Not enamored.

[TJ]

TJ please list an example of any instance in which Whiz has made a great personnel decision?

Russ you and Stew are basically saying the same thing. Sorry but the Rams are a disaster. They have won a total of 6 games over the past 3 years. The Seahawks had a lame duck coach and GM... and an idiot last year. The main competition coming from the 49ers who even with all their turmoil still beat the Cards twice last year and are poised to overtake them this year.

My point with the coattails comment was that. Damn near every player that the Cardinals leaned on over the last 2 years outside of Breaston was already on the team prior to Whiz. The same problems associated with this team 4 years ago... still plagues them. Can we not say that this team improved simply because they've been together for so long?

Correct me if i'm wrong but I do believe the decision was fairly simple in going with Kurt. IIRC Warner was benched in 06 due to turnovers. Matt came in played ok but got hurt. Kurt came back and in 2007 Matt got hurt again and Kurt finished out the year throwing for like 300 yards every game to end the year. 2008 Matt effs up in Oakland and Kurt never looks back.

John Lott? Russ Grimm?

 

[Mulli]

John Lott? Russ Grimm?

Todd Haley

 

[Buckybird]

Todd Haley

Calais Campbell over Antonio Smith

 

[Mulli]

DRC over Eric Green
Beanie over Edge

 

[clif]

Clif, his regular season record is 27-21, postseason 4-2. Deal with it. He chose to play Warner (who had lost the job under Green by making big mistakes) even though he inherited Leinart as the starter. He has added depth and quality throughout the roster. The Steelers didn't even make the playoffs last year, they did not get the better coach.

Again I'm not disputing his record nor am I even saying he's a bad coach. I'm just not in love with the guy. He has beat up on some inferior talent with talent he didn't bring in or even improve on or coach up. Every problem that this team had under Denny still exists. The only difference that I can think of is that Kurt stopped turning the ball over.

 

[Mulli]

Again I'm not disputing his record nor am I even saying he's a bad coach. I'm just not in love with the guy. He has beat up on some inferior talent with talent he didn't bring in or even improve on or coach up. Every problem that this team had under Denny still exists. The only difference that I can think of is that Kurt stopped turning the ball over.

They stopped losing to teams who ended up having the number 1 pick. Or to most teams with losing records. They started winning on the road, on the east coast.

 

[Zeno]

John Lott? Russ Grimm?

I like Lott but I am not a huge believer in Russ Grimm, not sure how good of a teacher he really is. Our OL hasn't improved the way you'd expect by year 4 and at some point the position coach has to be held accountable.

Sure Whisenhunt has made questionable decisions but there are some banners hanging in the stadium where prior to his arrival we had zero. That alone gives him the initial benefit of the doubt in most decisions.

I don't agree with Anderson starting--he stinks, has a track record of being inconsistent and inaccurate but maybe it just means Leinart is worse and Anderson is the best choice we currently have (which makes me sick to even type). I will say this though with DA I fear we will be out of the playoff race by the first of December and Whisenhunt won't have the tag of never having a losing record.

 

[earthsci]

Every problem that this team had under Denny still exists. The only difference that I can think of is that Kurt stopped turning the ball over.

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Incorrect. The Cardinals have not had a losing record with Ken Whisenhunt.

 

[clif]

Sorry Clif, that's just loser talk. For every team that's ever been successful, you can go back and come up with examples of ridiculous luck or good fortune, but this is a results world. You can criticize Whis and nit pick any number of things that he's done, but clearly you can't see the forest through the trees.

Whis is a winner, and has been literally the best thing that has ever happened to the team.

What can't I see? This team is mediocre and they have been mediocre since the day he took over.

 

[clif]

John Lott? Russ Grimm?

Russ Grimm? Really? What the hell has he done as a coach?

 

[clif]

DRC over Eric Green
Beanie over Edge

1st round pick over a second?
1st round pick over a 33 year RB?

 

[TJ]

What can't I see? This team is mediocre and they have been mediocre since the day he took over.

WTF are you drinking?

You do know we went to the superbowl a couple of years ago, right? You do know we have won out division twice in a row, right?

Mediocre? I really hope this is an act clif. If it isnt, im sending the loony bin to your location

 

[Mulli]

1st round pick over a second?
1st round pick over a 33 year RB?

