Nuggets @ Suns Wednesday game thread 12-25-2024

[Mainstreet]

As I mentioned during the game, it was surprising to see Nurkic come outside to defend while Durant dropped low with a collapsing defense around him.

It reminded me of the defense the Suns played when Jae Crowder was here.

On offense, Durant made a conscious effort to play inside in the fourth quarter on offense to give the Suns a scoring threat there.

As I viewed it, it showed the Suns need another more athletic presence at the 4/5 position.

Durant can't play this way for extended stretches. The Suns need help there.

 

[BirdGangThing]

looks like the team as a whole paid a little more attention to offensive rebounding

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[Hoop Head]

It indicates that the Suns can beat most opponents if they want to.

I don't think that's true. I think the Suns got lucky. The Nuggets losing Gordon hurt their defense and offense a lot. They were never able to adjust to him being out. Murray had a bad game also as he was questionable before the game. The Nuggets smacked the Suns upside the head in Denver and the Suns needed to play with fire for 48 minutes and catch some breaks to pull it out.

This was not an encouraging win, even with Booker out. It wasn't discouraging as the losing streak was but they still have too many warts to overlook and make a statement like you did above.

 

[Dback Jon]

I don't think that's true. I think the Suns got lucky. The Nuggets losing Gordon hurt their defense and offense a lot. They were never able to adjust to him being out. Murray had a bad game also as he was questionable before the game. The Nuggets smacked the Suns upside the head in Denver and the Suns needed to play with fire for 48 minutes and catch some breaks to pull it out.

This was not an encouraging win, even with Booker out. It wasn't discouraging as the losing streak was but they still have too many warts to overlook and make a statement like you did above.

So injuries are an excuse for the Nuggets, but not the Suns?

 

[Hoop Head]

So injuries are an excuse for the Nuggets, but not the Suns?

Where did I say that? I was responding to the claim that the Suns can beat most teams if they want to. I don't believe that's true. Did the Suns want to beat Denver in the playoffs 2 years ago? How about last year vs the Wolves? The Suns got lucky they faced a disjointed team that wasn't able to make adjustments on the fly to losing their best defender and whose second best offensive player was hobbled. A win is a win but I wouldn't read into the game more than it was. This wasn't a statement win.

 

[clyde2tw]

As I mentioned during the game, it was surprising to see Nurkic come outside to defend while Durant dropped low with a collapsing defense around him.

It reminded me of the defense the Suns played when Jae Crowder was here.

On offense, Durant made a conscious effort to play inside in the fourth quarter on offense to give the Suns a scoring threat there.

As I viewed it, it showed the Suns need another more athletic presence at the 4/5 position.

Durant can't play this way for extended stretches. The Suns need help there.

They lacked team defense concept in previous losses. Nurkic coming out with his big body can be effective at delaying the ball handler's driving and passing paths, but it requires concerted effort to better cover ensuing open space both in middle and perimeter. Also when Okogie hustles, others need to be alert of potential loose balls and switches. With JO, Morris and Beal sharing the court, we have that collective alert state, which reminds me of early last season, when JO, Goodwin and Saben together would create similar effect. Our main defensive issues occur with KD, Book and Allen who can't seem concentrating on D all the time. KD looked bad when Gordon scored on him from behind the board or Westbrook passed up the 3pt shot to drive by him for easy layup. This wouldn't happen if KD were mentally more into it.

 

[95pro]

They lacked team defense concept in previous losses. Nurkic coming out with his big body can be effective at delaying the ball handler's driving and passing paths, but it requires concerted effort to better cover ensuing open space both in middle and perimeter. Also when Okogie hustles, others need to be alert of potential loose balls and switches. With JO, Morris and Beal sharing the court, we have that collective alert state, which reminds me of early last season, when JO, Goodwin and Saben together would create similar effect. Our main defensive issues occur with KD, Book and Allen who can't seem concentrating on D all the time. KD looked bad when Gordon scored on him from behind the board or Westbrook passed up the 3pt shot to drive by him for easy layup. This wouldn't happen if KD were mentally more into it.

JO and Morris did provide some heart, energy and effort. Mix in some Dunn and some shots falling from this three, we are rolling.

I personally did not miss Allen, I honestly forgot about him last night.

 

[Mainstreet]

They lacked team defense concept in previous losses. Nurkic coming out with his big body can be effective at delaying the ball handler's driving and passing paths, but it requires concerted effort to better cover ensuing open space both in middle and perimeter. Also when Okogie hustles, others need to be alert of potential loose balls and switches. With JO, Morris and Beal sharing the court, we have that collective alert state, which reminds me of early last season, when JO, Goodwin and Saben together would create similar effect. Our main defensive issues occur with KD, Book and Allen who can't seem concentrating on D all the time. KD looked bad when Gordon scored on him from behind the board or Westbrook passed up the 3pt shot to drive by him for easy layup. This wouldn't happen if KD were mentally more into it.

