Not even kinda close! (Jordan and Rose)

[D-Dogg]

they will and regular season doesn't mean jack. they're too young/inexperienced to get past the Heat in the playoffs.

The Heat are too thin to get past the Bulls, and can't guard Rose. Noah hustles more than any guy on that Heat team. Top 5, the Heat have a slight advantage. Top to bottom, advantage Bulls.

you're smoking crack. there's no way the Lakers lose to that team. Gasol/Bynum swallow up Boozer whole and dominate him on offense and as incredible as Rose is, he's not going to beat you guys single-handedly.

You're smoking meth. Pau sissies up when guys like Joke outhustle him, it's maddening. Noah's impact isn't from offense, it is from activity and that kind of player absolutely makes Pau shrivel. Rose will crush the Lakers, it is our biggest weak spot. It's a given.

You've got a team with an all world PG with speed, shooters like Korver who plays well against LA. Deng is a great matchup when Lamar comes in, and he will when Pau struggles. Bynum will chew up the paint, but the Bulls will push the flow and with HCA, I simply don't see the Lakers winning.

Amazing and quick PG, three point shooter and hustle big is a recipe to beat the Lakers, and the Bulls are the one matchup that I really don't have much confidence in.

 

[TucsonDevil]

it's really not close. there's never been anything like Jordan in the game and i doubt there ever will be.

Seriously? How's this for a list:

Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Julius Erving
Wilt Chamberlain
Lew Alcindor
Oscar Robinson
and, of course, Bill Russell

And how can you discount the current Kobe Bryant?

I would say that there are a few that can compete against MJ as "the best ever"... you have to discount 'Marketing' for this race. The successful marketing campaign of 'His Airness' made him bigger than life. That sort of exposure wasn't available when Wilt scored 100 pts - heck, Wilt averaged over 50ppg one season, and 44+ in another - while finishing his career shooting over 54%.

It's too early to even talk about Durant and Rose as being "Like Jordan".

Also, as said before - if its a Bulls-Lakers final, Lakers win that series 8 times in 10.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Heat are too thin to get past the Bulls, and can't guard Rose. Noah hustles more than any guy on that Heat team. Top 5, the Heat have a slight advantage. Top to bottom, advantage Bulls.



You're smoking meth. Pau sissies up when guys like Joke outhustle him, it's maddening. Noah's impact isn't from offense, it is from activity and that kind of player absolutely makes Pau shrivel. Rose will crush the Lakers, it is our biggest weak spot. It's a given.

I know PG is your weakest spot, but that's all the Bulls got on offense against you guys and it won't be enough over the course of 7 games. You know as well as I do that Boozer's a shrinky-dink against you guys and with only one viable option on offense, it won't be enough to carry them past 3 7 footers and Kobe. and if Noah bodies Pau, then the only way the Lakers lose that series is if Kobe tries to play hero and completely ignores Bynum, who would absolutely DESTROY Boozer.

Actually, that's the only way possible that the Lakers lose any series is if Kobe tries to play hero and doesn't pound the ball inside, but especially against the midgets in Chicago.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Seriously? How's this for a list:

Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Julius Erving
Wilt Chamberlain
Lew Alcindor
Oscar Robinson
and, of course, Bill Russell

None of those guys are in Michael's class. Dude did more with less than any player in the history of the game. Look at how many HOFers those guys all played with on their way to titles and then look at how many HOFers Jordan played with... 1... Pippen... a guy who would get "migraine" head aches in big games or was such a bitch, that he refused to go in to a game because the final possession wasn't called for him.

And yet... once he reached his prime, he started pretty much single-handedly winning series with lesser teams (he took a 6 seed to the conference finals in 88) and then NEVER lost ONE series he was favored to win. Think about how ridiculous that is. NOT ONCE in his entire career was Jordan upset... by ANYONE.

That's what makes him head and shoulders better than all those guys... besides the fact that he was both the best offensive player in the game and one of the top 5 defenders in the game... if not the best in select seasons. Magic couldn't say that (and played with mutliple HOFers), Bird couldn't say that (who played with multiple HOFers), Julius couldn't say that, etc., etc...

And how can you discount the current Kobe Bryant?

Kobe had ZERO success unless paired with a) one of the best Big Men of all time or b) 3 athletic multi-talented 7 footers. He's an amazing scorer but his defense is wildly over-rated and his leadership skills don't come close to MJ... not to mention NONE of his stats are even close to his either.

I would say that there are a few that can compete against MJ as "the best ever"... you have to discount 'Marketing' for this race.

marketing schmarketing. The fact that once he started winning titles, NO ONE EVER BEAT HIM is what made him legend. He won series with or without HCA, favored or not favored. At least that's what does it for me. It didn't matter what people threw at him... I mean, not only did he never lose, do you realize only two teams ever even took one of his teams to 7 games and no one could ever get him to 7 games in the Finals?

