On Record For Kevin Kolb

[Mainstreet]

I agree K9. If we are going to pay a fortune to get this guy, he'd better be worth it this season. Otherwise go with one of the older veterans and hope Skelton will be ready within one or two years.

I'm not sold on Kolb therefore I do not want the Cardinals to overpay... at least not by a lot. I think kerouac9 has the right criteria. I want the Cardinals to improve their secondary to a position of strength with the addition of Petersen. I know I'm in the minority, but I think there is a fair chance Skelton will be the starter before the season is over but to rely upon it is suicidal. Whether Whiz would let him earn the starting job back is another matter. I just don't want the Cardinals to be locked into a QB because they gave up the farm to get him. I thought Skelton played well as a rookie coming from a small school being forced into a starting QB role in the NFL.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm not sold on Kolb therefore I do not want the Cardinals to overpay... at least not by a lot. I think kerouac9 has the right criteria. I want the Cardinals to improve their secondary to a position of strength with the addition of Petersen. I know I'm in the minority, but I think there is a fair chance Skelton will be the starter before the season is over but to rely upon it is suicidal. Whether Whiz would let him earn the starting job back is another matter. I just don't want the Cardinals to be locked into a QB because they gave up the farm to get him. I thought Skelton played well as a rookie coming from a small school being forced into a starting QB role in the NFL.

I don't know about suicidal but if it were up to me, Skelton would be the starter from day one. Kolb's a gamble and will cost us quite a bit, Skelton's a gamble but without the added expense. I'd run with Skelton and if he falters, I'd move Max Hall to starter and when he got carried off the field on a stretcher I'd toss in the next sacrificial lamb. If Skelton succeeds, we're in great shape and if not we should be in Luck territory.

Steve

 

[desertdawg]

I still got the same Kolb notes, if he sucks we over payed. If he's good it doesn't matter what we payed. We've done good with some and bad with some, especially QBs. I personally think things are really planned out for once. Time is all we have and time will tell sorta thing. Hope he is here when the camp goes.

 

[Cardiac]

I still got the same Kolb notes, if he sucks we over payed. If he's good it doesn't matter what we payed. We've done good with some and bad with some, especially QBs. I personally think things are really planned out for once. Time is all we have and time will tell sorta thing. Hope he is here when the camp goes.

Welcome back big guy, you've been missed.

K9 as usual has put a lot of good effort into his post. I'm not one to simply look at numbers as the deciding factor on whether a player is successful or not. I have gone back and forth on Kolb and whether I think he is the best choice for the Cards.

The Eagles used a 2nd rd pick for Kolb so fair or not they want more for him then that. I'm one who hopes we get him for 2 2nd rd picks with one of those picks turning into a 1st rd pick if he achieves certain criteria.

Offense finishes in the top 15. Don't care how we get there.

I usually agree with AzStevenCal but I do believe this team was a good QB and a good DC away from a 9 win or more team.

 

[Garthshort]

Good deal, or bad deal, I'm sure it's a done deal. And if Kolb reaches K9's performance stats, I won't mind that we overpaid for him. DRC is history, and while I'm sure he'll have a vg career, the QB position is more important. The only thing that will matter is how Kolb performs.

 

[MrYeahBut]

I've just got this queasy feeling in the pit of my stomach about Kolb....but I was elated at the Leinart pick...so what do I know?

Fair compensation, which I believe should not be a first round pick, is the gamble you have to pay. How often does a chance to pick up a possible good QB come around? Not alot, I don't think. There are solid arguments pro and con on any of the guys out there from those who know more than I do.

Whether Kolb is the correct choice is what all of us seem to look forward to with either anticipation or dread.

 

[Duckjake]

I'm not sold on Kolb, in fact, the only reason I'd consider trading for him is if that's what it took to keep Larry happy and in town. But still, it seems unreasonable to demand this much from Kolb in his first season with us. You guys can talk about him being experienced all you want but the truth is he's had a lot fewer opportunities than Leinart had and people were excusing his performances left and right last preseason. And despite his horrible preseason showing, many continued to bemoan the loss of him throughout the season.

I think Kolb should be able to show us something his first year but I'd expect and I'd accept some ups and downs. K9 put the minimum at 7.5 games (which means 8 wins) and someone else said we needed at least 9 from the guy. How many of you looked at our team last season and thought all we needed was a good QB to win 9 games? Not me. I don't think Peyton could have picked up more than 7 wins with this team. So how is it reasonable to expect a 3 game improvement and put it on Kolb's shoulders? The guy has thrown for 2000 yards total and now we expect at least 3500 from him in his first year with a new (and by all standards, BAD) team???

