Nuggets @ Suns 12-29-18

[JCSunsfan]

It seems like Sarver avoids hiring big name experienced guys because he doesn’t want to hand over control. He prefers younger less experienced types that will allow him to meddle.

Also, is it possible that he changed his tune about moving because of a call from the league office?


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That might be it--kinda. I think he sees his management team as a collaborative group and he is in the group. This is certainly how McD described it and I think James Jones too. I do not think big name experienced guys like that arrangement.

 

[1Sun]

That might be it--kinda. I think he sees his management team as a collaborative group and he is in the group. This is certainly how McD described it and I think James Jones too. I do not think big name experienced guys like that arrangement.

Then we're doomed unless and until the NBA intervenes.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That might be it--kinda. I think he sees his management team as a collaborative group and he is in the group. This is certainly how McD described it and I think James Jones too. I do not think big name experienced guys like that arrangement.

Except there are a lot of owners that do just that and some of them interfere even more. Just read about all the decisions Glen Taylor has supposedly made or overruled. For example, he reportedly was the one that refused to send Wiggins for Butler so they ended up trading Lavine, Dunn and the pick that became Markkanen instead.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Except there are a lot of owners that do just that and some of them interfere even more. Just read about all the decisions Glen Taylor has supposedly made or overruled. For example, he reportedly was the one that refused to send Wiggins for Butler so they ended up trading Lavine, Dunn and the pick that became Markkanen instead.

Oh. I don't think it is as uncommon as we might think. I have seen some Sacramento inside video that is hair raising.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Oh. I don't think it is as uncommon as we might think. I have seen some Sacramento inside video that is hair raising.

Yeah. I occasionally read opponent forums and through the years I've read similar complaints/stories about owner interference on almost every one of them. Granted, our owner might have one of the more absurd stories such as him yapping in the background at the GM who is busy trying to make a deal on the phone but he's not the only annoying one out there.

 

[devilalum]

Yeah. I occasionally read opponent forums and through the years I've read similar complaints/stories about owner interference on almost every one of them. Granted, our owner might have one of the more absurd stories such as him yapping in the background at the GM who is busy trying to make a deal on the phone but he's not the only annoying one out there.

There is only one measure of competence. Wins and losses.

The once golden franchise has the worst record over the last 5 years.

Nobody would care how much Sarver interfered if the Suns were winning.


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[AzStevenCal]

There is only one measure of competence. Wins and losses.

The once golden franchise has the worst record over the last 5 years.

Nobody would care how much Sarver interfered if the Suns were winning.

You'd think, but history suggests otherwise. Just go back and read this forum when the Suns were winning under Dantoni and look at all the negative comments about coaching and ownership. It would be better, of course.

 

[devilalum]

You'd think, but history suggests otherwise. Just go back and read this forum when the Suns were winning under Dantoni and look at all the negative comments about coaching and ownership. It would be better, of course.

That was when he was on the sidelines with his big foam finger. The guy can’t get out of his own way when it comes to the NBA.


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[BC867]

I do not know if there is anyone here who condones the history of the Suns under Sarver--ANYONE. We all have been critical of Sarver to varying degrees. If you want to make a point, get the facts straight.

You're kidding, right? There have been tons of posts alibiing in detail why the Suns are failing. Such as ...the Suns have an average age of 22. That is not a defense. It is a damnation. And it sure does not make Suns fans feel better.


Having been part of over forty years of growth in the Valley, I am trying to rationalize why so many of our professional teams are now failing. It is about more than sports.

I guess I am going to have to come to grips with the fact that ours is still, after all, a small market, transient community. The Cardinals have just fired their Head Coach after one season. And the national media is jumping on the fact that he is African-American.

I hate (and I don't use that word loosely) to see our community being constantly ridiculed. Or worse, our local sports leaders earning that ridicule. It is sad!

 

[AzStevenCal]

That was when he was on the sidelines with his big foam finger. The guy can’t get out of his own way when it comes to the NBA.

And selling off draft picks, saying stupid things about the Spurs and so on.

 

[BC867]

You'd think, but history suggests otherwise. Just go back and read this forum when the Suns were winning under Dantoni and look at all the negative comments about coaching and ownership. It would be better, of course.

D'Antoni was criticized, rightfully so, for being short-sighted.

Such as burning out his players during the regular season with 7.5 man rotations.

Or publicly ridiculing the importance of defense. Or refusing to blend in young players.

The Suns even made him General Manager. But his approach was for the short term.

D'Antoni put on a helluva show, then burned out. And we were left with the ashes.

And, yes, posters recognized that as it was happening.

 

[JCSunsfan]

You're kidding, right? There have been tons of posts alibiing in detail why the Suns are failing. Such as ...the Suns have an average age of 22. That is not a defense. It is a damnation. And it sure does not make Suns fans feel better.


Having been part of over forty years of growth in the Valley, I am trying to rationalize why so many of our professional teams are now failing. It is about more than sports.

I guess I am going to have to come to grips with the fact that ours is still, after all, a small market, transient community. The Cardinals have just fired their Head Coach after one season. And the national media is jumping on the fact that he is African-American.

