Not enamored.

[Cbus cardsfan]

has whiz ever been in the running for coach of the year?

Well, Chuck Noll never won coach of the year but Lindy Infante and Jack Patera have. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

 

[Cardiac]

Another cliche is proven. You can't please all the people.....

 

[clif]

Well, Chuck Noll never won coach of the year but Lindy Infante and Jack Patera have. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

point being that I don't even know if he was even in the race. he is either being ignored or people don't seem too be in awe of him as some fans are. again winning the award isn't necessarily a recipe for success, but at least be in the conversation.

 

[Russ Smith]

TJ please list an example of any instance in which Whiz has made a great personnel decision?

Russ you and Stew are basically saying the same thing. Sorry but the Rams are a disaster. They have won a total of 6 games over the past 3 years. The Seahawks had a lame duck coach and GM... and an idiot last year. The main competition coming from the 49ers who even with all their turmoil still beat the Cards twice last year and are poised to overtake them this year.

My point with the coattails comment was that. Damn near every player that the Cardinals leaned on over the last 2 years outside of Breaston was already on the team prior to Whiz. The same problems associated with this team 4 years ago... still plagues them. Can we not say that this team improved simply because they've been together for so long?

Correct me if i'm wrong but I do believe the decision was fairly simple in going with Kurt. IIRC Warner was benched in 06 due to turnovers. Matt came in played ok but got hurt. Kurt came back and in 2007 Matt got hurt again and Kurt finished out the year throwing for like 300 yards every game to end the year. 2008 Matt effs up in Oakland and Kurt never looks back.

But the TEAM was clearly not as good under Green, even if that was staying together, do you really feel that would have happened if Green had stayed the coach? Don't you remember the last season of his lame duck regime after he went bananas after the Bears game and demoted his OC and completely hosed the team?

I submit that most coaches coming taking over THAT team would have gutted the team a lot more than Whiz did. I think Whiz(and Graves) showed their value right then by their ability to recognize there is talent on this roster and keeping most of that talent.

Yes the division sucked the last few years but that doesn't account for us making the Superbowl one year or beating the Packers last season. Those playoff wins against non division opponents can't just be ignored, and while Warner played a huge role in those wins, Whiz played a huge role in recognizing Kurt still had it.

Just look at this board, many of us, me for certain, were absolutely convinced Warner was done. MOst of the NFL was, that's how we got him, I think Whiz has to get credit for recognizing in practice and preseason that Kurt still had it, the easy thing to do would have been go with Matt, nobody would have questioned that decision, going with Kurt was the contrarian decision.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Sorry, but I'm just not that enamored with Whisenhunt as most seem to be. I'm so tired of hearing "in whiz we trust". That ***** is starting to wear on me. It is so effin silly to hear people justify every little thing he does with... "well he knows more than you about football". Obviously he does, but that doesn't mean he is without faults. Every single player stare down he has had he has lost. Boldin, Duece, Matt, Edge and you can even say he lost the battle with Big Ben. Yes it seemed right to get behind him in that battle, but Ben is looking more and more right every time you see what Whiz is doing to Matt.

Boldin and the FO were having their battle and Whiz had to open his effin mouth and basically contaminate the waters to the point of no return.

Edge was a pro's pro but unspectacular, what does Whiz do? He benches him until he realized he screwed up and had to rely on the guy to get the run game out of the toilet.

As for Matt, it has been PROVEN that once this guy is given the reigns unconditionally he has won and yet our genius comes in and immediately starts effin with his head.

Year four and we are still shuffling the Oline and like his predecessor.. he is playing a potential stud of a guard at freaking tackle. He has come up short in FA every year he has been here. No impact players brought in nor any top players retained. Run game is still an issue so he drafts a stud and what does he do? He continually makes the guy second fiddle to a guy he clearly outplayed. Our best Olineman... he trashed him in the media and has him playing the fourth quarter of a meaningless preseason game out of spite and despite the fact that he is outplaying yet another ex-Steelers reject.

Signs an ex-Steelers corner only to trade him back to the steelers a year later all while leaving a gaping hole in the secondary.

Coach is an ex- tight end and yet he can't seem to find a decent one to save his life.

Whiz rode the coattails of a Hall of Fame QB, Hall of Fame WR, a stud WR, a potential hall of fame Safety, and some very good players... none of which he brought in.

