Nuggets @ Suns 11-8-13

[Sci Fi]

McDonough has had the Midas touch so far. Every move has looked brilliant so far. Bledsoe, Hornacek, Plumlee , Green, and a pick for Scola. Len is the only move that doesn't already smell of roses.

A clue for Suns fans. Len was an absolutely GREAT pick.

 

[BC867]

Jeff Hornacek is looking like a genius!

In six games so far, the Suns are 3-0 at home (best in the Division) and 1-2 on the road (2nd best in the Division). Without Dragic in the last three games.

Jeff goes 12 deep to keep his players on their toes vs. D'Antoni's 7 deep. Jeff's team plays defense vs. 'Antoni's -- oh, never mind. Jeff is teaching and playing guys with little experience vs. Mickey D' saying it wasn't his job.

And even when we blew the lead vs. the Nuggets in the 3rd quarter, we were able to take it back in the 4th.

In a very short time, Jeff Hornacek is looking like a genius in his first Head Coaching experience! It shouldn't be a surprise. As a young Suns player, he used to diagram plays on the palm of his hand during timeouts.

'Lookin' good! Build a winning attitude and add a key free agent during the off-season and we're back in business.

 

[elindholm]

I think Gortat was hurting last year's Suns more than he was helping. He was inept at finishing around the basket, whereas Plumlee makes it look fairly easy. Gortat is a better player overall, of course, but that weakness of his was really glaring. And I think his lousy attitude hurt team chemistry more than we realized.

Marcus Morris is benefitting from the association with his brother. I'm tired of hearing "the Morris twins" this that and the other. Markieff is playing very well, but Marcus sucks. He has almost as many turnovers (15) as made baskets (16). If Marcus Morris were named Marcus Jones, it would be obvious how badly he's been playing.

 

[Sci Fi]

I think Gortat was hurting last year's Suns more than he was helping. He was inept at finishing around the basket, whereas Plumlee makes it look fairly easy. Gortat is a better player overall, of course, but that weakness of his was really glaring. And I think his lousy attitude hurt team chemistry more than we realized.

Marcus Morris is benefitting from the association with his brother. I'm tired of saying "the Morris twins" this that and the other. Markieff is playing very well, but Marcus sucks. He has almost as many turnovers (15) as made baskets (16). If Marcus Morris were named Marcus Jones, it would be obvious how badly he's been playing.

This is funny.

 

[JS22]

In six games so far, the Suns are 3-0 at home (best in the Division) and 1-2 on the road (2nd best in the Division). Without Dragic in the last three games.

Jeff goes 12 deep to keep his players on their toes vs. D'Antoni's 7 deep. Jeff's team plays defense vs. 'Antoni's -- oh, never mind. Jeff is teaching and playing guys with little experience vs. Mickey D' saying it wasn't his job.

And even when we blew the lead vs. the Nuggets in the 3rd quarter, we were able to take it back in the 4th.

In a very short time, Jeff Hornacek is looking like a genius in his first Head Coaching experience! It shouldn't be a surprise. As a young Suns player, he used to diagram plays on the palm of his hand during timeouts.

'Lookin' good! Build a winning attitude and add a key free agent during the off-season and we're back in business.

My God...BC is happy with something? Shut down the internet!

But I agree completely. It's amazing how different this team is early on. Refreshing. And easily the most enjoyable to watch since the Nash / Amare years. I know it's super early and things could come crashing down hard and fast. But I'm enjoying it for now.

 

[sunsfan88]

A clue for Suns fans. Len was an absolutely GREAT pick.

Way too early to say that.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Way too early to say that.

I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm on steroids. I think it's too early to say anything about Len, pro or con and it will be for quite some time. I'm expecting nothing from him this year and it might be another 4 or 5 years before he really starts showing what he can do. That's what happens with true centers especially ones that come into the league as raw as Len was. Throw in the injury issues and it's an even longer wait if it happens at all. I wish we had made another pick although I won't be shocked if he plays like Hibbert in a half dozen years.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

It's amazing how calm this team is yet thy play fast. John Wooden said it. " play fast but dont hurry"

 

[Phrazbit]

I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm on steroids. I think it's too early to say anything about Len, pro or con and it will be for quite some time. I'm expecting nothing from him this year and it might be another 4 or 5 years before he really starts showing what he can do. That's what happens with true centers especially ones that come into the league as raw as Len was. Throw in the injury issues and it's an even longer wait if it happens at all. I wish we had made another pick although I won't be shocked if he plays like Hibbert in a half dozen years.

