Official 2013 Draft Thread

[JerkFace]

THIS is what an athletic big man looks like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EBRzRctJeY

Not some 7'1 guy with long arms who's dunks have his feet hovering above the ground.

Sorry fellas, you can keep calling Len "athletic" and a gymnast, but there was more WOW athletic plays in 30 seconds of this highlight reel then 5 minutes of Len's.

this pick will haunt the Suns for a decade. I mean...was there even a highlight of Len playing defense against anyone? blocking another big man? making steals?

and I think we'll rue the day on McLemore as well.

Apparently our medical staff red flagged Noel. They have the reputation of being the best in the business so I don't blame McDonough for listening to them. I am pretty annoyed that we didn't draft McLemore but the word is that the Suns were really unimpressed when he came for his workout.

 

[FArting]

So the Suns drafted 4 players is that right

 

[sunsfan88]

who was drafted...16th...as a junior...who averaged 17 ppg and 10 rebounds. and isn't going to make anyone think of the other 4 guys you already mentioned.

The best comparison for Len is Jonas Valaciunas. They say that Len is even more skilled than Valaciunas but in terms of athleticism and size, they are similar.

And Raptors fans LOVEE Valaciunas. He put up per 36 mins averages of 14 pts, 9 rebounds and 2 blocks as a 21 year old rookie.

I would love it if Len can give us that kind of production as a rookie.

ugh...all I'm reading from the Suns is about Len's offensive skills. His touch around the basket, his body control.

WILL THEY EVER FREAKING LEARN THE KIND OF DIFFERENCE A DEFENSIVE DYNAMO MAKES ON A FREAKING TEAM?!

Noel might never be a great offensive player, but he's got defensive difference maker written ALL OVER him.

Len is good defensively too and isn't far behind Noel in terms of defense.

 

[sunsfan88]

So the Suns drafted 4 players is that right

No, 3. Len, Goodwin and some scrub in the 2nd rd forgot his name already lol.

 

[Absolute Zero]

If we pick Len over McLemore and Noel now I will quit until this day next year..

 

[Mainstreet]

That's as long as it took you to determine his promise. 39% is pretty gruesome. Very few players improve their shooting by 7+ points after entering the league, and that's where he'd need to get to have a chance of sticking around.

I didn't determine he had promise. I just thought the Suns should give him a good look since he is owed $854,389 for the upcoming season. This should ensure he gets a look.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/minnesota.htm

 

[Cheesebeef]

Len is good defensively too and isn't far behind Noel in terms of defense.

He's MILES behind Noel, who not only rebounds much better, but can can stat on the court, while DOUBLING the amount of blocks/steals per game.

Say whatever u want about Noel's offense compared to Len, but there is simply no comparison whatsoever between Len's 7.8 rebound, 2 blocks and ZERO steals vs. 9.5 rebounds, 4.4 blocks and 2 steals per game.

 

[slinslin]

Noel played 6 more minutes.

 

[SirStefan32]

He's MILES behind Noel, who not only rebounds much better, but can can stat on the court, while DOUBLING the amount of blocks/steals per game.

Say whatever u want about Noel's offense compared to Len, but there is simply no comparison whatsoever between Len's 7.8 rebound, 2 blocks and ZERO steals vs. 9.5 rebounds, 4.4 blocks and 2 steals per game.

Len played fewer minutes. Their rebounding rate is just about the same- Noel is .1 or .2 better. I get that you are upset with the Len pick (truth be told, I would have taken McLemore) but let's try to be somewhat objective.
It's done- we drafted Len. We get it that you like Noel better. Now let's give them a season and see how each one does before we crucify Len.

 

[Russ Smith]

He's MILES behind Noel, who not only rebounds much better, but can can stat on the court, while DOUBLING the amount of blocks/steals per game.

Say whatever u want about Noel's offense compared to Len, but there is simply no comparison whatsoever between Len's 7.8 rebound, 2 blocks and ZERO steals vs. 9.5 rebounds, 4.4 blocks and 2 steals per game.

I've only seen Len twice but one of those was against Noel and quite frankly he ate Nerlens up.

Admittedly it was Noel's first college game and he got much better as the year went on, but head to head in that game Len made Noel look bad.

Noel has now had 2 major knee procedures, Len is only 20 until we hear his foot problems are a problem I don't see why people are saying Noel is the healthier guy.

I think both could be very good NBA players, I think Noel has a higher ceiling but also a much lower floor because of the knee.

I don't know if Len was the right pick or not for the Suns but I don't think it's clear Noel was a better pick.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I've only seen Len twice but one of those was against Noel and quite frankly he ate Nerlens up.

Admittedly it was Noel's first college game and he got much better as the year went on, but head to head in that game Len made Noel look bad.

