Not even kinda close! (Jordan and Rose)

[slinslin]

It is not jealousy. Lebron is an all-around better player than MJ.

He is not the scorer MJ was but he is better at everything else already.

Lebron as a player is on a different level compared to anyone else in this league.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It is not jealousy. Lebron is an all-around better player than MJ.

He is not the scorer MJ was but he is better at everything else already.

Lebron as a player is on a different level compared to anyone else in this league.

Well, if you want to break it down like that then there are probably a few more players that are "better" than Jordan. However, you're ignoring the one thing that made Michael so unique. He had an incredible will to win and he drove his teammates to a level beyond anything they achieved before or after Jordan. I'll still take Michael in his prime over any player that's ever laced them up.

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

LeBron is without a doubt the most talented basketball player/most gifted athlete the NBA has probably ever seen, but that doesn't make him the best basketball player ever.

In a game that's just as much mental as it is physical, MJ has that in spades over LJ at this point in their careers. That's not to say LJ won't get there, but at this point, he's not there yet.

however, the potential IS there for him to end up as the greatest ever. There's literally never been a player like him and that seems like a pre-requisite to get into that conversation. But the biggest question is will he become single-minded, focus on nothing in the world BUT winning which made MJ what he is or does he go the Shaq route (which looks more likely to me) where his outrageous never seen before talent takes him to 3 or 4 titles alone, but never gets him to the run of dominance that MJ had because he's too focused on his "brand", not realizing that sheer dominance will brand you more than any marketing ever could.

 

[Lorenzo]

LeBron is without a doubt the most talented basketball player/most gifted athlete the NBA has probably ever seen, but that doesn't make him the best basketball player ever.

In a game that's just as much mental as it is physical, MJ has that in spades over LJ at this point in their careers. That's not to say LJ won't get there, but at this point, he's not there yet.

however, the potential IS there for him to end up as the greatest ever. There's literally never been a player like him and that seems like a pre-requisite to get into that conversation. But the biggest question is will he become single-minded, focus on nothing in the world BUT winning which made MJ what he is or does he go the Shaq route (which looks more likely to me) where his outrageous never seen before talent takes him to 3 or 4 titles alone, but never gets him to the run of dominance that MJ had because he's too focused on his "brand", not realizing that sheer dominance will brand you more than any marketing ever could.

MJ may not be the greatest player of all time. but he is the greatest player I have ever watched and it is not even close. as time goes on scottie pippen is falling out of the top 50 of all time and might have already fallen out of that group.

MJ had has the rings, has the defense, the offense, and the defense. he setup his teammates for so many clutch shots. his mental toughness is off the charts compared to any other player i've seen as well. lebron isn't even in my top 5 of all time at this point. MJ is the best player I have ever seen. period. end of story.

 

[Cheesebeef]

MJ may not be the greatest player of all time. but he is the greatest player I have ever watched and it is not even close. as time goes on scottie pippen is falling out of the top 50 of all time and might have already fallen out of that group.

MJ had has the rings, has the defense, the offense, and the defense. he setup his teammates for so many clutch shots. he is the best player I have ever seen. period. end of story.

since i can't speak to anything pre-1984-ish, i'd agree with this.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Why don't we let LeBron actually win something first. LeBron was a choker in clutch time as recently as December. Maybe he should perform consistently over a decent number of years before he is anointed.

BTW, doesn't Wilt figure in somewhere?

 

[mojorizen7]

MJ may not be the greatest player of all time. but he is the greatest player I have ever watched and it is not even close. as time goes on scottie pippen is falling out of the top 50 of all time and might have already fallen out of that group.

MJ had has the rings, has the defense, the offense, and the defense. he setup his teammates for so many clutch shots. his mental toughness is off the charts compared to any other player i've seen as well. lebron isn't even in my top 5 of all time at this point. MJ is the best player I have ever seen. period. end of story.

Agreed,especially the bolded part....he refused to lose and as a result he didn't.

 

[BC867]

Stupid words from a jealous man who should know personally that Jordan distributed the ball.