Penalties and dumb mental errors, poor clock and game management, suspect gameplans and curious playcalling all still persist and yet we should be happy because we won a weak division.

There's a reason he didn't get the Steelers job and each year it's becoming more and more clear.

This must be your first three years as a Cardinal fan.

KY

 

[Russ Smith]

Yeah, cuz that's exactly what I said... or even alluded to. Every time someone questions or even disagrees with the almighty he is immediately ridiculed. I said I wasn't enamored. He has made more than a couple of questionable moves and inherited a hall of fame QB and a roster full of young talent that happened to have been together for a few years. They finally hit it right and played .500 ball. Now the the coach is a saint even to the point that a mediocre team is being celebrated.

Let's be real for a minute. This team got HAMMERED in the divisional round last year and we ain't even as good. We traded a decent corner to start a 2nd year fourth round pick from nowhere state.

We lost our starting LB and all around playmaker and replaced him with a journey man backer who couldn't hack it on a 2 win team.

We cut our former first round pick safety and traded for a model. ( )

Our hall of fame QB retired and we went into a new season with our young qb as the starter, but gave him 6 preseason drives to replace him with a guy who got beat out by brady freakin quinn.

We got this stallion in the garage that was averaging 4.5 yards a pop, but we told him to play in the second half of a preseason game because he can't catch.

We traded a stud WR and replaced him with a tiny receiver that can't catch a lick.

Oh and did you notice we drafted another mediocre tight end? Is this like his pet project?

The QB question is obviously the big one and we don't know yet what we have there.

I think Beanie is probably just fine with limited carries in the preseason with the rib injury and how bad the run blocking has been. He does need to improve in pass pro and receiving, I think he'll get the bulk of the carries this year and I think him and Tim make a great combo.

We traded Boldin because he FORCED us to do so, I love the guy as much as anybody his jersey still hangs in my closet, but HE wanted out. And we didn't replace him with Roberts, we replaced him with Breaston, or Doucet depending on how you viewed them. It doesn't appear Breaston is going to be in Q's slot that much so Doucet is probably the right answer, he's not as good but he does look like he can play doesn't he?

 

[clif]

But the TEAM was clearly not as good under Green, even if that was staying together, do you really feel that would have happened if Green had stayed the coach? Don't you remember the last season of his lame duck regime after he went bananas after the Bears game and demoted his OC and completely hosed the team?

I submit that most coaches coming taking over THAT team would have gutted the team a lot more than Whiz did. I think Whiz(and Graves) showed their value right then by their ability to recognize there is talent on this roster and keeping most of that talent.

Yes the division sucked the last few years but that doesn't account for us making the Superbowl one year or beating the Packers last season. Those playoff wins against non division opponents can't just be ignored, and while Warner played a huge role in those wins, Whiz played a huge role in recognizing Kurt still had it.

Just look at this board, many of us, me for certain, were absolutely convinced Warner was done. MOst of the NFL was, that's how we got him, I think Whiz has to get credit for recognizing in practice and preseason that Kurt still had it, the easy thing to do would have been go with Matt, nobody would have questioned that decision, going with Kurt was the contrarian decision.

russ, my intention was not to compare whiz to denny. this was an evaluation of whiz against himself and other top teams in the league. one of whizs main talking points when he came in was about how he would have a disciplined team that would be able to run the ball and play solid defense. had any of that happened? people forget that we had a top ten passing game in 2005 so it wasn't hard to figure there wastalent here. I would look it up again but I am typing from my phone so it's too much of a pain.

 

[Russ Smith]

point being that I don't even know if he was even in the race. he is either being ignored or people don't seem too be in awe of him as some fans are. again winning the award isn't necessarily a recipe for success, but at least be in the conversation.

IMHO it's because those awards are voted based on regular season performance not playoff performance. He would have gotten a lot of votes the year we went to the SB.

 

[Russ Smith]

russ, my intention was not to compare whiz to denny. this was an evaluation of whiz against himself and other top teams in the league. one of whizs main talking points when he came in was about how he would have a disciplined team that would be able to run the ball and play solid defense. had any of that happened? people forget that we had a top ten passing game in 2005 so it wasn't hard to figure there wastalent here. I would look it up again but I am typing from my phone so it's too much of a pain.

Well that's where we really disagree because it's impossible for me to NOT compare Whiz to the prior coach. I didn't like Green and I made no secret of that but to me the difference in this franchise now to then is so huge I don't care if Bill Walsh were the prior coach I'd still be comparing Whiz to him based on the results.