Yeah, the division is weak but we're one of the biggest reasons it's weak. And the other teams in our division have one big advantage over us - they get to play us twice.

Steve

If a guy has been in the NFL for 4 seasons as a QB and can't come in and play well right away in CKW's system then he's not NFL starting caliber and he'll end up a backup somewhere just like Leinart who was in the league for 4 years and couldn't show CKW he could play well.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Welcome back big guy, you've been missed.

K9 as usual has put a lot of good effort into his post. I'm not one to simply look at numbers as the deciding factor on whether a player is successful or not. I have gone back and forth on Kolb and whether I think he is the best choice for the Cards.

The Eagles used a 2nd rd pick for Kolb so fair or not they want more for him then that. I'm one who hopes we get him for 2 2nd rd picks with one of those picks turning into a 1st rd pick if he achieves certain criteria.

Offense finishes in the top 15. Don't care how we get there.

I usually agree with AzStevenCal but I do believe this team was a good QB and a good DC away from a 9 win or more team.

If Horton could figure out a way to put pressure on the QB with the players we had, you're probably right. I just don't know how he would have made up for the loss of Dansby, nor how he would have schemed away our obvious weaknesses (most notably Porter and Adrian). If he was capable of doing that last year and if Wilson's decline was at least partially injury related, I can't wait to see what our defense looks like this year especially with the addition of someone like Peterson.

I'd really hate to part with (2) seconds for Kolb and I'd hate it even more if one was conditionally a first. I think I'd rather give them DRC than 2 high draft picks. But, whatever we do, if we bring in Kolb I think it's unfair to hold him accountable for the cost of his acquisition. Also, I think it's unfair to expect him to be anywhere near his longterm potential given the shortened offseason, the fact he's with a new club and his VERY limited game-time experience. I don't think K9's minimums are completely unreasonable but I guess I'm hung up on the minimum 12 game/3500 yard combination.

Steve

 

[kerouac9]

Most of this looks reasonable except for some of your 2011 minimums. Kolb is still a fairly inexperienced player that is going to have to master a new system with (at best) a truncated offseason in which to learn and prep. I'm not sure it's fair to require the guy to lead us to 3 more victories in his first season as a Cardinal let alone his first full season as a starter. Also, 3500 yards might be a bit much (especially if we only see him for those 12 starts you mention). I would hope he'd grow into a top 10 QB but it seems unreasonable to expect that this season.

Steve

See, to me Anderson and Hall were so bad that they were worth -2 wins. The talent on the team was probably good enough for a 7 win team, but Whis's battery of banality shoved 2 more games into the loss column. If Kolb is even slightly above average, that should be worth one more win.

 

[Cardiac]

If Horton could figure out a way to put pressure on the QB with the players we had, you're probably right. I just don't know how he would have made up for the loss of Dansby, nor how he would have schemed away our obvious weaknesses (most notably Porter and Adrian). If he was capable of doing that last year and if Wilson's decline was at least partially injury related, I can't wait to see what our defense looks like this year especially with the addition of someone like Peterson.

I'd really hate to part with (2) seconds for Kolb and I'd hate it even more if one was conditionally a first. I think I'd rather give them DRC than 2 high draft picks. But, whatever we do, if we bring in Kolb I think it's unfair to hold him accountable for the cost of his acquisition. Also, I think it's unfair to expect him to be anywhere near his longterm potential given the shortened offseason, the fact he's with a new club and his VERY limited game-time experience. I don't think K9's minimums are completely unreasonable but I guess I'm hung up on the minimum 12 game/3500 yard combination.

Steve

Great points. I'm not expecting Kolb to be top 15 type QB for the entire season, especially based on what you stated about the shortened offseason. I do expect by game 8 or so that he performs as a top 15 type QB (at least QB rating) for the 2nd half of the season. If he doesn't then I reserve the right to adjust my thoughts on the trade and its value based on circumstances such as team injuries and the play of the O-line for example.

If Kolb meets the criteria that would excelarate one of the 2nd rd picks to a first then I'm still okay with it. The reason being is that we most likely would be picking at the back end of those rounds so the picks wouldn't be as valuable.

 

[TigToad]

Your list looks reasonable. I will add one exception, that being I think Toler and a 2nd is too much. Toler is a decent #2 and a great #3 CB... I think that was a very good pick on our part and I'd hate to lose him.

 

[AzStevenCal]

See, to me Anderson and Hall were so bad that they were worth -2 wins. The talent on the team was probably good enough for a 7 win team, but Whis's battery of banality shoved 2 more games into the loss column. If Kolb is even slightly above average, that should be worth one more win.

