Now its about #16, 31, and 59

[Cheesebeef]

As the resident Clippers fan and more, that trade makes no sense.

Agreed.

 

[Hoop Head]

How did that second unit fare last year again? Not that hot in my memory!

Our 2nd unit is garbage. No one that was part of it last year should be considered safe or having a spot in it going forward with the exception of Troy Daniels. He was the only bright spot throughout the season and since he's on a small contract, paying him about $2.5 million next season, he's the only player who should have a spot in next years rotation. He's also a good shooter and we need shooters. Len is as good as gone, Ulis is most likely on his way out, Williams will be waived because the Suns won't pay $6 million next year, Reed showed very little but is an option to be kept on a Two-Way contract. It sucks that are bench is horrible because we really don't have the luxury of being able to spend a lot of time and money reconstructing it but we do have a lot of draft picks that we can use to try and find players that are ready to contribute or trading some of the picks for veterans that teams are looking to unload because of their cap numbers. Something like how we got Troy Daniels last year.

Warren and Daniels as our 2nd unit is a good start, we'll also have either Bender or Chriss there as well. We'll need a PG and a big. Knight could be that PG. Knight, Daniels, and Warren could be a solid scoring trio to bring in to help us keep pace with our opponents. They don't defend well but they should be able to score in bunches.

 

[Phrazbit]

I suspect all of those guys are horrible (I'm sure Ulis has no NBA future), but it is hard to evaluate when you're tanking and you have no legit ball handlers, other than Booker.

A good offensive PG would make it way easier to evaluate guys like Chriss, Bender, Len and even Warren (whom I think is solid rotation player, not a good starter).

 

[elindholm]

Our 2nd unit is garbage. No one that was part of it last year should be considered safe or having a spot in it going forward with the exception of Troy Daniels. He was the only bright spot throughout the season and since he's on a small contract, paying him about $2.5 million next season, he's the only player who should have a spot in next years rotation. He's also a good shooter and we need shooters. Len is as good as gone, Ulis is most likely on his way out, Williams will be waived because the Suns won't pay $6 million next year, Reed showed very little but is an option to be kept on a Two-Way contract.

I agree with all of this except the Williams comment. According to hoopshype, his $5.5 million for 2018-19 is guaranteed; the team option year isn't until 2019-20. Maybe the Suns will waive him anyway, but that doesn't make much sense, since their salary situation for next year is fine. And, as you point out, the team needs backup big men. Even if Ayton is drafted and Chandler is retained (and healthy), there's room on the roster for someone like Williams.

Speaking of "someone like Williams," I wonder what the market for Kyle O'Quinn will be. He's older (28) and will never be more than a bench player, but he put up great per-minute numbers last season and the Knicks probably can't afford to retain him.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'd be surprised if Ulis gets more than a Two-Way contract somewhere next year. Williams was a good story in the 2017 season but that has been played out and it's time to build a team that can compete. He could be a good practice body though. I don't expect we'll see Shaq Harrison again, except maybe on the Northern AZ Suns. Danuel House is a goner. Canaan stands an outside shot at being our 3rd PG. Alec Peters might join the G-League team but it won't be a Two-Way deal and Reed will probably have his contract converted to a Two-Way contract. If we keep both 2nd round picks this year then Reed may be out of a job. I can't see him kept as part of our 15 man roster with how little he showed last year. We have 4 draft picks and that doesn't bode well for him. Acquiring Daniels last year put his role in jeopardy.

 

[Hoop Head]

I agree with all of this except the Williams comment. According to hoopshype, his $5.5 million for 2018-19 is guaranteed; the team option year isn't until 2019-20. Maybe the Suns will waive him anyway, but that doesn't make much sense, since their salary situation for next year is fine. And, as you point out, the team needs backup big men. Even if Ayton is drafted and Chandler is retained (and healthy), there's room on the roster for someone like Williams.

Speaking of "someone like Williams," I wonder what the market for Kyle O'Quinn will be. He's older (28) and will never be more than a bench player, but he put up great per-minute numbers last season and the Knicks probably can't afford to retain him.