No one ever said that Pippin put his team first (refusing to go back in the game when his coach told him to) or has very much intelligence.

The whole world knows that Pippin's fame came from riding on MJ's coattails, and now he takes a shot at him? 'Not very smart. Especially with LeBron not having earned a reputation as the one Best Ever. Certainly not by becoming second fiddle to another superstar.

 

[Michael]

MJ had seven tough seasons with the franchise that drafted him. But he never gave up, and his will, determination and incredible skill eventually led him to the top. Once there, his teams were unbeatable.

LeBron had seven tough seasons with the franchise that drafted him. He gave up and joined two other superstars.

That's all the comparison I need, right there.

 

[slinslin]

lol

Because MJ didnt have superstars like Pippen and Rodman around him.

I'd say it is without a question that Pippen and Rodman are better supporting players than Wade and Bosh.

MJ already was on a big market team, Lebron was drafted to a horrible franchise and got them to the finals. Basically he had no tough years in Cleveland really. He was contending with crappy teammates anyway.

 

[Michael]

The Cavs management surrounded James with good shooters and tried their all to improve the team as good as it got. Mo Williams is a better point guard than MJ ever had. Antawn Jamison is another All-Star. Varejo is not that far off in terms of contribution to the team as Horace Grant was in the early nineties.
LeBron had Shaq, who, even at that age, was likely at least as helpful as a combination of Bill Cartwright or Luc and Bill.

Pippen and Grant were drafted by the Bulls (or traded on draft day in case of Pippen) and only became solid players/ stars with MJ. He didn't demand to get better players, he took whomever he had on his team and lifted them to another level. As for Rodman, he was an absolute freak that everybody feared would ruin team chemistry. There is a reason that San Antonio traded him for Will Perdue, after all. Rodman didn't have much respect for David Robinson, but he had every bit for MJ. Would he have had it for a self-made 'king'?

The thing is, MJ made his teammates better. LeBron left them.

 

[Lorenzo]

lol

Because MJ didnt have superstars like Pippen and Rodman around him.

I'd say it is without a question that Pippen and Rodman are better supporting players than Wade and Bosh.

MJ already was on a big market team, Lebron was drafted to a horrible franchise and got them to the finals. Basically he had no tough years in Cleveland really. He was contending with crappy teammates anyway.

this is a dumb arguement. MJ is better than lebron. maybe one day lebron will be in this arguement. but as of yet no there is no comparison.

for me lebron is nowhere near the fierce competitior that jordan is. lebron is clearly not as mentally tough as jordan is. but it just might be our culture of today's athlete. so that is not a knock on james.

 

[TJ]

] Certainly not by becoming second fiddle to another superstar.

Who is LBJ playing second fiddle to? Just because he joined a team with another perennial all-star already on the payroll does not mean he is taking a back seat to him. As a matter of fact, LBJ has become a much bigger presence on the court for the Heat than Wade. In addition, even with Wade on the team, James has been able to keep himself in line with his career stats. And his shooting% is much improved. Also, LBJ has been playing like a man possessed in the playoffs. He truly is playing like one of the greatest of all time.

Moreover, LeBron leads the team in most major statistical categories on the team (ppg, apg, stls). D Wade leads in none.

It is possible for two player to be 1 and 1a and compliment each other and not juxtapose them. But for argument sake, if we are comparing D Wade to LBJ as individual players: Wade will go down as a great player and potential 1st ballot HoFer. LeBron has the opportunity to go down as one of the top 5 players of all time.

 

[Covert Rain]

lol

Because MJ didnt have superstars like Pippen and Rodman around him.

I'd say it is without a question that Pippen and Rodman are better supporting players than Wade and Bosh.

MJ already was on a big market team, Lebron was drafted to a horrible franchise and got them to the finals. Basically he had no tough years in Cleveland really. He was contending with crappy teammates anyway.

Your insane if your trying to compare put Pippen or Rodman on the same level as Wade IMO. Rodman was one dimensional and great at what he did. Pippen needed Jordan much more than Jordan needed Pippen. Wade can be a #1 option as he has proved. Pippen never proved that minus Jordan.

