Noah to work out for Suns

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Gaddabout,

Have you heard anything about the suns getting Pau Gasol from Memphis?

My very tight lipped insider friend (two days ago) says that there are a lot of different things happening with the suns as far as moving up in the draft, and making trades. He then said the suns are probably not going to get KG, but a chance for Gasol.

I remember seeing an article about gasol about 2 weeks ago saying he is happy staying in memphis.

I really think gasol is a bad fit in the suns style.

 

[BC867]

I really think Gasol is a bad fit in the suns style.

The Suns style faltered in the playoffs. It's time to expand our thinking.

Hopefully, Steve Kerr will and Mike D'Antoni will follow.

 

[elindholm]

The Suns style faltered in the playoffs. It's time to expand our thinking.

It's not like Gasol has been a playoff dynamo either. Expand in another direction.

 

[sharkman]

The Suns style faltered in the playoffs. It's time to expand our thinking.

Hopefully, Steve Kerr will and Mike D'Antoni will follow.

???
Barbosa injured his hand against LA...and subsequently went 2-17 from 3 point range against SA...(he averaged 18.1 points during the regular season and shot .434% from behind the arc)...no way a healthy Barbosa goes 0-12 for the last 4 games of the series...

...a healthy Barbosa and the Suns win the series...or...Duncan suspended along with Amare and Diaw...Suns win game 5 and get game 7 at home.

I wouldn't call that "the Suns style faltered".

 

[elindholm]

...a healthy Barbosa and the Suns win the series...or...Duncan suspended along with Amare and Diaw...Suns win game 5 and get game 7 at home.

I wouldn't call that "the Suns style faltered".

The Suns' style is to try to be 1% better than their toughest competition, then hope nothing goes wrong. So yes, it faltered.

 

[F-Dog]

The Suns' style is to try to be 1% better than their toughest competition, then hope nothing goes wrong. So yes, it faltered.

The Spurs seemed to have some success with that same philosophy, though.

 

[BC867]

???
Barbosa injured his hand against LA...and subsequently went 2-17 from 3 point range against SA...(he averaged 18.1 points during the regular season and shot .434% from behind the arc)...no way a healthy Barbosa goes 0-12 for the last 4 games of the series...

...a healthy Barbosa and the Suns win the series...or...Duncan suspended along with Amare and Diaw...Suns win game 5 and get game 7 at home.

I wouldn't call that "the Suns style faltered".

Those things could have happened and did happen.

A tweener-scorer off the bench was injured. And a commissioner sided with the bullies, not the bullied (as it's been forever in the post-season).

And the Suns faltered.

There will be injuries to backups next year. There will be favoritism to the nice-guy teams in the post-season.

Do you think the Suns doing the same thing over and over will lead to different results? There's a definition for that.

 

[elindholm]

The Spurs seemed to have some success with that same philosophy, though.

Considering that the Spurs lost a grand total of four games in the playoffs, I'd say their margin was a bit greater than 1%.

 

[sharkman]

Those things could have happened and did happen.

A tweener-scorer off the bench was injured. And a commissioner sided with the bullies, not the bullied (as it's been forever in the post-season).

And the Suns faltered.

There will be injuries to backups next year. There will be favoritism to the nice-guy teams in the post-season.

Do you think the Suns doing the same thing over and over will lead to different results? There's a definition for that.

Again...the Suns made some mistakes...had their 6th man injured...had some bad luck...none of which has anything to do with their fast paced style of play. Ask the Lakers (showtime) and the Celtics if you can win with that style.

We were the second best team in the League...that hardly calls for an overhaul...just a fine tune.

 

[F-Dog]

Considering that the Spurs lost a grand total of four games in the playoffs, I'd say their margin was a bit greater than 1%.

The Spurs lost to Dallas last year and were wracked by terrible matchup problems that whole series. So what did they do last offseason? Nothing substantive.

With Horry even worse than before, they had no answers to a full-sized shooting PF this season. It's not any of their doing that they didn't face Dallas or Detroit this time around.



And, of course, they should have lost to the Suns, too.