In a normal situation, I'd agree they would have been worth at least a -2 in victories but we had big problems even before these guys failed so spectacularly. Maybe it was just me but I thought our performance on D in the Houston preseason game drove home the fact that this was a very flawed team. Yes, our offense was so bad that our D would have eventually packed it in for the season in addition to wearing down in each game - but, we never even reached that point because our defense managed to stink it up all by themselves. And, let's face it, we were VERY lucky to get even 5 wins last season. I think people are still underestimating what we lost in Dansby.

I really have no concrete expectations of Kolb. I could see him coming in here and leading us to 10 wins and I could see him coming in here and (despite showing signs of being our QBOF) leading us to 5 or 6 wins. We have so many question marks on both sides of the ball that I just don't know where to put the bar for this guy. Sure, we need a solid QB but how do you hold that position accountable for victories when we so clearly need an improved O-line, a consistent running game and something resembling a pass rush just to be competitive.

Steve

 

[Shane]

If a guy has been in the NFL for 4 seasons as a QB and can't come in and play well right away in CKW's system then he's not NFL starting caliber and he'll end up a backup somewhere just like Leinart who was in the league for 4 years and couldn't show CKW he could play well.

Crap Matt was in the system for 4 years and still didn't know the playbook and formations. He sucks! Lol

 

[Russ Smith]

Come on K9 he can't possibly get 7.5 wins so you're setting him up to fail, there are no half wins in the NFL.

 

[desertdawg]

See, to me Anderson and Hall were so bad that they were worth -2 wins. The talent on the team was probably good enough for a 7 win team, but Whis's battery of banality shoved 2 more games into the loss column. If Kolb is even slightly above average, that should be worth one more win.

And add in that we did get lucky a couple of games, Whiz has a lot to change up this year too. Pass,pass,and then shotgun handoff aint going down this year. I still don't think DRC is going anywhere, probably just because I want to see him here with Horton and turn the page with our secondary. If we get Kolb or whoever, playcall is still going to be huge because we aint getting Warner.

 

[Duckjake]

Crap Matt was in the system for 4 years and still didn't know the playbook and formations. He sucks! Lol

Exactly. And where is he today? 3rd string in Houston. Thanks for helping make my point.

 

[40yearfan]

I don't know about suicidal but if it were up to me, Skelton would be the starter from day one. Kolb's a gamble and will cost us quite a bit, Skelton's a gamble but without the added expense. I'd run with Skelton and if he falters, I'd move Max Hall to starter and when he got carried off the field on a stretcher I'd toss in the next sacrificial lamb. If Skelton succeeds, we're in great shape and if not we should be in Luck territory.

Steve

The more I think about it, the more I tend to agree with you. We have never had much luck with our high priced free agents and I don't see that trend changing with Kolb. Let's spend that money on some good OL, DL and linebackers. If Skelton works out, we are set for a decade.

 

[Doc Cardinal]

The more I think about it, the more I tend to agree with you. We have never had much luck with our high priced free agents and I don't see that trend changing with Kolb. Let's spend that money on some good OL, DL and linebackers. If Skelton works out, we are set for a decade.

If skeleton doesn't work out we're more than screwed.

Kolb is da man.

 

[Longcolts]

I keep hearing that we'd be screwing ourselves out of the Luck sweepsteaks if we trade a first for Kolb, and while I'm not advocating that we do, what leads ya'll to think that we'll be in the position for the number 1 pick next year? Consider this. With the god awful situation we had at QB this past year and as bad as this team played we ended up with 5 wins and the number 5 pick in the draft.

 

[THESMEL]

Bottom line is our HC says it is always a team decision on personnel decisions, all the coaches have input and Whiz has the final say, problem is they have all sucked for a long time. Graves will try to get what Whiz and coaches want, but this is where Graves must be strong, sorry he is not, He is weak.

Kolb failed as a starter, stepped in as a backup on a well oiled machine for Philly for what 2-3 games in 6 years? The only reason why we pay so much for KOLB is because our staff was stupid for not benching ML last year, again and keeping 3-4 scrub QB's, and being allergic to committing to the run to help their scrub QB's.

IF this HC/ play caller thinks Pass Game Coordinator promoted to OC Mike Miller is going to call a balanced game and give any QB a fair chance to succeed, OK I'm down with KOLB.

The elimination of PGC/RGC was a system correction by Whisenhunt on Whisenhunt and I appreciate that. I think WHIZ has poor insight, poor judgement and makes poor decisions on staffing, personnel, play calling and philosophical aspects.

As evidenced by keeping only 2 QB's in 07 and scrambling for Tim and Tim mid season. Did he learn from that? KW was a hero but now Whiz is tried to force KW offense on scrub QB's last year.

We have deep threat Raiders style offense, a great RB squad that is a 2nd thought in a KW style offense, but not in the Steelers style offense we hired whiz and Grimm for.

