OK, I've seen enough of Kurt today

[Chopper0080]

Doug-

That is the nature of the position that is QB. Did Warner put the ball where he needed to...yes. Was Urban, who was surrounded by three defenders the best option to complete a pass to? I don't know.

When the QB throws a bad ball into coverage and the receiver makes a great catch, the QB is responsible. Same thing goes here. Warner threw a ball over the outside shoulder of our #4 receiver who happened to be surrounded by three defenders. Yes, he put it where he had to, and it probably should have been caught. But when you are asking your #4 wide receiver to make great catches in traffic, you are playing with fire.

 

[ajcardfan]

Doug-

That is the nature of the position that is QB. Did Warner put the ball where he needed to...yes. Was Urban, who was surrounded by three defenders the best option to complete a pass to? I don't know.

When the QB throws a bad ball into coverage and the receiver makes a great catch, the QB is responsible. Same thing goes here. Warner threw a ball over the outside shoulder of our #4 receiver who happened to be surrounded by three defenders. Yes, he put it where he had to, and it probably should have been caught. But when you are asking your #4 wide receiver to make great catches in traffic, you are playing with fire.

Good point. But, when down 2 or 3 scores in the 2nd half it's pretty much a given that you have to take more risks.


I don't completely understand the fixation on Warner and Whisenhunt in yesterday's loss. It was 21-7 before we had a single turnover. The poor play of the defense early had a big part in the poor play of the offense that followed.

The previous three weeks we won as a team, this week we lost as a team.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

KW last year and this year is night and day. Last year he came into camp in the best shape of his life and motivated to have a great camp to win the starting position. He did that and it carried through the entire season. This year he has an 18 mill salary, no competition for the starter's spot, and coming off hip surgery. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why last year he was so much better. I was kind of hoping Leinart would have gotten in there and played great to ,if nothing else, light a fire under Kurt's butt.

 

[gamebird98]

I'm not saying you make Matty the starter, but Kurt is faaaaar off his game and only hurting the team now. End this suffering.

bump

 

[Cardiac]

bump

Cardsmdfan didn't say sit KW forever, just for that game. It was a Bad Kurt day.

 

[Pariah]

bump

Bump for what? He was right; Kurt should have been benched in that game.

 

[DeAnna]

Bump for what? He was right; Kurt should have been benched in that game.

I don't believe in benching your starting QB because he's having a bad day.

But more importantly, WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT LAST WEEK'S GAME???

 

[Pariah]

I don't believe in benching your starting QB because he's having a bad day.

Why not? Why ride out a bad day when the next guy might have a good day?

 

[Doug]

Warner bounced back as he has after EVERY 3interception game or higher with games being 107+,105+,95+ passing percentage and today he topped them all with a 135+ passing percentage.

He could of had more if Whiz believed in going for the jugular like Belicheat does and we would have added to the Jags score and other games as well.Yet we chose to run the ball to run time out and we needed too in my opinon but there were points against the bears in the passing game because they chose to blitz Warner and you'll always lose when you do that and he has one on one recievers.

Last week he was throwing against 7 with the panthers who were not afraid of our running game.The loss of the Bears best D-Lineman did'nt hurt at all either.So lets not get to cocky thinking we can run like that on everyone.

Kurt just needs to have amnesia when he has bad games like last week and continue to be the Hall Of Fame quarterback he is.This is HIS team till he decides differently.Has nothing to do with Leinart at all anymore.

Saw more posters who had'nt posted in over half a year last week joining in on the posting just to jump on the Kurt bashing.Well I hope they got a good taste today of what he is still capable of doing.The best he's looked all year in my personal opinion.He loves a challenge.

 

[Chopper0080]

I will say that when Kurt is on, he is on and today proves that. Same goes when he is off. I hope that we can settle somewhere is the middle to develop the consistency that this team needs. Good game today Kurt, along with the rest of the Cardinals.

 

[OmeneX]

KW last year and this year is night and day. Last year he came into camp in the best shape of his life and motivated to have a great camp to win the starting position. He did that and it carried through the entire season. This year he has an 18 mill salary, no competition for the starter's spot, and coming off hip surgery. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why last year he was so much better. I was kind of hoping Leinart would have gotten in there and played great to ,if nothing else, light a fire under Kurt's butt.

