OLB Victor Butler signed, OLB Marcus Benard and P Butler released

Darkside

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I think burst is actually less important if you're talking a long term player, because his technique can get you sacks over the length of his career. He can have average speed with great technique and survive. With technique you can also set the edge on plays your whole career.

With an athletic player with burst you're going to lose that within a few years. The problem is that now we have nobody and so we need that impact player with immediate speed. We're just not going to find that in FA. All the impact edge rushers are gone and will stay gone.

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Jetstream Green

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I think burst is actually less important if you're talking a long term player, because his technique can get you sacks over the length of his career. He can have average speed with great technique and survive. With technique you can also set the edge on plays your whole career.

With an athletic player with burst you're going to lose that within a few years. The problem is that now we have nobody and so we need that impact player with immediate speed. We're just not going to find that in FA. All the impact edge rushers are gone and will stay gone.

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I think getting sacks is also an instinctive thing some guys possess and others do not. Of course athletic ability helps, but good instincts and technique goes a long way and I think Abraham proved that last season :)
 

RugbyMuffin

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11 sacks in 60+ games. Not signed to bring the pressure. At least we get our punter back!

I disagree.

He is signed to bring the pressure, this board was GA-GA over Victor Butler when he was a free agent, and even though I was not one of those posters who wanted to bring Butler in, he was touted as a pass rusher.

Thus I think he is being brought here to rush the passer.......but I don't think that is going to happen when he gets onto the field.

Happier to bring the guy in now, and not 2 years ago in free agency for an outrageous price. He was a total free agent bust (and an expensive one) for the Saints.
 

Garthshort

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If he were any good he wouldn't be unemployed? I read somewhere that Cameron Wake was unemployed and had to play in Canada. Is this true?
 

juza76

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If he were any good he wouldn't be unemployed? I read somewhere that Cameron Wake was unemployed and had to play in Canada. Is this true?

yes he started to play in the nfl at 27 years old.
he was originally drafted as UFA by giants then he couldnt make the team so he had to sit 1 year without football and in 2007 he started to play in CFL for 2 seasons.

in 2006 was unemployed.
 

Buckybird

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Happier to bring the guy in now, and not 2 years ago in free agency for an outrageous price. He was a total free agent bust (and an expensive one) for the Saints.

Actually he was hurt with a torn ACL. If he's healthy, I think he's gonna be a good addiction...we'll see.
 

TRW

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On the street, 3rd game in? Doubt he has much.

But, at least Keim isn't standing pat and is trying something. Kudos for that.

Who knows? Maybe Bowles will turn on the switch and he will be amazing. It could happen...maybe...right?
 

RugbyMuffin

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If he were any good he wouldn't be unemployed? I read somewhere that Cameron Wake was unemployed and had to play in Canada. Is this true?

Yep.

The Cardinals tried to sign Cameron Wake too, but were out big by the Dolphins.

We ended up signing the second best pass rusher in the CFL at that time, Stevie Baggs IIRC, but he was no C. Wake, and didn't make the final 53.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4887563

I so, get a golden star for remembering his name, which was in fact, Stevie Baggs.
 

cardpa

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If he were any good he wouldn't be unemployed? I read somewhere that Cameron Wake was unemployed and had to play in Canada. Is this true?

Played two years in the CFL. Was used as both a LB and a DE at Penn State. Career stats at PSU - 191 total tackles, 8.5 quarterback sacks, and 24 tackles for a loss. Not exactly mind blowing stats. Had 39 sacks in two years in the CFL. Guess he just needed an opportunity to learn and play. Maybe Butler could be our Wake.
 

MadCardDisease

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Happier to bring the guy in now, and not 2 years ago in free agency for an outrageous price. He was a total free agent bust (and an expensive one) for the Saints.

I thought he signed for $3M over 2 years. Not exactly an outrageous price for a pass rusher with potential.

He tore his ACL in training camp last year and never played a down for the Saints.

I wanted the Cardinals to bring in Butler 2 years ago. So I'm very happy with this signing.
 

RugbyMuffin

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I thought he signed for $3M over 2 years. Not exactly an outrageous price for a pass rusher with potential.

He tore his ACL in training camp last year and never played a down for the Saints.

I wanted the Cardinals to bring in Butler 2 years ago. So I'm very happy with this signing.

You are correct, it was only 3 mil over 2 years.....don't know what I was thinking. :oops:
 

Shane

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Kurt Warner and Bertrand Berry were both out of the NFL for multiple years and went on to make pro bowls after.

If he were any good he wouldn't be unemployed? I read somewhere that Cameron Wake was unemployed and had to play in Canada. Is this true?

:biglaugh:

Good luck with that....
 

MadCardDisease

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If he were any good he wouldn't be unemployed?

He was coming off a torn ACL that occured a year ago in training camp. Then he tweaked an ankle during the offseason this year and didn't get much playing time. With very little reps to evalute him, the Saints made a decision to cut him when they trimmed down to 75 and saved $1.5M on the cap.
 