We are near last in the NFL in Rushing attempts again, Only Mcnabb and the redskins had less last year. That is why I think Mcnabb and his maybe top in history playoff appearances is my first choice at QB, We could get him at a Bargain, He is as good as anybody at the deep pass style offense, If afforded a decent balanced running game.

He is proven beyond anybody besides Brady, P Manning and Brees, when he has a run game. He will smoke Kolb again! in a fair competition with a balanced game plan for at least 2 more years.

Beanie starting and getting 325 carries, THT backing up while Williams is learning, and LSH at ST with creative plays should be the total focus of this offense. before we even consider a forward PASS.

with that in mind Mcnabb would know exactly what to do with Fitz opportunities, and teach Skelton or another prospect how to go to 5+ NFCC games and SB's!

I honestly think Josh Mcnown has the skills, arm and wheels to lead us to the playoffs, If we were just slightly more run than pass in 2011. Giving our defense, ST and Oline a better than fair chance to succeeed, proceed on the side of traditional run game success with this stable of backs, used correctly and often, We rule the west

And have hope to return to the SB. I know, I know, My same complaint 5 years in a row. since Whiz benched Edge for not wanting o be a Olineman as a top 10 RB in history.

What would edge know about it? sheesh.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Josh Mcnown ????????????????

 

[Pariah]

I keep hearing that we'd be screwing ourselves out of the Luck sweepsteaks if we trade a first for Kolb,

I don't think anyone on this board think the Cards have a legitimate chance of picking first next year.

 

[Duckjake]

The more I think about it, the more I tend to agree with you. We have never had much luck with our high priced free agents and I don't see that trend changing with Kolb. Let's spend that money on some good OL, DL and linebackers. If Skelton works out, we are set for a decade.

40 I think we've done ok recently with free agents. We really haven't signed any high priced guys that required $25million signing bonuses or the type of deals the guys we lose have received. Mostly just 1-2 year $5 million deals. In fact I can't remember us ever signing a high profile, high priced free agent. Edge comes closest probably. I don't remember what he got but it was a 4 year deal. Maybe Steve Buerelein also???

Warner, Berry, EJames, Okeafor, Gandy, and Haggens are all FAs that worked out fairly well for us. The trade for Rhodes looks like a good deal for us as well.

On the other hand we have had a lot of rentals. Like Hood, McFadden, Holt, LaBoy, Al Johnson, Faneca and probably Porter. Our one year wonders.

(have we ever signed a free agent under 30 years of age? )

 

[Longcolts]

This board has a whole lot of really intelligent people on it and I would certainly hope they don't think that way. Although to be honest it wouldn't surprise me for the Cards to go 5-11 again any more than it would surprise me if they 10-6, no matter who is under center, with the exception of the fiasco we had last year at that position.

 

[THESMEL]

Yep I had Josh graded well above any QB we kept last year, fits our offense, and was 100% Cardinal when He was here. Which would be good for Skelton and the rest bf the team frankly.

Whiz's open door policy requires brave players to wear a cup! Edge, Q, Rolle, Dansby, Matty Even Beanie was neutered after voicing his opinion for 2 years in a row.

Whiz blaming the players for everything at the end of last year, while his staff and structures, personnel decisions failed miserably across the board, well it poisoned me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_McCown
McCown shot up the draft charts after an outstanding performance at the NFL Combine, which saw him post a 4.57 40-yard dash, a 10-foot long jump, and a 38½-inch vertical jump. After being drafted by the Arizona Cardinals in the third round of the 2002 NFL Draft, future Cardinals coach Dennis Green said of McCown, "I think he's going to be a great one, when I buy into a quarterback, I really do." McCown played as a quarterback for the Cardinals from 2002 until 2005. In his first season at Arizona, he played in two games, debuting against the Kansas City Chiefs when he entered to the game for starter Jake Plummer. In 2003 played in eight games with three starts Completed 95 of 166 passes with 57.2 for 1,018 yards with five TDs and six INTs and also rushed for a career-high 158 yards and a TD on 28 carries. His best season for the Cardinals was in 2004 when he played in 14 games and passed for 2,511 yards and 11 touchdowns. He also rushed for 112 yards and two TDs on 36 attempts. In his career he has rallied from a fourth-quarter deficit for a victory on four occasions, all of them in 2004. He connected on a career-high 76.9 percent of his passes, 20 of 26 at Atlanta. He started for the Cardinals at the first regular season game outside United States, played at Estadio Azteca on October 2, 2005 against the San Francisco 49ers, but McCown relinquished the starting role to Kurt Warner in 2005.

Josh Mcnown ????????????????