 

[elindholm]

The Spurs lost to Dallas last year and were wracked by terrible matchup problems that whole series. So what did they do last offseason? Nothing substantive.

Nothing except wait for Duncan to get healthy. I think they knew all along that they were the best team in the league. They would have beaten Dallas, even banged up, if not for Ginobili's uncharacteristic mental blunder.

And, of course, they should have lost to the Suns, too.

"Should have" is for losers. The Spurs went 20-4 in the playoffs, including 10-1 to close it out. That's the mark of a team that knows what it's doing. Historically, even when the Suns have gone deep in the playoffs, they've needed long series to do it.

 

[F-Dog]

"Should have" is for losers.

Except when the it's the Spurs, apparently.

The Suns are waiting for Amare and Barbosa to get healthy right now.

 

[elindholm]

Except when the it's the Spurs, apparently.

The Suns are waiting for Amare and Barbosa to get healthy right now.

Come on, you're smarter than that. The difference is that the Spurs' core had already won titles in 2003 and 2005 and gone to the Finals in 2004. And when they're on, they blow teams away. They don't pull stunts like letting the Lakers or Clippers force them to Game 7. The best the Suns have done with this group is eke their way to the conference finals by the thinnest of margins against generally crappy opponents, then lay an egg upon getting there.

 

[F-Dog]

Come on, you're smarter than that. The difference is that the Spurs' core had already won titles in 2003 and 2005 and gone to the Finals in 2004.

Oh, I think the real difference is that they won in 2007.

If they hadn't, the fans in Spurs country would be pointing out to each other that the team went into last offseason needing a backup PG and a long agile defender, and wound up filling those roles with Jacque Vaughn and nobody. The reason for that was not some mystical confidence, but an owner who absolutely refuses to pay the luxury tax.

The Spurs have always been happy to turn out "just" a contender and see what happens...they dumped Stephen Jackson after winning in 2003 (over a couple of million dollars) and promptly went on to lose the next year, etc.

And when they're on, they blow teams away. They don't pull stunts like letting the Lakers or Clippers force them to Game 7. The best the Suns have done with this group is eke their way to the conference finals by the thinnest of margins against generally crappy opponents, then lay an egg upon getting there.

The Suns have been healthy for two series against lower-level opponents in the last three years, and they swept Memphis and beat the Lakers in five games. Those other series, their margin had been taken away from them before they got there.

Also, I think this year was their best playoff performance. They beat the Lakers convincingly enough to send them into a tailspin, and even with their celebrated bad luck, they were three points away from forcing a game 7 (at home) against SA. I think the Suns might have done all right against Utah and Cleveland too if they'd been given the opportunity.

 

[azirish]

This whole "if they were better they'd have won" so let's blow up the team theory doesn't actually impress.

It's very simple. IF the Suns could somehow get KG for Marion and KT, they win it. Considering that McHale is not going to do that deal, I don't think it's reasonable to keep pretending it's Kerr's fault or Marion's fault or anybody else's fault other than McHale's fault.

Replacing Marion with Amare in that deal (it has to include KT or Marion to work financially) is just not going to make the Suns better. KG is great, but he won't replace the only inside guys the Suns have.

 

[elindholm]

It's very simple. IF the Suns could somehow get KG for Marion and KT, they win it. Considering that McHale is not going to do that deal, I don't think it's reasonable to keep pretending it's Kerr's fault or Marion's fault or anybody else's fault other than McHale's fault.

Have you not been following the rumors, or do you simply refuse to believe any of them? Apparently the Wolves and Celtics were close to Garnett for Jefferson, the #5, a minor talent, and cap relief (Ratliff) until Garnett balked. So then the Suns swooped in to try to make it a three-way, replacing Jefferson with Barbosa (probably) and using Marion to pry the #5 from Boston.

Jefferson is big and Barbosa is small, but their value is probably about comparable, especially given Barbosa's contract. So if Minnesota would take Jefferson and the #5 for Garnett, there's no reason to presume that they wouldn't take Barbosa and the #5, especially given that the Suns could also throw in an additional pick or two. Between the #5 and the #7, Minnesota would have no problem coming up with an attractive big (or two) to build around.