 

[mojorizen7]

I get what you are saying. Bulls as a team can overcome Boozer. Probably. Bulls top 4 of Rose Boozer Noah Deng are better than Wade James Bosh whoever else they have...

I agree with this.

 

[mojorizen7]

MJ just refused to lose games,whether it be in November or June......i think this is what still seperates him from some of the other "great" players.

I hate on Kobe alot(and i'll continue to do so ) but he's easily the closest thing to MJ i've ever seen.
Physically and offensively Kobe can do everything MJ could,but MJ was a better defender & that refusal to lose no matter what mentality that Kobe sometimes lacks is still what seperates the two IMO.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Physically and offensively Kobe can do everything MJ could

Kobe can't go to the hole nearly as well as MJ. That's what separates the two of them. That and Kobe tries to play the hero too often. Dude would never have thrown the ball to a Bill Wennington for the game winner at the tail end of a double nickle game like MJ did... or kick it out to Kerr for the title ending game-winner.

 

[Cheesebeef]

that being said, Kobe is EASILY the second most clutch player I've ever seen. dude is an absolute assassin at the end of games... maybe even on Jordan's level in that respect.

 

[D-Dogg]

Dude would never have thrown the ball to a Bill Wennington for the game winner at the tail end of a double nickle game like MJ did... or kick it out to Kerr for the title ending game-winner.

Disagree.

You will disagree with me, so we must agree to disagree.

 

[95pro]

dont forget, MJ played when there were a lot harder fouls and hand checking was allowed, etc.

these days you cant breathe on a superstar like wade or kobe.

 

[TucsonDevil]

None of those guys are in Michael's class.

I don't believe you ever watched any of those guys play, am I wrong? The game was much more physical than the later years with Jordan. When the Pistons used to beat up on Michael, it was acceptable until Stern had his officials come up with their own set of "Jordan Rules". After that point, Jordan couldn't foul anyone, and was always fouled when touched. If you don't believe me, look at some of the footage that is available, particularly that 'heralded' last shot against the Jazz after he pushed off Bryon Russell to 'miraculously' get open. You might say 'marketing schmarketing - but you must not understand the reality of the business of sports, but Stern does.

One more thing... Rodman was just elected to the HOF. Kerr is the all-time leader in 3-pt FG%, and Toni Kokoc was an NBA 6th Man. The 2nd three-titled teams had significantly better supporting casts than the first three; you don't win 70 games on the back on one guy.

 

[TucsonDevil]

dont forget, MJ played when there were a lot harder fouls and hand checking was allowed, etc.

these days you cant breathe on a superstar like wade or kobe.

Wrong... Jordan initiated this change. He was the catalyst for it!!! He became the first SuperStar that couldn't foul - and was always fouled. Don't look at the 80s footage - look at the seasons he started winning titles.

I don't hate him for it. It's just what happened.

 

[95pro]

fouls were still harder and hand checking was allowed, vs now

 

[Michael]

Kobe can't go to the hole nearly as well as MJ. That's what separates the two of them. That and Kobe tries to play the hero too often. Dude would never have thrown the ball to a Bill Wennington for the game winner at the tail end of a double nickle game like MJ did... or kick it out to Kerr for the title ending game-winner.

So true! And MJ would have never ever quit a Game 7 in the playoffs like Bryant did in 2006.

 

[BC867]

Fans of all generations like to think that the best we have "now" are the best ever. Because we're living it "now".

Kobe is in no way better than Michael. In fact, Kobe is not better than Magic.

Kobe is a facilitator, a scorer, a defender and rather versatile. But he doesn't make the players around him anywhere near as good as the two MJ's or Oscar Robertson or even Walt Frazier did.

Kobe is of this generation, but not the best ever.

P.S.: Baseball measures outstanding players as 5-tool players. Hit for average, hit for power, play defense, run and throw.

Perhaps basketball's 5-tool players should be measured for scoring, passing, defense, rebounds and blocks-or-steals.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Disagree.

You will disagree with me, so we must agree to disagree.

6-24.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't believe you ever watched any of those guys play, am I wrong?

you're completely wrong.

The game was much more physical than the later years with Jordan. When the Pistons used to beat up on Michael, it was acceptable until Stern had his officials come up with their own set of "Jordan Rules". After that point, Jordan couldn't foul anyone, and was always fouled when touched. If you don't believe me, look at some of the footage that is available, particularly that 'heralded' last shot against the Jazz after he pushed off Bryon Russell to 'miraculously' get open. You might say 'marketing schmarketing - but you must not understand the reality of the business of sports, but Stern does.

lame.

One more thing... Rodman was just elected to the HOF.

oh yeah, forgot about the guy who only played on one side of the ball and by his last year with the Bulls was a bigger pain in the ass then anything else.

And on his first 3 peat team? Who were the multiple HOFers on that one?