This. ^

Kurt is a hell of a fighter. But from the outside looking in, he needs to feel challenged at all times. Even when he's on top and even when he know's he's on top. It's something I know about myself, and finally recognized after many years. Kurt has the ability of greatness, but only when pushed or the chips are down. It's called being a hero or being appreciated. He's never struck me as the kinda guy who can stomp someone or an opponent when they are down, or not be appreciated for his wins and victories. So, he plays the best when the s*** is on the line. Because, when else do you get the most return on effort? It's not a logical or a thought out ideal. It's just how your built.

When push comes to shove, you push back. You may lose some, but overall? You win the day, and hear the cheers of the women and family. It's a good feeling.

 

[moklerman]

I'm glad Kurt had a good game but this was much more about Whis calling a much better game and the continued, glacially slow as it may be, shift to Beanie as the primary RB. Harris getting himself ejected was a big break for the Cardinals and I certainly would chalk up some of the success of the running game to that doufus losing his cool.

However, success breeds confidence and while I don't expect the Cards to continually run the ball with the same kind of success, this kind of game can elevate Whis' confidence in continuing to call running plays(rather than audible plays), Warner not checking out of running plays and the line finally feeling good about themselves.

This is the game plan I've been waiting to see and I hope they don't abandon it next week vs. Seattle.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm glad Kurt had a good game but this was much more about Whis calling a much better game and the continued, glacially slow as it may be, shift to Beanie as the primary RB. Harris getting himself ejected was a big break for the Cardinals and I certainly would chalk up some of the success of the running game to that doufus losing his cool.

However, success breeds confidence and while I don't expect the Cards to continually run the ball with the same kind of success, this kind of game can elevate Whis' confidence in continuing to call running plays(rather than audible plays), Warner not checking out of running plays and the line finally feeling good about themselves.

This is the game plan I've been waiting to see and I hope they don't abandon it next week vs. Seattle.

I hate to ask but have you ever noticed that when Kurt plays well you praise the playcalls and when he doesn't you blame the playcalls?

Leinart is the perfect example of that. Whiz said the pick Matt threw was a called play they'd worked on all week to get a big play, the play was open for a big play. The problem was Matt hadn't worked on it all week in practice, Kurt did, and Matt threw it outside and Fitz cut inside, pick, got Bears back in the game.

That was NOT a bad playcall, it was a great playcall, and a bad throw. Just like last week the pass to Beanie was a great playcall, but a bad cut block and a bad throw and it's a picksix.

We ran the ball more and that was great but then we weren't 2 TD's behind early like we were against Carolina. The defense played better early so we were able to keep running.

The key yesterday was we didn't turn the ball over.

Playcalling is always something people complain about when an offense isn't playing well but often that's not the case. Again we are 2nd in the entire NFL in points scored in the first possession, that's shows we can gameplan and call plays.

 

[Rats]

I hate to ask but have you ever noticed that when Kurt plays well you praise the playcalls and when he doesn't you blame the playcalls?

Leinart is the perfect example of that. Whiz said the pick Matt threw was a called play they'd worked on all week to get a big play, the play was open for a big play. The problem was Matt hadn't worked on it all week in practice, Kurt did, and Matt threw it outside and Fitz cut inside, pick, got Bears back in the game.

That was NOT a bad playcall, it was a great playcall, and a bad throw. Just like last week the pass to Beanie was a great playcall, but a bad cut block and a bad throw and it's a picksix.

We ran the ball more and that was great but then we weren't 2 TD's behind early like we were against Carolina. The defense played better early so we were able to keep running.

The key yesterday was we didn't turn the ball over.

Playcalling is always something people complain about when an offense isn't playing well but often that's not the case. Again we are 2nd in the entire NFL in points scored in the first possession, that's shows we can gameplan and call plays.

You and I are always on the oppisite side of this issue. Just because you say it doesnt mean there is agreement that the play to beanie was a good call. We were down and had nothing but dink and dunk called all game including that t toss. This week we had none of that and used our TE effectivly. There was a major differance this week that led to balance for our O. We did not throw short and try for RAC to get first downs . We kept the rb in to pick up the blitz and used motion tom more effectivly identify coverage. We were able to get Kurt more time to go downfield. We ran the ball better because of this. Just a better gameplan.