Regarding the passing talent, you're right, but don't you remember the hand wringing here from fans who felt it was stupid to hire a coach who wanted to play smashmouth run the football offense? WHy hire Whiz he'll gut the passing game and rebuild, we should have hired a pass oriented coach, that was a HUGE topic here when he was hired. But Whiz came in and was smart enough to realize that made no sense and he didn't do it.

Now in year 4 because Kurt has retired, we are trying to remake ourselves as a power running team. We don't have the OL in place yet I agree with you there, but we are absolutely set at RB, 2 power runners, a nice 3rd down change of pace guy. So we're transitioning but if we get decent QB play we could still easily win the division this year in what should be a down year changing systems. I think that's due to good planning.

I'll grant you this, if Derek Anderson is starting QB against the Rams in the opener I too will be concerned, I'm not a fan of his game at all. But I do think if that's the case, Whiz will probably find a way to hide his weaknesses and exploit his strengths.

 

[JeffGollin]

I've been generally happy with Coach Wiz and most Cardinal personnel decisions since he's been here.

But I must admit that the Anderson-for-Leinart move has me shaking my head. (Preseason game #3's are tyically used for verifying that a team's first unit has its act together and not as a vehicle for shaking up your roster and messing up unit-cohesion).

That said - Wiz has tended to be right in the past, and we'll just have to see whether the QB move he's making is the right one now.

My point - Before we throw him under the bus, let's make darned sure he deserves to be. He's at least earned that.

 

[THESMEL]

well

I think Whiz is screwing with our heads to see How we will respond!

watching CB- colts gasme last night I seen a couple of of good QB's. Good Olines, good RB's anss WR. Good defense too.

I don't know man, I just don't see players being thrown under the bus onother teams and they are not worried about anything other than the opponent. I seen a drop off of talent on the 2nd tier players but the starters were put in the best chance succeed comfort zone this 3rd game.

Oh they actually re-signed some good players too.

I hold Kurt Warner responsible for 4 games a year where He just put the team in a position to lose no matter what. but He put them in a position to win no matter what 4 games a year too.

This defense can't win a close one, THT can't carry a team and Fitz needs help from the QB. We are what we are but We are Whiz's baby he gets what He gives.

resentment.

The QB question is obviously the big one and we don't know yet what we have there.

I think Beanie is probably just fine with limited carries in the preseason with the rib injury and how bad the run blocking has been. He does need to improve in pass pro and receiving, I think he'll get the bulk of the carries this year and I think him and Tim make a great combo.

We traded Boldin because he FORCED us to do so, I love the guy as much as anybody his jersey still hangs in my closet, but HE wanted out. And we didn't replace him with Roberts, we replaced him with Breaston, or Doucet depending on how you viewed them. It doesn't appear Breaston is going to be in Q's slot that much so Doucet is probably the right answer, he's not as good but he does look like he can play doesn't he?

 

[clif]

The QB question is obviously the big one and we don't know yet what we have there.

I think Beanie is probably just fine with limited carries in the preseason with the rib injury and how bad the run blocking has been. He does need to improve in pass pro and receiving, I think he'll get the bulk of the carries this year and I think him and Tim make a great combo.

We traded Boldin because he FORCED us to do so, I love the guy as much as anybody his jersey still hangs in my closet, but HE wanted out. And we didn't replace him with Roberts, we replaced him with Breaston, or Doucet depending on how you viewed them. It doesn't appear Breaston is going to be in Q's slot that much so Doucet is probably the right answer, he's not as good but he does look like he can play doesn't he?

as some have stated the issue with the qb situation in my eyes is that if whiz wanted to make this an open competition, he had better options in the offseason than da. as for boldin....whiz should have kept his mouth shut. his comments didnt help in any way. same thing with ben. making comments about players outside of playing the game is never a good move. yeah we very well may have traded boldin anyways, but the argument can be made that he lowered his trade value and or caused boldin to turn against them team for good. no i dont think roberts was brought in to specifically replace boldin, i was talking about him in the sense of evaluating talent. the guy has done nothing.