Neither Pippen or Rodman could ever carry a team or be the #1 option. Wade can and has done that. Wade is not a "supporting" player. Wade is a legit 1st team Superstar.

Bosh? I could see putting Bosh on the same level a Pippen and Rodman. That is fair.

However, LeBron and Wade on the team is the same as putting 2 of this generations go to guys on the same team. Not the same.

 

[TJ]

lol

Because MJ didnt have superstars like Pippen and Rodman around him.

I'd say it is without a question that Pippen and Rodman are better supporting players than Wade and Bosh.

MJ already was on a big market team, Lebron was drafted to a horrible franchise and got them to the finals. Basically he had no tough years in Cleveland really. He was contending with crappy teammates anyway.

What about Horace Grant? Bulls won 3 championships with him as the 3rd man as well. Not in the same category as Rodman.

And no, Pippen and Rodman are not better collectively than Wade and Bosh. While Rodman is better than Bosh IMO, Wade is more talented than Pippen. It's a toss up. The concept of having three all-star players on one team is the same, but does not go towards the underlying argument of MJ v. LBJ.

MJ could do all of the things LBJ can, but MJ was a better scorer by virtue of the fact he was a better shooter (FGs and FTs). He also had more of an intimidating presence on the floor, which commanded respect from both his teammates and the opposition. I'm not 100% sure LBJ has the same effect simply due to the fact he has no rings and his "jumping ship." This will take years and 'ships in order to abdicate.

This is not to say he can't be just as good, if not better. LBJ has a long career ahead of him, but he also has a long way to go to catch His Airness.

 

[SirStefan32]

The most important difference between MJ and James is that MJ was never a whinny little bitch. That alone makes him a better player than LeBron will ever be.

 

[Lorenzo]

the only way that I can see this as an arguement is if you have a young kid that never watched michael play.

or if you are saying lebron has the POTENTIAL to be better than jordan. I think from day one we saw that with lebron and a few other players like kobe to name one. but at some point lebron has to develop into that player. to this point he has not. bring this thread back out of the archive in a few years and then we will see.

 

[Lorenzo]

The most important difference between MJ and James is that MJ was never a whinny little bitch. That alone makes him a better player than LeBron will ever be.

lol true. switched teams to make it easier on himself.

I'm not being critical of james in a negative way. I believe in working smarter not harder. I think I might have left cleveland for south beach too if I were him. But michael could have won a ring as a cav(i believe).

 

[TJ]

lol true. switched teams to make it easier on himself.

I'm not being critical of james in a negative way. I believe in working smarter not harder. I think I might have left cleveland for south beach too if I were him. But michael could have won a ring as a cav(i believe).

I would do the same if the front office lacked the competence to build an actual team around him. LBJ's supporting cast was average at best. Mo Williams was good, but not the difference maker. We saw how Cleveland went from first to worst in one day. Jordan couldnt do anything until Horace, Scottie and Phil Jackson showed up. Kobe couldn't do anything after Shaq left. And it wasnt until the lopsided Gasol deal was initiated before the Lakers could be contenders again. A great player can only do so much

I wouldn't consider him whiny at all. I really can't think of an instance where he came off as such. I know "The Decision" was pretentious, but the media largely precipitated it based on asking him for three years what he was going to do when his contract was up. Knick fans were making custom James jerseys with the belief he was going to end up in NY. Bulls fans were already anointing him as Jordan v 2.0 as soon as he signed. He finally had to tell the media to stop asking him about free agency.

Hindsight, it wasn't the best decision, but at least the proceeds from that show went to the Boys and Girls club. At least LeBron feels the same.

 

[Lorenzo]

I would do the same if the front office lacked the competence to build an actual team around him. LBJ's supporting cast was average at best. Mo Williams was good, but not the difference maker. We saw how Cleveland went from first to worst in one day.

I wouldn't consider him whiny at all. I really can't think of an instance where he came off as such. I know "The Decision" was pretentious, but the media largely precipitated it based on asking him for three years what he was going to do when his contract was up. Knick fans were making custom James jerseys with the belief he was going to end up in NY. Bulls fans were already anointing him as Jordan v 2.0 as soon as he signed. He finally had to tell the media to stop asking him about free agency.