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Azlen

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Most of the players that you sign in this type of situation are going to be busts who won't add much if anything to the roster. But there is a chance, albeit small, that you can find someone who can make plays. I prefer a front office that is always looking and taking a risk by signing these players than one that prefers to sit on their hands and not do a thing.
Chances are Butler will be out of work again before the end of the season, but I'm glad this team is trying to find someone who can rush the passer. Then once the off season begins, they can put an emphasis on finding that player in free agency and/or the draft.
 

Totally_Red

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If his skills were as good as you seem to be raving he wouldn't been out of a job ;)

You could have made the same argument about the Cardinals signing of John Abraham just before training camp last year. :D

At this point, the Cardinals have nothing for outside pass rushers. At worst he doesn't pan out. At best, he gets some pressures and a few sacks.
 

joeshmo

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The reasons the Saints signed him and if I remember correctly many here wanted him as well in free agency a few years back was because of this:

"11 career sacks and four forced fumbles across four seasons, though he's only played 803 career snaps, per Pro Football Focus. The typical starting 3-4 rush linebacker plays 900-1,000 snaps."

He was released after not being able to play in any Preseason games after tearing his ACL the year before.

If there were pre-ACL injury I would have high hopes, but that isn't the case so him Bernard or who ever else is out there is just bottom of the roster filler until they prove otherwise.
 

Gandhi

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The Cardinals tried to sign Cameron Wake too, but were out big by the Dolphins.

Could be, but in this blog Darren Urban states that the extraordinary braintrust of, among others, Rod Graves, Clancy Pendergast and Billy Davis decided to pass on Cameron Wake after taking him through a workout.

“After lighting up the CFL, Wake worked out for the Cardinals in late 2008 as a potential outside linebacker. The Cards ended up passing, and Wake
didn’t latch on anywhere until Miami signed him in the offseason”.

http://blog.azcardinals.com/2012/09/28/friday-before-the-dolphins/

I get that Victor Butler probably won’t be the best thing since sliced bread but I do think he brings hope with him. For four seasons, Butler was the primary backup at outside linebacker with the Cowboys. I’m just going to assume that if you’re the primary backup to Demarcus Ware in his prime, you have some skills, and if he is just half the player Ware was then, then that’s a pretty good off-the-street-acquisition. When Rob Ryan departed as the defensive coordinator, and took a similar job with the Saints, he personally handpicked Butler as his first defensive free agent-pickup, and saw Butler as the primary weapon when he transitioned the Saints’ defense from a 4-3 base to a 3-4 base. As many has wrote, it didn’t work out because of injuries, and obviously that’s a big concern along with the simple fact that no other team has taken a shot with Butler. However, it’s pretty obvious that Butler has – or maybe had – some skills, and really, at this stage you are not going to get a more or less surefire-pass rush daemon. I see this as the Cardinals taking a chance that, although it probably won’t, could pay dividends bigtime. At the very least, I would rather that they take the chance with Butler then keeping it rather safe with Marcus Benard.

As for Okafor, I still think he could be a good player with the Cardinals. As other stated he showed in college that he has the technique and strengths required. No, he is not a speed rusher but neither is players like Tamba Hali, Brian Orakpo or Ahmad Brooks but they’re seems to be doing just fine. Also I think it’s kind of interesting that Okafor is even on the team. I mean, it’s only been a month since Arians called out players in the training room, and well, Okafor has been in the training room almost since he was drafted. (Story here http://blog.azcardinals.com/2014/08/18/beware-b-a-noticing-the-training-room/) Not only did he once again make the final 53, in front of guys that could actually be on the field, but also when Thomas Kaiser was brought in Walt Powell got cut, not Okafor. The other day, when Abraham decided to return and Victor Butler was signed Marcus Benard, not Okafor, got cut. I figure there must be a reason. Maybe Keim sees something in Okafor. Maybe Arians does. Maybe Bowles, Tom Pratt, Mike Caldwell or Brentson Buckner does.
 

MadCardDisease

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The reasons the Saints signed him and if I remember correctly many here wanted him as well in free agency a few years back was because of this:

"11 career sacks and four forced fumbles across four seasons, though he's only played 803 career snaps, per Pro Football Focus. The typical starting 3-4 rush linebacker plays 900-1,000 snaps."

He was released after not being able to play in any Preseason games after tearing his ACL the year before.

If there were pre-ACL injury I would have high hopes, but that isn't the case so him Bernard or who ever else is out there is just bottom of the roster filler until they prove otherwise.

I had wanted the Cardinals to sign him as a cheap pass rusher who was young and had potential. The Saints signed him for similar reasons and for the fact that he played for Rob Ryan in Dallas and Ryan had just been picked up by the Saints as their Defensive Coordinator.

Butler only has One start in his career. He was the backup to Ware and Spencer. However in the very limited time he did see the field, he was effective as the stats you posted showed.

He has recovered from his ACL injury but an ankle injury prevented him from playing this offseason. If his ankle is OK then the Cardinals are smart taking a shot with this kid.
 

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