Steve

I don't think sci fi has sarcasm in his repertoire.

 

[Phrazbit]

This team has some polarizing players right now. Once 82games releases their statistics I expect that Bledsoe, Plumlee and Tucker are are going to show a huge impact on the positive side. While Frye, Marcus Morris and Goodwin will probably be deep on the wrong side of the ledger. And I have no idea how Green will be portrayed, each time he is in he seems to do a few things amazing and a few things that demonstrate a total lack of basketball IQ.

I cant get a handle on Markieff. Even when he plays well he has a lot of positive outcomes on plays that look very sloppy. Maybe opposing defenses are playing him wrong as they expect him to spot up for 3s, maybe he is getting lucky... or... maybe I am just grossly underestimating him. But last season he was an absolutely awful player, I just cant imagine he improved this much in one summer.

 

[frdbtr]

the team looks sloppy because they haven't spent a lot of time together on the court yet. Just think of the potential and what they can do as they get more and more familiar with each others tendancies.

 

[AfroSuns]

the team looks sloppy because they haven't spent a lot of time together on the court yet. Just think of the potential and what they can do as they get more and more familiar with each others tendancies.

That was my thinking too. I imagine they will get better as the season progresses.

 

[Jay Cardinal]

What an impressive victory last night. I kind of gave up on the NBA/Suns for the last few years, but have managed to catch the last couple of games. Here is what stood out to me.

1. Great coaching. Hornacek is on the fast track to Coach of the year. He has his team focusing on what they (and any team can do) hustle on defense, and pass to the open shooter. Sounds simple, but it is destroying today's NBA that is full of isolation play. The best part is it appears Hornacek know when to change it up. I saw Tucker/Morris/Plumlee all beat their individual matchups on offense. When the got position, I saw good entry passes. The offense is making very wise choices at this point in the season.

2. Defense. This defensive backcourt is really good. I suspect teams will stop throwing lazy passes when Bledsoe, Tucker, and Green are on the floor. I don't think I can remember a backcourt that plays this hard on defense.

3. Talent evaluation. Lon Babby hired McDonough and Hornacek. Both have performed really well at their jobs. As mentioned in earlier posts Plumlee, Markieff Morris, and Eric Bledsoe are much more talented than myself and many other posters had initially thought. It appears Hornacek and McDounough work together well and have a strategy that can be succesful on the court.

 

[BC867]

My God...BC is happy with something? Shut down the internet!

Ever since the flaws showed in D'Antoni's 7-man rotations/defense--hah!/not his job to develop young players and Sarver trying to be GM, there hasn't been much to be happy with as a Suns fan. Do you agree with that?

 

[AzStevenCal]

This team has some polarizing players right now. Once 82games releases their statistics I expect that Bledsoe, Plumlee and Tucker are are going to show a huge impact on the positive side. While Frye, Marcus Morris and Goodwin will probably be deep on the wrong side of the ledger. And I have no idea how Green will be portrayed, each time he is in he seems to do a few things amazing and a few things that demonstrate a total lack of basketball IQ.

I cant get a handle on Markieff. Even when he plays well he has a lot of positive outcomes on plays that look very sloppy. Maybe opposing defenses are playing him wrong as they expect him to spot up for 3s, maybe he is getting lucky... or... maybe I am just grossly underestimating him. But last season he was an absolutely awful player, I just cant imagine he improved this much in one summer.

Except he wasn't. He was a very inconsistent player, often tiimes he was average or slightly above and sometimes he was well below that and occasionally he showed glimpses of actually being a good player. Unfortunately most of the Suns fan-base tuned out of the actual games last season because the results weren't good and the play itself was boring. But I commented on more than one occasion that the guy showed signs of what he could be which made his down-nights even more frustrating. I can't understand how someone can look like a smart player out there one night and yet look clueless the next but Markieff has mastered it, whatever it is.

One more problem is that it really is difficult sometimes to distinguish between the two brothers (someone else already pointed this out but it's worth mentioning again) and each is influencing the appearance of the other Markieff is raising up his brother's image and Marcus is doing the reverse to Markieff). Anyway, here's hoping Kieff is turning a corner instead of just showing us another aspect of his inconsistent play.

Steve

 

[BC867]

Except he wasn't. He was a very inconsistent player, often tiimes he was average or slightly above and sometimes he was well below that and occasionally he showed glimpses of actually being a good player. Unfortunately most of the Suns fan-base tuned out of the actual games last season because the results weren't good and the play itself was boring. But I commented on more than one occasion that the guy showed signs of what he could be which made his down-nights even more frustrating. I can't understand how someone can look like a smart player out there one night and yet look clueless the next but Markieff has mastered it, whatever it is.

