Nuggets @ Suns 12-29-18

[Superbone]

I know what you mean. I've reluctantly refused to use the ignore option it but it's getting pretty bad.

It seems like the Ilk are multiplying.

Pretty soon there will be nothing but Ilk.

My hair is fine but I do have a receding hare line. They're trying to get away from the Ilk. Hoppity hop hop...

 

[SirStefan32]

I never put a single person on ignore until a couple of months ago. Either things just got worse in 2018 or my patience went out the window.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I know what you mean. I've reluctantly refused to use the ignore option it but it's getting pretty bad.

It seems like the Ilk are multiplying.

Pretty soon there will be nothing but Ilk.

I'm not even sure they're all wrong but I have no desire to hear it over and over and over.

 

[Mainstreet]

My hair is fine but I do have a receding hare line. They're trying to get away from the Ilk. Hoppity hop hop...

Those hare are fast and agile. Just let them loose. They can take care of themselves.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I never put a single person on ignore until a couple of months ago. Either things just got worse in 2018 or my patience went out the window.

I've used the ignore feature a few times in the past 30 years but until recently I've never done it for more than a day or two. I think I have 5 on it now and I don't anticipate any movement in the near future. But much of it is the current state of affairs, it's not all on the posters (except for the one obvious troll).

 

[JCSunsfan]

I've used the ignore feature a few times in the past 30 years but until recently I've never done it for more than a day or two. I think I have 5 on it now and I don't anticipate any movement in the near future. But much of it is the current state of affairs, it's not all on the posters (except for the one obvious troll).

I have done it temporarily as well. I only have one on my ignore list right now.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not even sure they're all wrong but I have no desire to hear it over and over and over.

Some points are valid but IMO when they repetitious, in poor taste and meant to agitate posters they are akin to trolling.

 

[BC867]

I know what you mean. I've reluctantly refused to use the ignore option it but it's getting pretty bad.

It seems like the Ilk are multiplying.

Pretty soon there will be nothing but Ilk.

Realistically, what do you expect from Suns fans watching our team out of playoff contention and sink to the bottom? And be called the laughingstock of the NBA just a year ago.

With an ownership group who won't spend part of their profits on qualified General Managers and Head Coaches (and firing them right after the starts of seasons over and over).

And threatening to move the team out of State (then recanting when there is a community reaction).

I would be concerned if the fan base didn't voice discontent. It is our only outlet.

I cannot understand so many apologists on ASFN nowadays. I truly can't. The ownership has an obligation to provide a product of which we can be proud.

Yes, the discontent is multiplying, whether you ignore it or not. Thank goodness for the fans who have not abandoned the Suns, but rather, made our voices known when the apologists keep posting the same thing over and over.

Go Suns . . . back to prominence and pride.

Go Sarver . . . back to San Diego and count your banking money.

 

[Mainstreet]

I never put a single person on ignore until a couple of months ago. Either things just got worse in 2018 or my patience went out the window.

It's worse. One starts and then others chime in knowingly or unknowingly.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Realistically, what do you expect from Suns fans watching our team out of playoff contention and sink to the bottom? And be called the laughingstock of the NBA just a year ago.

With an ownership group who won't spend part of their profits on qualified General Managers and Head Coaches (and firing them right after the starts of seasons over and over).

And threatening to move the team out of State (then recanting when there is a community reaction).

I would be concerned if the fan base didn't voice discontent. It is our only outlet.

I cannot understand so many apologists on ASFN nowadays. I truly can't. The ownership has an obligation to provide a product of which we can be proud.

Yes, the discontent is multiplying, whether you ignore it or not. Thank goodness for the fans who have not abandoned the Suns, but rather, made our voices known.

Go Suns . . . back to prominence and pride.

Go Sarver . . . back to San Diego and count your banking money.

It would just be nice if the discontent was factual. As in this post.

"Won't spend their money on qualified GM's or Head Coaches." I think Sarver is still paying McD. Watson was paid to not coach too. The evidence does not indicate these choices are about money.

"And firing them right after the season starts over and over." Technically, this happened once--with Watson. McD was fired before the season started. Firing a coach at that time, shows something was going really wrong, and it was. Firing a GM at that time shows that you gave him the draft and free agency to put a team together and he did not do it. So he got fired. It seems like odd timing, but it is not really that strange. If you want to criticize Sarver for sticking with McD too long, that's a legit gripe.

"Threatened to move and then recanted." Actually the news out is that Sarver NEVER threatened to move to Seattle or Las Vegas and it was the original reporter (and Council member) that recanted. He probably hinted about the Indian Reservation, but who of us really gives a rip about the Suns moving to South Scottsdale?

Sure. Be discontended. But get the facts straight.

 

[1Sun]

It would just be nice if the discontent was factual. As in this post.

"Won't spend their money on qualified GM's or Head Coaches." I think Sarver is still paying McD. Watson was paid to not coach too. The evidence does not indicate these choices are about money.