I'll have to dig it up but his contract for next season is not guaranteed. I posted a Bordow article mentioning that before. Hoopshype is probably the only site that lists it differently because Spotrac has it as non-guaranteed, here is a link to that. It becomes guaranteed July 6th.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/phoenix-suns/alan-williams-18820/

I'll look for the Bordow article. It's been mentioned by others though.

 

[Hoop Head]

Here's Bordow's roster breakdown from the end of the season.

It’s been a lost season for Williams, who’s played in only five games after offseason knee surgery. Williams is a fan favorite and can be a useful big off the bench, but his $5.5 million salary next season is not guaranteed and Phoenix might decide to use that money in free agency.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...evin-booker-josh-jackson-offseason/499608002/

 

[elindholm]

I'll have to dig it up but his contract for next season is not guaranteed. I posted a Bordow article mentioning that before. Hoopshype is probably the only site that lists it differently because Spotrac has it as non-guaranteed, here is a link to that. It becomes guaranteed July 6th.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/phoenix-suns/alan-williams-18820/

Hmm. Well, even so, unless his health is an issue, it doesn't make a lot of sense for the Suns to give up on him.

 

[BC867]

Hmm. Well, even so, unless his health is an issue, it doesn't make a lot of sense for the Suns to give up on him.

As much as Williams on the roster would be a feel good story, there is a reason to give up on him. If he would be blocking a roster spot for a mid-career Center backup. Unless that roster spot would be taken by a Forward, leaving only Chandler to back up Ayton. Then there is reason to keep Williams.

 

[pokerface]

As the resident Clippers fan and more, that trade makes no sense.

Ahh...you would know better than me

 

[Mr. Boldin]

I'll have to dig it up but his contract for next season is not guaranteed. I posted a Bordow article mentioning that before. Hoopshype is probably the only site that lists it differently because Spotrac has it as non-guaranteed, here is a link to that. It becomes guaranteed July 6th.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/phoenix-suns/alan-williams-18820/

I'll look for the Bordow article. It's been mentioned by others though.

Its non-guaranteed, and he also has a minute, weight, and body fat clause that can trigger $1M guaranteed until July 6 2018 and 2019. Not sure the exact details on that, but its something to consider if the Suns dont waive him and keep him on the roster for next season.

 

[Hoop Head]

Its non-guaranteed, and he also has a minute, weight, and body fat clause that can trigger $1M guaranteed until July 6 2018 and 2019. Not sure the exact details on that, but its something to consider if the Suns dont waive him and keep him on the roster for next season.

Didn't know they had clauses like that in the NBA. I knew the NFL had clauses like that. Got to get Chriss on one of those. Doubt it can be worked into a rookie contract though.

I could see him being waived and brought back on a minimum deal. Not sure how that would work but since it's the offseason I don't think it would be an issue, especially if he's fine with that. I know players that are traded can't be re-acquired for a year. They may be able to rework the contract but that doesn't happen too often in the NBA either.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Didn't know they had clauses like that in the NBA. I knew the NFL had clauses like that. Got to get Chriss on one of those. Doubt it can be worked into a rookie contract though.

Chriss messed up but some of the blame should go to Watson, in fact I'm surprised no one else is pointing fingers that way. Watson told him in his exit interview that he was going to play a lot more center this season so he decided to bulk up. Apparently he used that as an excuse to eat whatever he wanted but prior to that I've never heard any concerns over his conditioning.

 

[elindholm]

I could see him being waived and brought back on a minimum deal.

They have to pay him if they waive him, so if they plan to have him on the roster, there's no point at all in waiving him first.

 

[Hoop Head]

They have to pay him if they waive him, so if they plan to have him on the roster, there's no point at all in waiving him first.

If they waive him before his deal is guaranteed for this next season they won't have to pay him anything. He'll be a free agent and should be able to be signed to a minimum contract. They could sign someone for the league minimum after they've used all of their cap space also, so they would be better off going that route unless he can get a better deal elsewhere. Considering he's coming of an injury I'm not certain another team will offer more than a minimum contract.

 

[Errntknght]

As much as Williams on the roster would be a feel good story, there is a reason to give up on him. If he would be blocking a roster spot for a mid-career Center backup. Unless that roster spot would be taken by a Forward, leaving only Chandler to back up Ayton. Then there is reason to keep Williams.