Except ... Marion killed the whole thing. Case closed.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Have you not been following the rumors, or do you simply refuse to believe any of them? Apparently the Wolves and Celtics were close to Garnett for Jefferson, the #5, a minor talent, and cap relief (Ratliff) until Garnett balked. So then the Suns swooped in to try to make it a three-way, replacing Jefferson with Barbosa (probably) and using Marion to pry the #5 from Boston.

Jefferson is big and Barbosa is small, but their value is probably about comparable, especially given Barbosa's contract. So if Minnesota would take Jefferson and the #5 for Garnett, there's no reason to presume that they wouldn't take Barbosa and the #5, especially given that the Suns could also throw in an additional pick or two. Between the #5 and the #7, Minnesota would have no problem coming up with an attractive big (or two) to build around.

Except ... Marion killed the whole thing. Case closed.

damnit marion!

 

[Mainstreet]

damnit marion!

I don't even know why the Suns drafted such a player.

 

[Gaddabout]

I don't even know why the Suns drafted such a player.

That draft day is a hazy one for me, but I seem to recall the Suns wanting Jonathan Bender pretty bad and maybe tried to trade up to get him.

 

[azirish]

Have you not been following the rumors, or do you simply refuse to believe any of them? Apparently the Wolves and Celtics were close to Garnett for Jefferson, the #5, a minor talent, and cap relief (Ratliff) until Garnett balked. So then the Suns swooped in to try to make it a three-way, replacing Jefferson with Barbosa (probably) and using Marion to pry the #5 from Boston.

Jefferson is big and Barbosa is small, but their value is probably about comparable, especially given Barbosa's contract. So if Minnesota would take Jefferson and the #5 for Garnett, there's no reason to presume that they wouldn't take Barbosa and the #5, especially given that the Suns could also throw in an additional pick or two. Between the #5 and the #7, Minnesota would have no problem coming up with an attractive big (or two) to build around.

Except ... Marion killed the whole thing. Case closed.

Is "not believing" the same as "refusing to believe"?

I do not believe the Celtics deal alone would have gone through nor do I believe the Barbosa for Jefferson substitution would have gone through. It comes back to the same basic problem, McHale is not looking to do a cap dump.

You can claim he's looking to do that, but everything I've read indicates he wants a value trade. Going after Amare at a vastly lower salary is a value trade. Going after Barbosa and expiring contracts is a cap dump.

 

[sharkman]

Is "not believing" the same as "refusing to believe"?

I do not believe the Celtics deal alone would have gone through nor do I believe the Barbosa for Jefferson substitution would have gone through. It comes back to the same basic problem, McHale is not looking to do a cap dump.

You can claim he's looking to do that, but everything I've read indicates he wants a value trade. Going after Amare at a vastly lower salary is a value trade. Going after Barbosa and expiring contracts is a cap dump.

Bingo. Do you really think that a GM on the bubble is thinking of his team's long term interests? He's thinking about saving his butt short term...the future be damned...

 

[azirish]

Bingo. Do you really think that a GM on the bubble is thinking of his team's long term interests? He's thinking about saving his butt short term...the future be damned...

Which is why McHale could care less about expiring contracts and draft picks.

 

[sharkman]

Which is why McHale could care less about expiring contracts and draft picks.

Yup...which adds credibility that he was coveting Amare...a guy who could contribute immediately.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Which is why the deal was a bust, because amare is going nowhere.

Where you going?

NOWHERE!

 

[elindholm]

It comes back to the same basic problem, McHale is not looking to do a cap dump.

You can claim he's looking to do that, but everything I've read indicates he wants a value trade.

You're hopeless. Yes, McHale would rather get Stoudemire back. He'd probably like Stoudemire, Barbosa, and the Atlanta pick, while he's at it. It's not going to happen.

So, given that he can't get what he wants, will he sit there and watch Garnett walk away in a year, or will he make the best of a bad situation? We don't know one way or the other, but for you to entirely reject the second possibility is wholly unrealistic.

Barbosa and the #5 pick is a much, much better deal than losing Garnett for nothing.