"And firing them right after the season starts over and over." Technically, this happened once--with Watson. McD was fired before the season started. Firing a coach at that time, shows something was going really wrong, and it was. Firing a GM at that time shows that you gave him the draft and free agency to put a team together and he did not do it. So he got fired. It seems like odd timing, but it is not really that strange. If you want to criticize Sarver for sticking with McD too long, that's a legit gripe.

"Threatened to move and then recanted." Actually the news out is that Sarver NEVER threatened to move to Seattle or Las Vegas and it was the original reporter (and Council member) that recanted. He probably hinted about the Indian Reservation, but who of us really gives a rip about the Suns moving to South Scottsdale?

Sure. Be discontended. But get the facts straight.

Regarding the first point, Sarver has always been penny wise and pound foolish. Had he simply doled out the money (and power) to someone more qualified to begin with, he wouldn't have to be paying people not to GM or coach (or play). One Mike Budenholzer is worth 100 Earl Watsons and Igor Kokoskovs.

As for the second point, that is Damage Control 101. Of COURSE Sarver made the threat, but with five public hearings looming and a mutual need to get a deal done, the Phoenix Council Member allowed Sarver to save face publicly. How can you not see that?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

It would just be nice if the discontent was factual. As in this post.

"Won't spend their money on qualified GM's or Head Coaches." I think Sarver is still paying McD. Watson was paid to not coach too. The evidence does not indicate these choices are about money.

"And firing them right after the season starts over and over." Technically, this happened once--with Watson. McD was fired before the season started. Firing a coach at that time, shows something was going really wrong, and it was. Firing a GM at that time shows that you gave him the draft and free agency to put a team together and he did not do it. So he got fired. It seems like odd timing, but it is not really that strange. If you want to criticize Sarver for sticking with McD too long, that's a legit gripe.

"Threatened to move and then recanted." Actually the news out is that Sarver NEVER threatened to move to Seattle or Las Vegas and it was the original reporter (and Council member) that recanted. He probably hinted about the Indian Reservation, but who of us really gives a rip about the Suns moving to South Scottsdale?

Sure. Be discontended. But get the facts straight.

Good post. To go even further with the "Won't spend their money on qualified GM's or Head Coaches." comment I think the issue has a lot more to do with qualified coaches and GMs not wanting to sign with the Suns. They have all heard what it is like to work for Sarver and chose other options that were available to them instead. I feel completely confident that Budenholzer for instance would have gotten a completely fair offer from Sarver, but for many reasons the Bucks job seemed much more enticing.

 

[1tinsoldier]

yes, we're all irked by the ilk. but who are the ilke and who are the ilkees? the trolls and trolled?

i'd say those who post and "like" exaggerations, broad generalizations, and insults are the ilk with the guilt

new day, new game tonight. i might post some observations.
if Igor repeats a behavior i don't agree with i might repeat my criticism of that behavior.
if you don't agree, i suggest you either tell me why or ignore me
but please stop whining like little biyatches about how unfair it is to the guy in charge
and how inconvenienced you are that you have to put posters on "ignore"

there's no crying in basketball
either man-up or i invite you to "ignore" yourself
--you and your frigging "ilk"

 

[Chaplin]

Results, man, results.

What results are those? Are you privy to the locker room?

 

[1Sun]

What results are those? Are you privy to the locker room?

We've already had a coach who netted us a Kumbayah locker room with no on-court success or progress. His name was Earl Watson. We need and deserve better.

 

[SirStefan32]

Good post. To go even further with the "Won't spend their money on qualified GM's or Head Coaches." comment I think the issue has a lot more to do with qualified coaches and GMs not wanting to sign with the Suns. They have all heard what it is like to work for Sarver and chose other options that were available to them instead. I feel completely confident that Budenholzer for instance would have gotten a completely fair offer from Sarver, but for many reasons the Bucks job seemed much more enticing.

I think coaches and GMs look at the roster. Not saying that the owner is not a factor, but if I were a coach or a GM, I am looking at the roster before anything else. Bucks had a better roster, they are in the easier conference. It's an easier gig.
Suns had Booker, number one pick likely turning out to be a teenager center, a forward that couldn't shoot, out of control sophomore, couple of semi-retired grandpas, and a bunch of D-leaguers on the roster. I am guessing it takes some serious balls to sign up to manage that team, coach that team, or to play on that team if you have other options.

Next summer, the Suns will have an improved Booker, a legitimate stretch-combo-forward, an outstanding young Center who is already a contributor, the best young 3 and D wing in the league (probably one of the best 3 and D wings of any age, honestly), and a few other contributors. It's a little bit different. Once they start winning, free agents will be lining up to sign with the Suns, as will coaches and GMs. This whole "Nobody will work for Sarver" thing is overstated.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I think coaches and GMs look at the roster. Not saying that the owner is not a factor, but if I were a coach or a GM, I am looking at the roster before anything else. Bucks had a better roster, they are in the easier conference. It's an easier gig.
Suns had Booker, number one pick likely turning out to be a teenager center, a forward that couldn't shoot, out of control sophomore, couple of semi-retired grandpas, and a bunch of D-leaguers on the roster. I am guessing it takes some serious balls to sign up to manage that team, coach that team, or to play on that team if you have other options.