If Williams returns to pre-injury form, he's better than Chandler on both ends of the floor, so don't overlook that small point.

Davon Reed looked awful after he came back from injury but he looked very good in the summer league - bringing strong D and decent shooting on 3's. I'm not at all ready to give up on him before we see him after a full summer of work. The same goes for Alec Peters - his 3 was coming around by years and and I love the fact that he rarely turns the ball over. Even though Triano only let him play in very short stints he still came up with overall stats better than Bender or Chriss.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If Williams returns to pre-injury form, he's better than Chandler on both ends of the floor, so don't overlook that small point.

Davon Reed looked awful after he came back from injury but he looked very good in the summer league - bringing strong D and decent shooting on 3's. I'm not at all ready to give up on him before we see him after a full summer of work. The same goes for Alec Peters - his 3 was coming around by years and and I love the fact that he rarely turns the ball over. Even though Triano only let him play in very short stints he still came up with overall stats better than Bender or Chriss.

Yeah I’d like to see some more from reed and even peters (can’t believe I typed the latter - but that single late season single game performance piqued my curiosity).

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Didn't know they had clauses like that in the NBA. I knew the NFL had clauses like that. Got to get Chriss on one of those. Doubt it can be worked into a rookie contract though.

I could see him being waived and brought back on a minimum deal. Not sure how that would work but since it's the offseason I don't think it would be an issue, especially if he's fine with that. I know players that are traded can't be re-acquired for a year. They may be able to rework the contract but that doesn't happen too often in the NBA either.

There are all kind of incentive bonuses in the NBA, not all that typical unless for all NBA, all star, ect. But I have seen some for field goal percentage, minutes played, weight at camp, ect.

Regarding Williams, I dont see the point in waiving him, let alone him coming back on a minimum deal. That is, pending their offseasons plans and if they need the roster spot.

 

[Hoop Head]

It's really their cap holds that will hurt them. Len and Payton will be about $17 million, Len is $10 on his own and will be rescinded quickly to free up that money but they'll only have about $12 million in cap space after letting dropping Len's rights. They can get close to $20 million by not giving Payton a qualifying offer but that's not guaranteed. If they hope to have enough cap space to sign anyone worthwhile they'll need to drop Williams and Ulis in addition to Payton, which should get them about $25 million in cap space. They might even have less than that because of the cap holds for their draft picks. I guess it depends on what their free agency plans are. They do have a little bit of time to decide with Williams and Ulis because their contracts aren't guaranteed until July 6th, which gives them 5 days to negotiate with free agents to see if they'll need that money elsewhere. It won't surprise me to see Williams dropped.

We're not signing anyone to a max deal this summer but if they plan on making a serious run at Aaron Gordon, they'll need to let those guys go or find a taker for Chandler or Dudley, or use the stretch provision on one of them. It's unlikely they stretch Chandler since he'll be a good mentor for Ayton but we'll see. They could have other plans. Hopefully their plans are better than having Mark West work with him like they've done with other bigs. West is great but he was far from a great player.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It's really their cap holds that will hurt them. Len and Payton will be about $17 million, Len is $10 on his own and will be rescinded quickly to free up that money but they'll only have about $12 million in cap space after letting dropping Len's rights. They can get close to $20 million by not giving Payton a qualifying offer but that's not guaranteed. If they hope to have enough cap space to sign anyone worthwhile they'll need to drop Williams and Ulis in addition to Payton, which should get them about $25 million in cap space. They might even have less than that because of the cap holds for their draft picks. I guess it depends on what their free agency plans are. They do have a little bit of time to decide with Williams and Ulis because their contracts aren't guaranteed until July 6th, which gives them 5 days to negotiate with free agents to see if they'll need that money elsewhere. It won't surprise me to see Williams dropped.

We're not signing anyone to a max deal this summer but if they plan on making a serious run at Aaron Gordon, they'll need to let those guys go or find a taker for Chandler or Dudley, or use the stretch provision on one of them. It's unlikely they stretch Chandler since he'll be a good mentor for Ayton but we'll see. They could have other plans. Hopefully their plans are better than having Mark West work with him like they've done with other bigs. West is great but he was far from a great player.