I hate (and I don't use that word loosely) to see our community being constantly ridiculed. Or worse, our local sports leaders earning that ridicule. It is sad!

The average age of 22 comments were in defense of the coach! Not the owner! Again. Facts. Might want to consider using them.

And the down cycle for our sports teams? Because we are a small market? Really? Please show the cause and effect? We are not a small market. We are the #12 media market in the country. We are not a small market.

For the Suns, its ownership and the endeavor to go through a major rebuild, which had never really been done in Suns history. Its painful and has taken longer than it should. Even then, the plan McD supposedly sold Sarver on targeted the 2019 free agency as the final step. We should be better by now though.

For the Cardinals, its a cycle, like every other NFL. Team. I know Michael Bidwill is a much better owner than his father was, and I know that because I have VERY close relations with employees in direct report to him. Coyotes. Don't know, don't follow hockey. Baseball looks like its the cycle too.

Not everything is a conspiracy or inept mgmt. Even NBA powerhouses go through cycles.

 

[1Sun]

For the Suns, its ownership and the endeavor to go through a major rebuild, which had never really been done in Suns history. Its painful and has taken longer than it should. Even then, the plan McD supposedly sold Sarver on targeted the 2019 free agency as the final step. We should be better by now though.

You said it, not me. That has to be inept player personnel management, inept coaching, or a combination of both. No other possible explanation.

 

[Errntknght]

Good post. To go even further with the "Won't spend their money on qualified GM's or Head Coaches." comment I think the issue has a lot more to do with qualified coaches and GMs not wanting to sign with the Suns. They have all heard what it is like to work for Sarver and chose other options that were available to them instead. I feel completely confident that Budenholzer for instance would have gotten a completely fair offer from Sarver, but for many reasons the Bucks job seemed much more enticing.

I just thought of new explaination for Sarver meddling in the Buddenholzer fiasco - the reason Sarver went behind McD back is because he offered Bud the GM job and the coaching job. That would be so like Sarver to do that - he's show people he was capable of playing in the big leagues and save money to boot - giving Bud the same salary for both jobs as for the coaching job! What could Bud do but quietly withdraw and say nothing?

 

[AzStevenCal]

I just thought of new explaination for Sarver meddling in the Buddenholzer fiasco - the reason Sarver went behind McD back is because he offered Bud the GM job and the coaching job. That would be so like Sarver to do that - he's show people he was capable of playing in the big leagues and save money to boot - giving Bud the same salary for both jobs as for the coaching job! What could Bud do but quietly withdraw and say nothing?

I hope you're wrong although I could certainly see him offering both jobs to the right person (with money being a key reason). IIRC Bud had both roles in Atlanta and failed pretty spectacularly at the GM side and had it taken away from him. It's a big part of why they went their separate ways from what I've read.

 

[devilalum]

There is only one measure of competence. Wins and losses.

The once golden franchise has the worst record over the last 5 years.

Nobody would care how much Sarver interfered if the Suns were winning.


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Nobody ever said Jerry Colangelo was interfering or holding the franchise back in any way and its pretty well documented that he was involved in everything.

Of course he was a GM AND even a head coach before becoming an owner.

 

[BC867]

Nobody ever said Jerry Colangelo was interfering or holding the franchise back in any way and its pretty well documented that he was involved in everything.

Of course he was a GM AND even a head coach before becoming an owner.

You're right in that Sarver cannot be compared to Jerry. Jerry worked his way up from the Marketing Dept. and Assistant GM with the Bulls to GM of the Suns, and eventually to Managing General Partner. (Naming himself as interim Head Coach twice without any previous on-court experience wasn't a solid or long part of his resume.)

Sarver went from being a Tucson banker to a San Diego banker and Managing General Partner of the Suns with no NBA experience whatsoever. He was so naive he thought he could declare himself the face of the franchise, which he hadn't earned and which investors shouldn't.

Mark Cuban has been a very rare exception. Without researching it, I think that no other investor in the history of the NBA has had the audacity to make himself so visible from Day 1. The players, Head Coach and General Manager should always be the most visible to the fans, while the investors stay in the background and count their money.

 

[devilalum]

You're right in that Sarver cannot be compared to Jerry. Jerry worked his way up from the Marketing Dept. and Assistant GM with the Bulls to GM of the Suns, and eventually to Managing General Partner. (Naming himself as interim Head Coach twice without any previous on-court experience wasn't a solid or long part of his resume.)

Sarver went from being a Tucson banker to a San Diego banker and Managing General Partner of the Suns with no NBA experience whatsoever. He was so naive he thought he could declare himself the face of the franchise, which he hadn't earned and which investors shouldn't.

Mark Cuban has been a very rare exception. Without researching it, I think that no other investor in the history of the NBA has had the audacity to make himself so visible from Day 1. The players, Head Coach and General Manager should always be the most visible to the fans, while the investors stay in the background and count their money.

Mark Cuban was cool and he spared no expense to keep his players happy.


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[AzStevenCal]

Mark Cuban was cool and he spared no expense to keep his players happy.

Yeah, Cuban spent the money on coaches (extra coaches) and amenities and it's made quite a difference for them. Wish I could say the same about Sarver.