Next summer, the Suns will have an improved Booker, a legitimate stretch-combo-forward, an outstanding young Center who is already a contributor, the best young 3 and D wing in the league (probably one of the best 3 and D wings of any age, honestly), and a few other contributors. It's a little bit different. Once they start winning, free agents will be lining up to sign with the Suns, as will coaches and GMs. This whole "Nobody will work for Sarver" thing is overstated.

I think the roster is important as well, but it can't be ignored that there have been reports of Sarver's reputation around the league. Not particularly about being cheap, but that of being a micromanager. It likely was a combination of that and the current roster that stopped us from getting one of the top coaches available in the off season.

 

[BC867]

Regarding the first point, Sarver has always been penny wise and pound foolish. Had he simply doled out the money (and power) to someone more qualified to begin with, he wouldn't have to be paying people not to GM or coach (or play). One Mike Budenholzer is worth 100 Earl Watsons and Igor Kokoskovs.

As for the second point, that is Damage Control 101. Of COURSE Sarver made the threat, but with five public hearings looming and a mutual need to get a deal done, the Phoenix Council Member allowed Sarver to save face publicly. How can you not see that?

Thank you for your concurrence. Making our point of view is just as valid as those who condone the history of the Suns under Sarver.

 

[Cheesebeef]

the fact is it's exactly those type of exaggerations and straw-man arguments that picks fights.
the only possible result of "why they even thought that a coach would be Popovich immediately"
is annoying posters who put time and thought into their observations

@Chaplin exactly.

And if you didn't mean that people think our new coach should be Pop, DON'T SAY IT. Why go to such hyperbolic lengths? Do you that doing so is going to make the conversation better... to imply something you "don't mean" that distorts the argument of the person your talking to?

As for you knowing for a FACT that I know what you meant, sorry dude. Not even close to being true. I'm not a minder... especially of a mind that I consistently disagree with.

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!

 

[devilalum]

It seems like Sarver avoids hiring big name experienced guys because he doesn’t want to hand over control. He prefers younger less experienced types that will allow him to meddle.

Also, is it possible that he changed his tune about moving because of a call from the league office?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Chaplin]

@Chaplin exactly.

And if you didn't mean that people think our new coach should be Pop, DON'T SAY IT. Why go to such hyperbolic lengths? Do you that doing so is going to make the conversation better... to imply something you "don't mean" that distorts the argument of the person your talking to?

As for you knowing for a FACT that I know what you meant, sorry dude. Not even close to being true. I'm not a minder... especially of a mind that I consistently disagree with.

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!

“Consistently?” Really? Can you recall the last time we actually disagreed about something?

We’ve done pretty well for the past couple years, so you throwing me under the bus is disappointing.

This is nothing more than you trying to fulfill your childish desire to be the man with the last word. More power to you. But I’m done with your idiotic games. Happy new year.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It seems like Sarver avoids hiring big name experienced guys because he doesn’t want to hand over control. He prefers younger less experienced types that will allow him to meddle.

Also, is it possible that he changed his tune about moving because of a call from the league office?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't think so, the recant from the councilman came too quickly IMO. I don't think he threatened to move to LV or Seattle in the conversation with the councilman. But everyone on the planet knows it's a leverage threat, just there for the using, so I don't see the big deal. And I'm quite sure Sarver and others have let the city know it's a real possibility eventually if they don't get what they want.

As for who Sarver hires, part of it is money IMO. Sarver has almost always been willing to pay for players but he tends to be very frugal in other areas, too frugal and I think that cuts down his hiring pool considerably. He's not the only owner that does it this way but I think they are in the minority.

 

[Cheesebeef]

“Consistently?” Really? Can you recall the last time we actually disagreed about something?

Chap, just because I stopped posting my disagreements with you, didn't mean I stopped disagreeing. But i stopped posting them because this is what consistently happens.

We’ve done pretty well for the past couple years, so you throwing me under the bus is disappointing.

This is nothing more than you trying to fulfill your childish desire to be the man with the last word. More power to you. But I’m done with your idiotic games. Happy new year.

No, this was me disagreeing with you and providing explanation why I disagree with you. I don't know how that makes me childish and idiotic, but ok.

 

[gimpy]

Boys will be boys

 

[JCSunsfan]

Thank you for your concurrence. Making our point of view is just as valid as those who condone the history of the Suns under Sarver.

I do not know if there is anyone here who condones the history of the Suns under Sarver--ANYONE. We all have been critical of Sarver to varying degrees. If you want to make a point, get the facts straight.