 

[Russ Smith]

as some have stated the issue with the qb situation in my eyes is that if whiz wanted to make this an open competition, he had better options in the offseason than da. as for boldin....whiz should have kept his mouth shut. his comments didnt help in any way. same thing with ben. making comments about players outside of playing the game is never a good move. yeah we very well may have traded boldin anyways, but the argument can be made that he lowered his trade value and or caused boldin to turn against them team for good. no i dont think roberts was brought in to specifically replace boldin, i was talking about him in the sense of evaluating talent. the guy has done nothing.

We'll just have to disagree on Anquan, I think he showed his hand when he was complaining during the NFC title game(And after) and his actions that offseason. He was mad he wasn't paid more, it was really obvious, the team had redone his deal already, when not required to do so, but because of the deal Fitz got, Quan wasn't going to be happy.

Love the guy, can't thank him enough for what he did while here, played his butt off the whole time here, but in the end when the team was finally good, he let the financial side of the game get in the way. Do I think the Cards played a role in that too, yes, but they almost had to, they could not afford to pay him what he wanted, it made no sense to invest that much in 2 Wr's.

So far I agree with you on Roberts, he hasn't shown much. People miss that during all the Matt bashing he actually would have had a first down in the last game and possibly a lot more if Roberts could catch the ball. He hit Roberts in stride over the middle but he bobbled it and nearly dropped it before catching it and getting tackled short of the first down. If he catches the ball cleanly that play had a chance to go for 30 plus yards.

I guess I'm giving Roberts time because he's a rookie from a small school, and because Williams has been such a pleasant surprise he's sort of offsetting Roberts problem so far.

 

[Cheesebeef]

ok so after a few hours of sleep let me clarify my thoughts. it is clear that this team is better than the previous incarnations prior to 2007. and the super bowl run can not be ignored or diminished, but I still argue that year 4's team is not significantly better than year 1.

if our HOF QB hadn't pulled the rug out from under us it would have most definitely had been and if the FO hadn't sat on it's hands for years with Dansby, it would have been as well. Neither of those were within Wiz's control.

also I have yet to hear anyone refute the notion that this team has not improved in discipline, clock management, or play calling. this team still commits a high level of dumb penalties and the offensive line is still a mess. depth is still an issue.

I'll give you most of this except play-calling. You really don't remember how ATROCIOUS the offense used to be, do you? Neil Rackers set a record for FGs one year... because we couldn't score a damn TD to save our life and before that, even FGs were a rarity! The dude resurrected a HOF QB from the dead and made us one of the most potent offenses in the league. You don't get to that point with bad play calling Clif.

 

[Shane]

point being that I don't even know if he was even in the race. he is either being ignored or people don't seem too be in awe of him as some fans are. again winning the award isn't necessarily a recipe for success, but at least be in the conversation.

Cardinals are ignored for everything so how would that shock you?

 

[Shane]

This must be your first three years as a Cardinal fan.

KY

 

[Cheesebeef]

Cardinals are ignored for everything so how would that shock you?

agreed, although any time I hear Ken get on a national show, once he's off, they are praising him to the bejesus for what he's accomplished with this team.

 

[Shane]

agreed, although any time I hear Ken get on a national show, once he's off, they are praising him to the bejesus for what he's accomplished with this team.

True. Then 10 seconds after the convo hes forgotten.

 

[Redheart]

Who would you rather have at QB: Matt or Jake.

Captain Check-down or Captain Bonehead? My way of saying that Matt's conservative play is not that unattractive...

:stealsthread:

 

[Shane]

Who would you rather have at QB: Matt or Jake.

Captain Check-down or Captain Bonehead? My way of saying that Matt's conservative play is not that unattractive...

:stealsthread:

Would take Jake Plummer and what he accomplished in the NFL over his career. Many times over Matt.

 

[Bobcat]

Sorry, but I'm just not that enamored with Whisenhunt as most seem to be. I'm so tired of hearing "in whiz we trust". That ***** is starting to wear on me. It is so effin silly to hear people justify every little thing he does with... "well he knows more than you about football". Obviously he does, but that doesn't mean he is without faults. Every single player stare down he has had he has lost. Boldin, Duece, Matt, Edge and you can even say he lost the battle with Big Ben. Yes it seemed right to get behind him in that battle, but Ben is looking more and more right every time you see what Whiz is doing to Matt.

Boldin and the FO were having their battle and Whiz had to open his effin mouth and basically contaminate the waters to the point of no return.