Noel has now had 2 major knee procedures, Len is only 20 until we hear his foot problems are a problem I don't see why people are saying Noel is the healthier guy.

I think both could be very good NBA players, I think Noel has a higher ceiling but also a much lower floor because of the knee.

I don't know if Len was the right pick or not for the Suns but I don't think it's clear Noel was a better pick.

I'd agree with this. I think Noel has a higher ceiling but it's going to take several years for him to get there and if his health is a real concern to our medical staff I'm fine with passing him by. I'm still not "fine" with drafting Len though. I'd much rather select a guy that's known for giving it his all rather than someone who's known for giving a lackluster effort at times. I suspect the only thing that would have made me truly happy is to do what the team that followed us did. Draft Noel and trade him away.

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

Noel played 6 more minutes.

Right...he was able to stay on the floor longer because he's a better defensive player.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Len played fewer minutes. Their rebounding rate is just about the same- Noel is .1 or .2 better. I get that you are upset with the Len pick (truth be told, I would have taken McLemore) but let's try to be somewhat objective.
It's done- we drafted Len. We get it that you like Noel better. Now let's give them a season and see how each one does before we crucify Len.

Okay... Should we just shut down the board for an entire year then? The idea that we can't talk about who we just drafted...24 hours after we made the pick makes no sense to me.

And I just don't get the "more minutes" argument. Noel as a freshman was able to stay on the floor longer, which meant he could make more of an impact...and somehow that makes Len's numbers as good on some way?

 

[Russ Smith]

Right...he was able to stay on the floor longer because he's a better defensive player.

part of the thing for me is after watching Anthony Davis last year it was hard not to compare Noel to him. Noel blocks shots, but in a totally different way from Davis. Davis will stay in position and stay down until the last possible second, he makes you commit and then blocks the shot. So he wasn't always out of position.

Noel is the opposite he goes for every fake, he goes after every shot, and he's quite likely to be out of position because of it.

Probably not fair, Davis was a pretty special kid, what staggered me about him was all those blocks and altered shots and very few fouls, that wasn't the case with Noel although he got better at it he was in foul trouble in lots of games last year and NBA bigs will kill him if he relies on steals and blocks instead of fighting for position.

 

[SirStefan32]

Okay... Should we just shut down the board for an entire year then? The idea that we can't talk about who we just drafted...24 hours after we made the pick makes no sense to me.

And I just don't get the "more minutes" argument. Noel as a freshman was able to stay on the floor longer, which meant he could make more of an impact...and somehow that makes Len's numbers as good on some way?

I am just saying that it's getting old. We get it- you hate the pick, you hate Sarver, you hate Babby, you hate McDonaugh, Suns suck, Len is the devil, Noel is the second coming of Christ. We get it.

I am fine with arguments, but I just can't stand these nonsensical arguments like "Noel is a better rebounder." When we point out that he is not really THAT much better, then it's because "Len can't stay on the court because he's a bad defender."

I suppose I am in the wrong here- it's a message board and if you want to repeat the same mantra twenty times every day, I guess that's fine.

 

[Mulli]

If we pick Len over McLemore and Noel now I will quit until this day next year..

We should draft McLemore and trade up for Noel.

Or draft Noel and then trade for McLemore or Shabazz..

Let's see how close Gambo is to Sarver....I will vomit if it is Len.

Bump

 

[SunsTzu]

Noel is the opposite he goes for every fake, he goes after every shot, and he's quite likely to be out of position because of it.

Pretty much how I felt watching Noel. I never saw the special defensive player everyone talks about, I just saw a young Theo Ratliff. Add to the fact he'll have a difficult time playing center in the NBA and lacks the skill to play PF leaves me with no regrets taking Len over him.

Taking Len over McLemore is a different story.

 

[sunsfan88]

He's MILES behind Noel, who not only rebounds much better, but can can stat on the court, while DOUBLING the amount of blocks/steals per game.

Say whatever u want about Noel's offense compared to Len, but there is simply no comparison whatsoever between Len's 7.8 rebound, 2 blocks and ZERO steals vs. 9.5 rebounds, 4.4 blocks and 2 steals per game.

He's not "MILES" better defensively, even the guy on ESPNs when Len got drafted said that he's not behind Noel by much on the defense end cause he's a shot blocker an his length cause guys to change their shot when they drive to the rim.

 

[elindholm]

Pretty much how I felt watching Noel. I never saw the special defensive player everyone talks about, I just saw a young Theo Ratliff.

You lost me. Ratliff led the league in blocks three times, was an All-Defensive Second Team pick twice, and was an All-Star once, while never being much of a scoring threat. If you saw a young Theo Ratliff, you did indeed see a special defensive player.