The difference is Jeff Hornacek. He has Markieff playing like a Power Forward. A quick Power Forward, but a Power Forward. No longer a carbon copy of Channing Frye.

One more problem is that it really is difficult sometimes to distinguish between the two brothers (someone else already pointed this out but it's worth mentioning again) and each is influencing the appearance of the other Markieff is raising up his brother's image and Marcus is doing the reverse to Markieff). Anyway, here's hoping Kieff is turning a corner instead of just showing us another aspect of his inconsistent play.

True! One twin is bound to be better/worse than the other. Treating them as Siamese twins is not helping.

The skill levels of the VanArsdale's was so different, treating them as one would have been ludicrous. The Morris's started out too close to equal (although Markieff seemed somewhat better right from their first time together with the Suns).

 

[JS22]

Ever since the flaws showed in D'Antoni's 7-man rotations/defense--hah!/not his job to develop young players and Sarver trying to be GM, there hasn't been much to be happy with as a Suns fan. Do you agree with that?

100%.

Dantoni's role in rejecting Rondo still bothers me. "It's not my job to develop rookies."

 

[Mainstreet]

This team has some polarizing players right now. Once 82games releases their statistics I expect that Bledsoe, Plumlee and Tucker are are going to show a huge impact on the positive side. While Frye, Marcus Morris and Goodwin will probably be deep on the wrong side of the ledger. And I have no idea how Green will be portrayed, each time he is in he seems to do a few things amazing and a few things that demonstrate a total lack of basketball IQ.

I cant get a handle on Markieff. Even when he plays well he has a lot of positive outcomes on plays that look very sloppy. Maybe opposing defenses are playing him wrong as they expect him to spot up for 3s, maybe he is getting lucky... or... maybe I am just grossly underestimating him. But last season he was an absolutely awful player, I just cant imagine he improved this much in one summer.

Just a thought that keeps coming up. I can't help but think Plumlee has inspired Markieff to play harder inside. Practicing against Plumlee, he knows he can't put up that soft stuff inside. Maybe a little competition has done him good.

 

[JCSunsfan]

100%.

Dantoni's role in rejecting Rondo still bothers me. "It's not my job to develop rookies."

Yep. Hornacek, West, and the rest of the coaching staff is showing just how valuable it is to develop rookies. It is true, though, that this is a rebuilding team and that was a contending team. But I am still convinced that some vet players get way more minutes than they should based upon what they used to do rather than what they are capable of doing now. Many coaches cannot objectively look at what is happening in front of them.

This is why the NBA desperately needs a better developed D-League.

 

[JustWinBaby]

100%.

Dantoni's role in rejecting Rondo still bothers me. "It's not my job to develop rookies."

You and others must be happy as a lark that D'Antoni left town. Our record and defense improved so much after he left.

What players that D'Antoni did not develop or play, ever made another NBA roster after they left town.

Name them, I will then join the crowd beating the crap out of a dead horse.

I am more disappointed in Sarver for not drafting either Iggy or Deng the year he came to town as well as selling about ever other draft pick to pay for D'Antoni's 1st seven.

Hornacek is doing a fantastic job thus far but I doubt that he has a clue as to his first seven. It changes on a daily basis or so it seems. There appears to be very little difference in the 1st twelve. In the D'Antonin era our bench generally gave away every lead that the first 7 seven ever created. That is when he gave them the chance to play. At least that is how I remember it.

 

[BC867]

In the D'Antonin era our bench generally gave away every lead that the first 7 seven ever created. That is when he gave them the chance to play. At least that is how I remember it.

Isn't that because they didn't have a chance to develop under D'Antoni? That still falls on him.

 

[JS22]

You and others must be happy as a lark that D'Antoni left town. Our record and defense improved so much after he left.

What players that D'Antoni did not develop or play, ever made another NBA roster after they left town.

Name them, I will then join the crowd beating the crap out of a dead horse.

I am more disappointed in Sarver for not drafting either Iggy or Deng the year he came to town as well as selling about ever other draft pick to pay for D'Antoni's 1st seven.

Hornacek is doing a fantastic job thus far but I doubt that he has a clue as to his first seven. It changes on a daily basis or so it seems. There appears to be very little difference in the 1st twelve. In the D'Antonin era our bench generally gave away every lead that the first 7 seven ever created. That is when he gave them the chance to play. At least that is how I remember it.