OK. Let's consider that line up, if Gordon is their target and they dump Len, Payton, Ulis, and Williams.

Knight, Shaq
Booker, Daniels
JJ, TJ
Gordon, Bender, Chriss
Ayton, Chandler

JJ and Gordon are decent defensively. I think Ayton will be OK defensively at the center from the beginning. Shaq can defend at pg. What else would that team need from the draft or trade, because that blows their free agency wad. That team needs more three point shooting. You need either Young or Doncic.

First, one of Bender or Chriss has to go. Just has to. Probably the one with the most present value which would be Bender.

I just don't see it Aaron Gordon is good, but his limitations are significant and his skill set does not fit with Ayton and JJ nearly as well as Bender.

 

[Hoop Head]

OK. Let's consider that line up, if Gordon is their target and they dump Len, Payton, Ulis, and Williams.

Knight, Shaq
Booker, Daniels
JJ, TJ
Gordon, Bender, Chriss
Ayton, Chandler

JJ and Gordon are decent defensively. I think Ayton will be OK defensively at the center from the beginning. Shaq can defend at pg. What else would that team need from the draft or trade, because that blows their free agency wad. That team needs more three point shooting. You need either Young or Doncic.

First, one of Bender or Chriss has to go. Just has to. Probably the one with the most present value which would be Bender.

I just don't see it Aaron Gordon is good, but his limitations are significant and his skill set does not fit with Ayton and JJ nearly as well as Bender.

I'm not for going after Gordon, I used him as an example. A lot of people have talked about going after Gordon or Jabari Parker, even Julius Randle. I think Randle would be the cheapest of the 3 but Parker or Gordon will cost about the same, somewhere in the $20 million range. I'm not sure what the Suns plan to do. How they talked before getting the #1 pick seemed to indicate they were looking to make a splash in free agency and other than Capella, Gordon and Parker are the only other free agents that fill a need and could be available.

We definitely need shooters, regardless of who is signed in free agency. We'll probably look to draft a shooter at #16 or trade for one with that pick. Williams, Len, Payton, and Ulis don't fill our shooting need, so keeping them doesn't do a lot to address our needs. I'm not sure how the team will address things in free agency but the players that will be on the market don't exactly match our needs that well. McD has been consistent on saying we'll be players this summer though so surely there is a plan of some sort. I just can't figure out what it is.

 

[AZCrazy]

Trade 16, 31 ,59, Chriss, and Ulis for #7. Get Trae Young. We don't have room for four more rookies on this team, but need a young shooter/distributor. We'll have to count on growing them defensively, and using Ayton and Jackson as the primary defenders, and run a high octane offense better than yours to win games. That'll complete the tank and rebuild job entirely. Get a big free agent of some manner, and your team is complete, two deep at every spot with starter quality guys.

 

[Raze]

Trade 16, 31 ,59, Chriss, and Ulis for #7. Get Trae Young. We don't have room for four more rookies on this team, but need a young shooter/distributor. We'll have to count on growing them defensively, and using Ayton and Jackson as the primary defenders, and run a high octane offense better than yours to win games. That'll complete the tank and rebuild job entirely. Get a big free agent of some manner, and your team is complete, two deep at every spot with starter quality guys.

I think adding Trae Young would be wildly entertaining. However, it won't win us a championship.

Harden has Paul.
Steph has Klay.

The precedent is that if your star guard is a bad defender, then the other guard must be VERY good at it. With Young I think we'd be a tad better than Portland is with Lillard and McCollum. We'd never be what Houston and GS are.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Jevon Carter guys. He can defend both guard positions but especially small fast guards. He shoots 40% from the three and he is more of a pass first guard. He is a senior so there is some maturity and he is ready to play. The real kicker? We could easily draft him at #16 and there is a good chance he would be available at #31.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think adding Trae Young would be wildly entertaining. However, it won't win us a championship.

Harden has Paul.
Steph has Klay.

The precedent is that if your star guard is a bad defender, then the other guard must be VERY good at it. With Young I think we'd be a tad better than Portland is with Lillard and McCollum. We'd never be what Houston and GS are.

A tad better than Portland? We would also have JJ and Ayton two massively talented guys that Portland doesn’t come close to having.