 

[Russ Smith]

You and I are always on the oppisite side of this issue. Just because you say it doesnt mean there is agreement that the play to beanie was a good call. We were down and had nothing but dink and dunk called all game including that t toss. This week we had none of that and used our TE effectivly. There was a major differance this week that led to balance for our O. We did not throw short and try for RAC to get first downs . We kept the rb in to pick up the blitz and used motion tom more effectivly identify coverage. We were able to get Kurt more time to go downfield. We ran the ball better because of this. Just a better gameplan.

Because the Bears played a different defense. They didn't defend us the same way. We didn't have to throw dumps to Hightower all day because we had guys open downfield and got them the ball..

You can't playcall in a vacuum, who you're playing has a lot to do with it. Carolina's defense is currently better than the Bears, we could basically do anything we wanted yesterday.

That wasn't because of the playcalling, it was because we were better than them. We had them off balance yes, but largely because they were reacting to us not the other way around, because we were the better team and had the lead.

 

[conraddobler]

I hate to ask but have you ever noticed that when Kurt plays well you praise the playcalls and when he doesn't you blame the playcalls?

Leinart is the perfect example of that. Whiz said the pick Matt threw was a called play they'd worked on all week to get a big play, the play was open for a big play. The problem was Matt hadn't worked on it all week in practice, Kurt did, and Matt threw it outside and Fitz cut inside, pick, got Bears back in the game.

That was NOT a bad playcall, it was a great playcall, and a bad throw. Just like last week the pass to Beanie was a great playcall, but a bad cut block and a bad throw and it's a picksix.

We ran the ball more and that was great but then we weren't 2 TD's behind early like we were against Carolina. The defense played better early so we were able to keep running.

The key yesterday was we didn't turn the ball over.

Playcalling is always something people complain about when an offense isn't playing well but often that's not the case. Again we are 2nd in the entire NFL in points scored in the first possession, that's shows we can gameplan and call plays.

Whiz was rather nice to Matt this time.

However I continue to believe he tortures Matt with surprise thrusts into games to prove to him he needs to be ready at all times.

I think it's actually very smart, he keeps thrusting Matt into situations that knock his confidence, which I think is what Whiz's problem with Matt is in the first place, ie false confidence.

Matt seems to think he knows what's going on, yet Whiz is uncanny at putting him in spots that prove otherwise.

I really think he's teaching him the hard way, hope it sinks in.

In terms of playcalling, it's Whiz's style and it's different but it's not bad it's just his and it takes time for the team to get on board too.

Warner's had a couple of ridiculously good and bad games under it but I think it's more about how the team does in any given day than the playcalling, JMO.

 

[8ndkorner]

I'm glad Kurt had a good game but this was much more about Whis calling a much better game and the continued, glacially slow as it may be, shift to Beanie as the primary RB. Harris getting himself ejected was a big break for the Cardinals and I certainly would chalk up some of the success of the running game to that doufus losing his cool.

However, success breeds confidence and while I don't expect the Cards to continually run the ball with the same kind of success, this kind of game can elevate Whis' confidence in continuing to call running plays(rather than audible plays), Warner not checking out of running plays and the line finally feeling good about themselves.

This is the game plan I've been waiting to see and I hope they don't abandon it next week vs. Seattle.

Whis called the plays for ML today also. Hopefully this will put to rest all of the QOF posts. ML would have given up a substantial lead in a matter of minutes if our coach didn't stop the bleeding so soon. And of course KW came back in and scored another td.

 

[moklerman]

I hate to ask but have you ever noticed that when Kurt plays well you praise the playcalls and when he doesn't you blame the playcalls? No, I haven't noticed that.

Leinart is the perfect example of that. Whiz said the pick Matt threw was a called play they'd worked on all week to get a big play, the play was open for a big play. The problem was Matt hadn't worked on it all week in practice, Kurt did, and Matt threw it outside and Fitz cut inside, pick, got Bears back in the game. I'm not really criticizing Matt or that part of the game. This was Whis' best game as an OC as a Cardinal IMO. He stuck with the running game throughout the whole game, called plays in a far less predictable manner and put the right personnel on the field for the game. I hope he continues along this path much more than the first 7 games this year and his previous stint in '07.

That was NOT a bad playcall, it was a great playcall, and a bad throw. Just like last week the pass to Beanie was a great playcall, but a bad cut block and a bad throw and it's a picksix.

We ran the ball more and that was great but then we weren't 2 TD's behind early like we were against Carolina. The defense played better early so we were able to keep running. I can't agree with you there. Being 2 TD's down in the first half doesn't mean it's time to get out of the game plan. Down 2 TD's with 2 minutes to do means it's time to throw caution to the wind but the Cardinals should have kept pounding the ball in the Carolina game.