Luckily, Durant got into the game both offensively and defensively in the 4th quarter as an inside presence. I wish he was able to do this all the time, but I don't think his body is up to a continual pounding.

Yes, Gordon scoring in the embarrassing manner that he did, helped Durant focus. I'm not high on Bol Bol, but it made me wonder if he could play the same role inside with a collapsing defense to assist. The curiosity for me was seeing Nurkic guard players at the 3-point line knowing they could drive around him, but then I saw Durant lying in wait.

 

[Covert Rain]

Luckily, Durant got into the game both offensively and defensively in the 4th quarter as an inside presence. I wish he was able to do this all the time, but I don't think his body is up to a continual pounding.

Yes, Gordon scoring in the embarrassing manner that he did, helped Durant focus. I'm not high on Bol Bol, but it made me wonder if he could play the same role inside with a collapsing defense to assist. The curiosity for me was seeing Nurkic guard players at the 3-point line knowing they could drive around him, but then I saw Durant lying in wait.

I think part of it is also inexperience. I have seen many games now where he has a good presence going and then dumb fouls pull him right out.

 

[clyde2tw]

Luckily, Durant got into the game both offensively and defensively in the 4th quarter as an inside presence. I wish he was able to do this all the time, but I don't think his body is up to a continual pounding.

Yes, Gordon scoring in the embarrassing manner that he did, helped Durant focus. I'm not high on Bol Bol, but it made me wonder if he could play the same role inside with a collapsing defense to assist. The curiosity for me was seeing Nurkic guard players at the 3-point line knowing they could drive around him, but then I saw Durant lying in wait.

The Nurk stepping out is definitely a thing of design and effective often as a surprise. But it needs teammates reading the play development closely to make it work. Can they keep everybody buy into constant focusing on D like in this game, like the good defenisive team do? If they do, we have a chance vs. any team.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Nurk stepping out is definitely a thing of design and effective often as a surprise. But it needs teammates reading the play development closely to make it work. Can they keep everybody buy into constant focusing on D like in this game, like the good defenisive team do? If they do, we have a chance vs. any team.

I think it's a more situational thing with Nurkic stepping out and Durant playing down low on defense to use at the end of games or short stretches. It likely took the Nuggets by surprise.

However, it gives the Suns another weapon and a preview of how they might play if they had a more athletic 4/5. It's not a fix, by any means.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think it's a more situational thing with Nurkic stepping out and Durant playing down low on defense to use at the end of games or short stretches. It likely took the Nuggets by surprise.

However, it gives the Suns another weapon and a preview of how they might play if they had a more athletic 4/5. It's not a fix, by any means.

I'm curious how much was situational vs a change in system. It's easier to step out on Jokic compared to AD, for example, because Jokic doesn't have the foot speed to blow past Nurk and take him off the dribble. We saw it almost exclusively in the 2nd half also, when AG was out. So Denver didn't even try to run a pick with Jokic and someone like MPJ to get a switch. I could have seen the Perimeter Nurk plan backfiring if he was on Gordon outside also because Gordon is explosive enough to take him off the dribble.

Next few games will be interesting. Derrick Lively and Gafford aren't perimeter players, especially Lively, but the Mavericks do go small with Klieber as their C occasionally. Klieber can shoot but he doesn't have speed or ball skills so how Nurkic plays him will give some insight. I won't read much into it though until we face a few more teams who have stretch 5's. Even with Klieber fitting that designation more, the Suns may keep Nurkic inside simply because that's how the Mavs generally use their C so for simplicity sake, keep it the same or make a sub.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm curious how much was situational vs a change in system. It's easier to step out on Jokic compared to AD, for example, because Jokic doesn't have the foot speed to blow past Nurk and take him off the dribble. We saw it almost exclusively in the 2nd half also, when AG was out. So Denver didn't even try to run a pick with Jokic and someone like MPJ to get a switch. I could have seen the Perimeter Nurk plan backfiring if he was on Gordon outside also because Gordon is explosive enough to take him off the dribble.

Next few games will be interesting. Derrick Lively and Gafford aren't perimeter players, especially Lively, but the Mavericks do go small with Klieber as their C occasionally. Klieber can shoot but he doesn't have speed or ball skills so how Nurkic plays him will give some insight. I won't read much into it though until we face a few more teams who have stretch 5's. Even with Klieber fitting that designation more, the Suns may keep Nurkic inside simply because that's how the Mavs generally use their C so for simplicity sake, keep it the same or make a sub.

It would be interesting if the Suns were working in some new defensive strategy. I like the wings collapsing on defense no matter who is playing in the middle. On some of those plays, when Nurkic is guarding outside, he simply may not be quick enough to recover.

 

[Covert Rain]

It would be interesting if the Suns were working in some new defensive strategy. I like the wings collapsing on defense no matter who is playing in the middle. On some of those plays, when Nurkic is guarding outside, he simply may not be quick enough to recover.

Watching Nurk try to run out on a 3 point shooter way too late is becoming a feature.