 

[JS22]

I still think Noel is vastly overrated.

Zero offensive game. No fluidity at all. No post moves. Nothing. And it's only going to get worse when he's being defended by legitimate NBA centers with 50 pounds on him. And the fact that the Suns - and their voodoo training staff - red flagged his knee scares the crap out of me.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'd agree with this. I think Noel has a higher ceiling but it's going to take several years for him to get there and if his health is a real concern to our medical staff I'm fine with passing him by. I'm still not "fine" with drafting Len though. I'd much rather select a guy that's known for giving it his all rather than someone who's known for giving a lackluster effort at times. I suspect the only thing that would have made me truly happy is to do what the team that followed us did. Draft Noel and trade him away.

Steve

OK. That's fair. That's why I would have taken Oladipo above any of them, including Bennett. But since he wasn't available, it was a toss up between them. McLemore disappeared at times during the year, he had bad work outs, and he is a guard, so he had the ball in his hands.

Len just didn't get the ball. Again. McLemore may end up being the better player--its a gamble after all, but I don't think Len is a stretch. I refuse to climb out on the ledge over this. We drafted a 7-1 center who is 20 years old and still growing. He has good agility and he isn't a twig.

I can live with that. On to free agency.

 

[SunsTzu]

You lost me. Ratliff led the league in blocks three times, was an All-Defensive Second Team pick twice, and was an All-Star once, while never being much of a scoring threat. If you saw a young Theo Ratliff, you did indeed see a special defensive player.

I disagree. I know very well Ratliff's ability to block shots and I expect Noel to be among the league leaders in block rate. The whole point of the comparison is that both guys sellout on defense in pursuit of a blocked shot(Noel will do the same going for steals). I'd rather have a big that plays good positional defense and doesn't get a lot of blocks(like Tyson Chandler) vs one that gambles constantly to rack up high block totals.

I don't dispute that a high volume of blocks and/or steals will get you defensive recognition. Chris Paul has made a slew of All-Defensive teams based on his steals, but I've never considered him one of the top 4 defensive guards in the league.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I disagree. I know very well Ratliff's ability to block shots and I expect Noel to be among the league leaders in block rate. The whole point of the comparison is that both guys sellout on defense in pursuit of a blocked shot(Noel will do the same going for steals). I'd rather have a big that plays good positional defense and doesn't get a lot of blocks(like Tyson Chandler) vs one that gambles constantly to rack up high block totals.

well, if we had drafted a guy comparable to Tyson Chandler, I don't think you'd see people as upset as they are. But Len doesn't compare to those skills in the least.

And you act like Noel will always be the player he is right now. He was only a freshman and got better and better and better at the entire game throughout the season. and that's with Calipari coaching, who's never been accused of being a great coach, but more an INCREDIBLE recruiter who has ridden incredible talent for years.

 

[SunsTzu]

well, if we had drafted a guy comparable to Tyson Chandler, I don't think you'd see people as upset as they are. But Len doesn't compare to those skills in the least.

And you act like Noel will always be the player he is right now. He was only a freshman and got better and better and better at the entire game throughout the season. and that's with Calipari coaching, who's never been accused of being a great coach, but more an INCREDIBLE recruiter who has ridden incredible talent for years.

And you act like Len won't get better.

A player doesn't need to compare to Chandler in order to be a better prospect the Noel. I merely used Chandler as a contrast to Ratliff as the type of defender I'd prefer. The guy I'd probably compare Len to right now is Jonas Valanciunas.

I saw Noel making the same overly aggressive plays in January that he was making in November. As far as coaching goes, I'd say a top ranked American would have a leg up on development compared to a Ukrainian who didn't pick up the game until his teens, yet Len seems to have a more refined skill set.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And you act like Len won't get better.

no I don't. sure, he'll probably get better, but I just don't think his ceiling is all that high. especially considering the guy has motor problems, which is one thing you can't say about Noel.

A player doesn't need to compare to Chandler in order to be a better prospect the Noel. I merely used Chandler as a contrast to Ratliff as the type of defender I'd prefer.

that's fine, but it's not the type of defender we got, thus I don't see how it's relevant in the Noel v. Len discussion.

The guy I'd probably compare Len to right now is Jonas Valanciunas.

I saw Noel making the same overly aggressive plays in January that he was making in November.

give me the guy who's overly aggressive as a freshman trying to make an impact over the low motor/less athletic guy any day of the week.

As far as coaching goes, I'd say a top ranked American would have a leg up on development compared to a Ukrainian who didn't pick up the game until his teens, yet Len seems to have a more refined skill set.

i'll give you the coaching, but Len's skill set is only more refined on offense and yet, he still only averaged 1 ppg more then Noel.