The key yesterday was we didn't turn the ball over.

Playcalling is always something people complain about when an offense isn't playing well but often that's not the case. Again we are 2nd in the entire NFL in points scored in the first possession, that's shows we can gameplan and call plays. But game planning and play calling are two different things. If anything, Whis' and the offense's success on first drives(scripted plays) punctuates even more his struggles as a play caller. It seems that once they go off script they are much less effective.

Again, I think Whis did his best job as an OC. The play calling was far less predictable, the personnel packages were more conventional more often, the decision to sit Boldin, etc. I don't think that's how he's called many of the games before Chicago. I hope he keeps it up vs. Seattle and beyond. Not the same exact thing but adjusting to the situation at hand and not playing into the teeth of the defense.

 

[jaguarpaw81]

Saw more posters who had'nt posted in over half a year last week joining in on the posting just to jump on the Kurt bashing.

Not everyone has the time or desire to start 11 threads a day.

 

[moklerman]

Not everyone has the time or desire to start 11 threads a day.

What does that have to do with his point? 11 posts a day has nothing to do with waiting in the wings until Warner has a bad day.

 

[jaguarpaw81]

What does that have to do with his point? 11 posts a day has nothing to do with waiting in the wings until Warner has a bad day.

Well for starters, cardsfanmd has been a steadfast Warner guy since we signed him. I highly doubt he was waiting for a chance to bash the guy.

 

[Doug]

Not everyone has the time or desire to start 11 threads a day.

Hey I was the one that gave you a million dollars just for the heck of it.You did'nt ask for it.You also NEVER thanked me for it when I only had a few million.I only saw you complain you did'nt have much money and I gave to you.I just gave when I did'nt have much.I like you jaguar.Glad to have another Matty fan aboard.Don't spend that at any of his parties now.lol

No people don't have time to post at ALL when Kurt Warner plays well but they find time to make plenty of POSTS,not threads when Warner plays bad.I'm retired and have plenty of time to post POSITIVE STUFF every day I can.Nothing negative about Matt.His time won't start till Kurt is gone if they want to pay him his bonus'.We'll have to see.

I'm so glad you quoted me panther .That needed to be reminded here that there is no qbotf on this team.

This is Warners team.Whiz has proven that.He won't lose it by injury either.

Which by the way,every summer the Matt lovers only post how old man kurt won't make it to game five and Matt will step in and lead the team to glory.

Yet the old man KEEPS ON TICKING AWAY.To the tune of **5** Touchdowns and could have been many more against this defense if Whiz would have let Warner go for them.Belicheat lets Brady rack them up.

Even after Warner wreck of a week last week he is only one touchdown behind 2 quarterbacks in the league on TD passes.So everyone can calm down about KURT WARNER for a few weeks now.Its not CRITICAL.

 

[Doug]

What does that have to do with his point? 11 posts a day has nothing to do with waiting in the wings until Warner has a bad day.

He has no reply.He has NO POINT.Me thinks he's one of the many Matt dreamers that dominate the main CARDINALS board.Its pure insanity over there.

 

[Russ Smith]

Again, I think Whis did his best job as an OC. The play calling was far less predictable, the personnel packages were more conventional more often, the decision to sit Boldin, etc. I don't think that's how he's called many of the games before Chicago. I hope he keeps it up vs. Seattle and beyond. Not the same exact thing but adjusting to the situation at hand and not playing into the teeth of the defense.

To be fair Whiz didn't abandon the run down 14 to Carolina. He abandoned it down 21, the problem was it only took us one play to go from down 14 to down 21, the picksix on the pass to Wells.

So you can't really say he abandoned the run too early at 14 points, we only ran one play at that difference.

 

[moklerman]

To be fair Whiz didn't abandon the run down 14 to Carolina. He abandoned it down 21, the problem was it only took us one play to go from down 14 to down 21, the picksix on the pass to Wells.

So you can't really say he abandoned the run too early at 14 points, we only ran one play at that difference.

Well, down 14 they came out throwing and it led to being down 21. Regardless, I'm a firm believer that a team shouldn't alter their approach so early. Generally speaking, it just compounds the issue.

To me, it's the equivalent of trying to hit a 5 run home run.

Unfortunately, the bigger problem under Whis as OC has been predictability. That improved against Chicago.