Whoa there. Not trying to beat the crap out of a dead horse. Just replying to BC's comment about D'antoni being stubborn with his bench. And yes, he did actually say that it's not his job to develop rookies.

I'm one of the few that liked D'antoni for the most part. I just hated that he was so stubborn and ran his starters into the ground.

 

[Phrazbit]

Except he wasn't. He was a very inconsistent player, often tiimes he was average or slightly above and sometimes he was well below that and occasionally he showed glimpses of actually being a good player. Unfortunately most of the Suns fan-base tuned out of the actual games last season because the results weren't good and the play itself was boring. But I commented on more than one occasion that the guy showed signs of what he could be which made his down-nights even more frustrating. I can't understand how someone can look like a smart player out there one night and yet look clueless the next but Markieff has mastered it, whatever it is.

One more problem is that it really is difficult sometimes to distinguish between the two brothers (someone else already pointed this out but it's worth mentioning again) and each is influencing the appearance of the other Markieff is raising up his brother's image and Marcus is doing the reverse to Markieff). Anyway, here's hoping Kieff is turning a corner instead of just showing us another aspect of his inconsistent play.

Steve

He was really really awful last year. I know the stats paint a picture of a merely below average player but in terms of how he impacted the team he was even worse than Beasley.

http://www.82games.com/1213/1213PHO.HTM

Maybe him being totally lost on D was a symptom of playing along side some other true doofuses... maybe he still is lost on D and we just dont have the numbers to support it yet.

But offensively, I cannot deny that he has completely changed, and a lot of it might just be that letting him play on the interior has allowed him to flourish and gain confidence rather than having him stand on the perimeter and brick threes. But he is playing like a grown ass man on offense the last few games.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He was really really awful last year. I know the stats paint a picture of a merely below average player but in terms of how he impacted the team he was even worse than Beasley.

http://[B]www.82games.com/1213/1213PHO.HTM[/B]

Maybe him being totally lost on D was a symptom of playing along side some other true doofuses... maybe he still is lost on D and we just dont have the numbers to support it yet.

But offensively, I cannot deny that he has completely changed, and a lot of it might just be that letting him play on the interior has allowed him to flourish and gain confidence rather than having him stand on the perimeter and brick threes. But he is playing like a grown ass man on offense the last few games.

Serious question, is that your go-to site when it comes to non-traditional ratings or did you select it because you searched and searched until you found one that supported your position? I ask because the other sites I looked at show a different picture, by far. Basketball Reference for example, shows a WS/48 of .048 and Beasley's was a -.047. His PER was a full point better than Tucker's and almost two points better than Beasley.

Anyway, everything I come across on Markieff showed him to be a slightly below average player last season which is what he appeared to be to me. Not the destructive force you and many others made him out to be. I'll once again acknowledge the obvious, I don't know much at all when it comes to these kind of stats. But it seems to me that they are all over the map and that it's pretty easy to find one that supports almost any argument.

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

Serious question, is that your go-to site when it comes to non-traditional ratings or did you select it because you searched and searched until you found one that supported your position? I ask because the other sites I looked at show a different picture, by far. Basketball Reference for example, shows a WS/48 of .048 and Beasley's was a -.047. His PER was a full point better than Tucker's and almost two points better than Beasley.

Anyway, everything I come across on Markieff showed him to be a slightly below average player last season which is what he appeared to be to me. Not the destructive force you and many others made him out to be. I'll once again acknowledge the obvious, I don't know much at all when it comes to these kind of stats. But it seems to me that they are all over the map and that it's pretty easy to find one that supports almost any argument.

Steve

No, there are a lot of sites I like. That particular one is more about how teams play when X player is in the game. Rather than focus on Morris' stats you get a reflection on how the Suns looked with and without him and how his positional counterpart played when he was on the court. The obvious flaw those kinds of stats would be if Morris was screwed by being in really bad rotations, or if Morris were the backup to some exceptional player it would make him look bad in comparison. Seeing as Morris backed up Scola, I dont think that hurts him too much. But Morris was certainly in some horrible rotations last season, surrounded by players that almost no one could look good along side.

But was Morris also a big part of the problem? I dunno. Seeing as he played a lot of minutes with Beasley, Wes Johnson and Marcus Morris, all 3 are players I would say are abjectly terrible, Markieff is developing a strong alibi.

Like I said, I might just be wrong and judging him to harshly for circumstances out of his control... but I watch him play it still does not make sense to me. Maybe I'd be able to judge him better if there was not this other dude out there playing like garbage who looks just like him.