Edge was a pro's pro but unspectacular, what does Whiz do? He benches him until he realized he screwed up and had to rely on the guy to get the run game out of the toilet.

As for Matt, it has been PROVEN that once this guy is given the reigns unconditionally he has won and yet our genius comes in and immediately starts effin with his head.

Year four and we are still shuffling the Oline and like his predecessor.. he is playing a potential stud of a guard at freaking tackle. He has come up short in FA every year he has been here. No impact players brought in nor any top players retained. Run game is still an issue so he drafts a stud and what does he do? He continually makes the guy second fiddle to a guy he clearly outplayed. Our best Olineman... he trashed him in the media and has him playing the fourth quarter of a meaningless preseason game out of spite and despite the fact that he is outplaying yet another ex-Steelers reject.

Signs an ex-Steelers corner only to trade him back to the steelers a year later all while leaving a gaping hole in the secondary.

Coach is an ex- tight end and yet he can't seem to find a decent one to save his life.

Whiz rode the coattails of a Hall of Fame QB, Hall of Fame WR, a stud WR, a potential hall of fame Safety, and some very good players... none of which he brought in.

Penalties and dumb mental errors, poor clock and game management, suspect gameplans and curious playcalling all still persist and yet we should be happy because we won a weak division.

There's a reason he didn't get the Steelers job and each year it's becoming more and more clear.

Thank you someone on this forum get's it. Thank you that is why I call him WhizinSTUPID...!!!

BOBCAT

 

[Rats]

I hope I am wrong but I think Whis has made a mistake that may cost this team and this season. We are in transition and you cannot give props all offseason to Matts work and then without much evidence change the guy at the most important position on the field. DA is really just terribly inaccurate and does not show that he can manage an offense even if it is heavy on run vs pass. I feel as though Matt could at least manage a game if he does not have to win it with his arm( Although he has had some good moments throwing). Matt should be given plenty of rope and the starting nod to see if he can lead this team this season. DA is not the answer. You have to give Whis the benefit of the doubt but he is not perfect and makes alot of mistakes in play calling. With either Qb he is going to have to manage the game where with Warner he did not have to as much. I feel once he turned alot of it over to Warner and the OC we played better. Can't do that with the Qb's they have now. Matt would be the better of the two at managing the game. This could be a power struggle kind of thing. Time will tell. Hope it is all for naught and we come out running the ball alot this season but I do kinda agree with Clif on this.

 

[THESMEL]

never know

WE'll never know Whiz is allergic to running the football.
I mean the season numbers are not the true story like 65% to 35% over the last 2 years. some games we have like 14 run plays.

I hear Lombardi now
WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON OUT THERE!

He always apoligises to the little pygmies in the fanbase right before He does the same damn thing again. It has and continues to hurt the Cardinals on offense, defense and special teams.

I hope I am wrong but I think Whis has made a mistake that may cost this team and this season. We are in transition and you cannot give props all offseason to Matts work and then without much evidence change the guy at the most important position on the field. DA is really just terribly inaccurate and does not show that he can manage an offense even if it is heavy on run vs pass. I feel as though Matt could at least manage a game if he does not have to win it with his arm( Although he has had some good moments throwing). Matt should be given plenty of rope and the starting nod to see if he can lead this team this season. DA is not the answer. You have to give Whis the benefit of the doubt but he is not perfect and makes alot of mistakes in play calling. With either Qb he is going to have to manage the game where with Warner he did not have to as much. I feel once he turned alot of it over to Warner and the OC we played better. Can't do that with the Qb's they have now. Matt would be the better of the two at managing the game. This could be a power struggle kind of thing. Time will tell. Hope it is all for naught and we come out running the ball alot this season but I do kinda agree with Clif on this.

 

[clif]

If they release Matt prior to even taking a snap in the regular season after all these years invested in him, then Whiz and RG would be the biggest f-ing idiots to ever come down the pipe! How the hell would you justify releasing a guy BEFORE the start of a season with no proven other option on the roster?

 

[Russ Smith]

If they release Matt prior to even taking a snap in the regular season after all these years invested in him, then Whiz and RG would be the biggest f-ing idiots to ever come down the pipe! How the hell would you justify releasing a guy BEFORE the start of a season with no proven other option on the roster?

Agreed. Lombardi says they would like to pick up another QB off waivers but makes no sense at all, who can they pick up who will be better in their system than Matt? Who exactly do they think will get released.