of regular fans would burn his house down if he traded amare. I really dont see it happening.

 

[azirish]

Did I say "impossible"?

Eric, I'm not sure we have much disagreement. We disagree on what (if anything) is in McHale's head and certainly disagree over KG's financial decisions.

BTW, my $18 million number is the difference between what KG's expected to make in 2008-09 and the MLE (if anything the number is likely to be higher).

Yes, he could afford to leave the money on the table, but history is not really all that promising. He took a significant pay cut when he signed this last deal. He dropped from $28 million to a starting price of $16 million. It's not like he went down below $10 million which would have given the Wolves the where-with-all to do more than find a few aging guys for one last push.

It is really hard for any of us to understand this kind of money. You'd expect some sanity about the effect these huge salaries have on their teams, but they have an awful lot of people from agents to family to hangers on who care about the money a lot. It's only when a guy is well past his prime that winning seems to become the big priority and not how the player stacks up to his contemporaries in terms of salary.

Is there any evidence that KG would do a give back on his next contract? I don't know and I don't think you do either. We agree he should, but that's not the same thing.