Yep. Coached them well enough to start on winning playoff teams. Same for Hightower who played crucial roll in winning an NFC Championship game as a rookie.

 

[D-Dogg]

winning.

:iwin:

 

[Shane]

Again I'm not disputing his record nor am I even saying he's a bad coach. I'm just not in love with the guy. He has beat up on some inferior talent with talent he didn't bring in or even improve on or coach up. Every problem that this team had under Denny still exists. The only difference that I can think of is that Kurt stopped turning the ball over.

You dont think the talent on this roster has improved since he got here? WOW! No use debating with you.

 

[Buckybird]

Mediocre? I really hope this is an act clif. If it isnt, im sending the loony bin to your location

Good stuff TJ, maybe clif just needs a straightjacket & a timeout

 

[Mulli]

Great thread Clif. Compelling and rich.
:number1:

 

[Shane]

Great thread Clif. Compelling and rich.
:number1:

 

[clif]

They stopped losing to teams who ended up having the number 1 pick. Or to most teams with losing records. They started winning on the road, on the east coast.

I'll give you that, but who is that more attributed to? The coach or the players? Who by the time they actually starting winning on the road had been here 4 years or so.

Fitz
Dansby
Dockett
Wilson
Boldin
Deuce
Warner

Lesser extent
Wells
Hayes
etc

 

[jw7]

What can't I see? This team is mediocre and they have been mediocre since the day he took over.

I just looked at my calendar, and it is not April 1st.

If this is a joke, these kind of get old.

 

[THESMEL]

We can win more if We run the bean and keep our lousy defense off the field.

 

[Zeno]

I'll give you that, but who is that more attributed to? The coach or the players? Who by the time they actually starting winning on the road had been here 4 years or so.

Fitz
Dansby
Dockett
Wilson
Boldin
Deuce
Warner

Lesser extent
Wells
Hayes
etc

Maybe he and his coaching staff put a system in place to maximize their abilities and skills. All those players you named were on teams that won 5-6 games a season.

 

[clif]

WTF are you drinking?

You do know we went to the superbowl a couple of years ago, right? You do know we have won out division twice in a row, right?

Mediocre? I really hope this is an act clif. If it isnt, im sending the loony bin to your location

And you don't think 8-8 with Home: 6-2. Away: 2-6 is mediocre?
Still don't think 9-7 with a 3-5 road record while getting absolutely trounced down the stretch is mediocre?

10-6 is decent, but we all know this team isn't even as talented as the one last year.

Can't and won't dispute going to the superbowl, but are we any closer to winning a superbowl today than say 2 years ago?

 

[TJ]

And you don't think 8-8 with Home: 6-2. Away: 2-6 is mediocre?
Still don't think 9-7 with a 3-5 road record while getting absolutely trounced down the stretch is mediocre?

10-6 is decent, but we all know this team isn't even as talented as the one last year.

Can't and won't dispute going to the superbowl, but are we any closer to winning a superbowl today than say 2 years ago?

Guess you're right.

Ill bite...let's fire Whisenhunt tomorrow...WAIT...lets just do it tonight and get it over. Because afterall, he is a mediocre coach and has done nothing to resurrect a once inept franchise.

 

[conraddobler]

He hasn't done squat without Warner, have we even won more than two games without him?

I love Whiz too most of the time but a lot of the crap he's doing lately is not wearing well.

The wheels can fly off the bus fast in Cardinal land, it's a fine line between being competitive and just being a jerk.

I like coaches who have some loyalty in them, it's fine to be mean and tough and all that but you have to have your players back some, Whiz enjoys torturing players a lot, I'm only so much of a fan of that.

True they need that sometimes and it works better with some players than it does with others, but that should not be the only tool in the tool box and when a guy like that takes it just a bit too far for his talent level later on in his tenure with a team things can get out of hand quickly, we'll see.

The whole Matt situation is not just Whiz's fault, if we've disliked him that much, if the coaches have that low an opinion of him what the heck is the FO doing?

Is this some kind of coaches vs the FO squabble where they were told to ride with Matt and they're just torturing him to prove a point?

What?

Either he stinks or he should play, one or the freaking other, to be doing this in year four of his tenure is stupid beyond belief.