Hindsight, it wasn't the best decision, but at least the proceeds from that show went to the Boys and Girls club. At least LeBron feels the same.

I agree and I disagree. I agree that if i had to choose between miami and cleveland I would choose miami too. but I was surprised in how it went down(all of it). and I can't see the ultimate alpha male guy like MJ doing some of the things that lebron does. yes there are haters and there are always going to be haters, but the fact remains that until proven otherwise MJ is clearly a better player than lebron to this point. bring this thread up when lebron wins some titles and I think he will once they get some better support aside from the big 3.

 

[TJ]

I agree and I disagree. I agree that if i had to choose between miami and cleveland I would choose miami too. but I was surprised in how it went down(all of it). and I can't see the ultimate alpha male guy like MJ doing some of the things that lebron does. yes there are haters and there are always going to be haters, but the fact remains that until proven otherwise MJ is clearly a better player than lebron to this point. bring this thread up when lebron wins some titles and I think he will once they get some better support aside from the big 3.

At the same time, the alpha male can only accept mediocrity and disappointment for so long. It reminds me of my last job as an account manager in the transportation industry. The company refused to make simple adjustments to make itself more competitive in the industry while others continued to improve and operate more profitable. Even with several years of sales experience, training, and documented success, I couldn't market the product anymore, especially when the economy tanked. The end was in sight and I could see the company folding within a few years. It was a kill or be killed moment for me. I decided to not only leave, but am in the process of re-careering.

What if the Bulls never got Pippen, Horace and Phil Jackson? Do they ever get past Detroit, who owned them in the 80's? Does MJ stay? It's quite feasible (and likely IMO) that he would pack his bags much like LBJ did. Kobe, another alpha male, had one foot out of L.A. before Gasol showed up.

The ultimate prize for the ultimate competitor in athletics is major championships. And if you're genuinely a player who strives to win, you'll do whatever it takes within the rules to hold a trophy and wear a ring.

 

[Magnus]

I agree with TJ.

The way Lebron went was wrong, but I don't see what's wrong with the general idea. Cleveland was just a poor team, and in all the years that he was there, they couldn't assemble a decent supporting cast. And one man can only do so much.
So Bosh, Wade and James settled for less money so that they could play together and win. I don't see what's wrong with that, except being unfair to the other teams haha. Well, grow up and beat them.

It's not like Jordan would have won if it wasn't for Pippen, Grant, Rodman... Basketball is a team sport after all. Yes he was the best, but would that be good enough, if he was the only one? Questionable, unlikely.

On a side note, I wonder if Lebron's decision would be criticized as much if he went to the Lakers. Maybe that would make it ok? Like the Gasol deal.

 

[elindholm]

What people don't like about James's decision was the year-long tease he put on the Cavaliers, their fans, and the city of Cleveland. He wanted to see how much they would beg for him, just to satisfy his ego, and then he went out of his way to publicly humiliate them. I don't remember the details of when O'Neal left Orlando for the Lakers, but I do remember that he didn't go out of his way to build the Magic's hopes up, only to get a cynical thrill by dashing those hopes later. Bosh is a lesser star, but he also managed to find a way to leave the Raptors and Toronto with some dignity following his departure.

As for the Heat dominating the next several years, I already knew that the Suns would not be winning a title in the near future, so I don't care who wins instead.

 

[Gee!]

When its all said and done I believe LBJ will be the second greatest player ever behind Jordan.. He'll bump Magic down to third..

 

[Mainstreet]

When its all said and done I believe LBJ will be the second greatest player ever behind Jordan.. He'll bump Magic down to third..

That would be a real shame because Magic was one of the best players I have seen play. If Magic had not become ill he would have had a much longer career. Before his illness there was talk of him switching to PF when he got older. What a loss to the game. How many players can play every position on a team and do it well from PG to center.

Also Kareem should be thrown into the mix of best players of all time conversation.