Kerr is the all-time leader in 3-pt FG%, and Toni Kokoc was an NBA 6th Man.

good role players, nothing more, nothing less IMO. no one where near the talent of a Byron Scott, Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, Jammal Wilkes who were "role players" for those Lakers/Celtics teams.

The 2nd three-titled teams had significantly better supporting casts than the first three; you don't win 70 games on the back on one guy.

no one said it was one guy, but those supporting casts were a) OLD and b) it was Jordan's drive to never let those team let up for even a second, even in the regular season that even more cements his greatness imo.

 

[D-Dogg]

fouls were still harder and hand checking was allowed, vs now

hand checking happens ALL THE EFFING time now. I'm tired of the hand checking bs argument. There is just as much contact on the perimeter as before, and even MORE body contact is allowed these days. Guys can ******** the PG on the perimeter these days...see Fisher, Derek.

 

[D-Dogg]

6-24.

15 rebounds in a game that was DETERMINED by rebounds. And driving to the rim and getting free throws that were CRUCIAL in the win.

Yeah, will to win, to do what it takes. Yep.

Oh, and a little pass to Ron Artest for a HUGE three that was basically the game winner in game 7...Ron Artest...for three.

 

[Cheesebeef]

hand checking happens ALL THE EFFING time now. I'm tired of the hand checking bs argument. There is just as much contact on the perimeter as before, and even MORE body contact is allowed these days. Guys can ******** the PG on the perimeter these days...see Fisher, Derek.

this is stupid. just because fisher gets away with this crap doesn't mean everyone else does.

 

[Cheesebeef]

15 rebounds in a game that was DETERMINED by rebounds. And driving to the rim and getting free throws that were CRUCIAL in the win.

Yeah, will to win, to do what it takes. Yep.

Oh, and a little pass to Ron Artest for a HUGE three that was basically the game winner in game 7...Ron Artest...for three.

he practically shot them out of that game and the referees handing them 23 4th quarter FTs gave them the win that Kobe so valiantly tried to lose for them.

 

[D-Dogg]

he practically shot them out of that game and the referees handing them 23 4th quarter FTs gave them the win that Kobe so valiantly tried to lose for them.

Oh ******** cheese and you know it. Kobe went hard to the rack over and over, and got crucial rebounds over Celtic bigs when it REALLY mattered...because boards REALLY mattered.

EVERYONE on the Lakers shot like crap in that game. Shot them out of it? Both teams shot terribly...all of them. more than anything else, that game seven came down to "want it" and Kobe wanted it more than the celtics as a team did, because kobe owned the last 4 minutes of that game on both ends. You can slobber on Bill Simmons cute little 6-24 stat all night long, but at the end of the day the 15 boards Kobe pulled down, and his relentless pushing the action at the rim to draw fouls in the fourth quarter was UNQUESTIONABLY the difference in that deciding game.

 

[devilalum]

Call me when Derrick Rose scores 60 points on the Bird/Parrish/McCale world champion Celtics in the garden in the playoffs basically BY HIMSELF. How old was Jordan when he did this?

The only reason anybody will ever compare these guys to Jordon is that they are too young to have actually watched Michael Jordan.

Just look up how many triple doubles, game winners, MVPs, championships, defensive all NBA teams etc... MJ has. Good players come along all the time but how many stick around and just keep getting better? If Jordan's dad hadn't got murdered and he hadn't wasted time playing baseball the Bulls would have won EIGHT titles in a row.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Oh ******** cheese and you know it. Kobe went hard to the rack over and over, and got crucial rebounds over Celtic bigs when it REALLY mattered...because boards REALLY mattered.

EVERYONE on the Lakers shot like crap in that game. Shot them out of it? Both teams shot terribly...all of them. more than anything else, that game seven came down to "want it" and Kobe wanted it more than the celtics as a team did, because kobe owned the last 4 minutes of that game on both ends. You can slobber on Bill Simmons cute little 6-24 stat all night long, but at the end of the day the 15 boards Kobe pulled down, and his relentless pushing the action at the rim to draw fouls in the fourth quarter was UNQUESTIONABLY the difference in that deciding game.

believe me there wasn't anything cute about 6-24 and the fact that you're getting so ridiculously riled about it only makes me think I'm right. 23 FTs in the 4th quarter... brought back shades of Game 6 2002 all over again.

now go ahead and swear or you use bold strokes to prove how much you mean what you say... but deep down you know I'm right, otherwise, why get so indignant about it?

 

[D-Dogg]

this is stupid. just because fisher gets away with this crap doesn't mean everyone else does.

BS, I was a PG, so I watch and bitch about PG play in every game I watch on every team. PGs offensively get away with sick amounts of hand contact, and defenders lean on them ALL the time...not just Fish...they all do it. Body to the pick, then push off, then hand on hip. There is so much effing contact on the perimeter that it makes me crazy, on both sides...in legitimately reffed games, you can't pull the crap that either offensive or defensive PGs pull in the NBA...it is my personal pet peeve about the sport.