One More Move

[elindholm]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ns-the-atlanta-hawks-need-to-trade-josh-smith

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17809

Wait a minute -- you're citing hoopsworld and a college student's blog? Really?

 

[JCSunsfan]

33

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2411&leagueId=145121

He'd average 20 and 10 playing for the Suns.

And he's 25 years old.

Oops. I thought I got the numbers from nba.com. Thanks for the correction.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I haven't watched him play this year so I have no idea why his numbers would be down so much. Every time I've watched him in the past (admittedly, just a few games per year plus our matchups) he has been something special. I know I've heard a few things about his head but he's such an incredible athlete I'd risk it. I wouldn't hesitate to include Warrick if necessary although I like him as a backup 3.5.

Steve

Yep. It would be worth it. Then we would need to pick up a solid starting 2 in free agency (after VC is gone). Funny. The two spots we would look at filling after a deal like that would be 2 and 3. Since VC and Hill are both old.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yep. It would be worth it. Then we would need to pick up a solid starting 2 in free agency (after VC is gone). Funny. The two spots we would look at filling after a deal like that would be 2 and 3. Since VC and Hill are both old.

Unfortunately, there isn't an immediate fix to all of our problems but Smith would be a nice start. We need to replace Nash or we need to replace Dragic. Childress and/or Dudley can fill in for the wing positions but as starters they're average at best as opposed to the assets they can be by coming in off the bench.

Gortat improves us at the center spot but nobody really knows how good he'll be either. He's probably good enough to start in this league but he hasn't done it for any stretch so we really don't know for sure. It can't be a bad thing though that he's had to defend Howard in practice every day. And Frye falls in the same category as just about everyone else on this team. Quite an asset if viewed as a bench guy but probably a disappointment if forced to start regularly.

At least today's trade gives us a little financial flexibility going forward even if we were to acquire Smith's contract. I don't know if he's really available and I doubt that we could put in the winning bid but it's nice to dream regardless.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

Unfortunately, there isn't an immediate fix to all of our problems but Smith would be a nice start. We need to replace Nash or we need to replace Dragic. Childress and/or Dudley can fill in for the wing positions but as starters they're average at best as opposed to the assets they can be by coming in off the bench.

Gortat improves us at the center spot but nobody really knows how good he'll be either. He's probably good enough to start in this league but he hasn't done it for any stretch so we really don't know for sure. It can't be a bad thing though that he's had to defend Howard in practice every day. And Frye falls in the same category as just about everyone else on this team. Quite an asset if viewed as a bench guy but probably a disappointment if forced to start regularly.

At least today's trade gives us a little financial flexibility going forward even if we were to acquire Smith's contract. I don't know if he's really available and I doubt that we could put in the winning bid but it's nice to dream regardless.

Steve

I agree with most of your post except I don't think the Suns need to replace Nash or Dragic right now. I like the idea that Dragic can play the 2 and handle the ball as well. If the Suns could another PG, I can see Nash and Dragic playing in the same backcourt together on occasion sort of like the idea of playing Dumars and Thomas together for the old Pistons. Also I like the idea of adding Smith but I don't think Fry is getting enough credit. He has really showed more toughness this season.

 

[asudevil83]

I haven't watched him play this year so I have no idea why his numbers would be down so much. Every time I've watched him in the past (admittedly, just a few games per year plus our matchups) he has been something special. I know I've heard a few things about his head but he's such an incredible athlete I'd risk it. I wouldn't hesitate to include Warrick if necessary although I like him as a backup 3.5.

Steve

Smith has starting shooting 3's again.... last year he was so successful because he cut back on them.

Last year he shot only 7 threes (0%) and this year he's already at 45 (42%). which means that he's hanging around outside rather than inside and getting easy points and rebounds. his offensive rebounds are significantly lower than last season too

 

[JCSunsfan]

I agree with most of your post except I don't think the Suns need to replace Nash or Dragic right now. I like the idea that Dragic can play the 2 and handle the ball as well. If the Suns could another PG, I can see Nash and Dragic playing in the same backcourt together on occasion sort of like the idea of playing Dumars and Thomas together for the old Pistons. Also I like the idea of adding Smith but I don't think Fry is getting enough credit. He has really showed more toughness this season.

I agree about Frye. He could be very effective starting at the 4 along side a better C like Gortat.

I do think Gortat is the real deal and has the potential of averaging a double double, even this season if he can get the minutes.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I agree with most of your post except I don't think the Suns need to replace Nash or Dragic right now. I like the idea that Dragic can play the 2 and handle the ball as well. If the Suns could another PG, I can see Nash and Dragic playing in the same backcourt together on occasion sort of like the idea of playing Dumars and Thomas together for the old Pistons. Also I like the idea of adding Smith but I don't think Fry is getting enough credit. He has really showed more toughness this season.

Actually, that wasn't really my point. I think we are going to have to put a new starting point guard on the court in the fairly near future. Whether that is this year or 2 years from now I don't know but I doubt it will take much longer than that. At that point, we will either need to replace Nash or Dragic will move into that spot and we will need to replace Dragic.

I like Channing Frye and have been perhaps his biggest supporter on this board. However, he isn't the player that Smith is, IMO. I'd love to have Channing available to back up both Smith and Gortat with the occasional start when necessary.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

Actually, that wasn't really my point. I think we are going to have to put a new starting point guard on the court in the fairly near future. Whether that is this year or 2 years from now I don't know but I doubt it will take much longer than that. At that point, we will either need to replace Nash or Dragic will move into that spot and we will need to replace Dragic.

We are in agreement. I'd like to develop another PG to eventually replace Nash and do so in the next draft if the need for another big man does not prevail. I've always been for adding a third PG.

I like Channing Frye and have been perhaps his biggest supporter on this board. However, he isn't the player that Smith is, IMO. I'd love to have Channing available to back up both Smith and Gortat with the occasional start when necessary.

This would be an ideal situation. Every time I have see Smith play he has impressed me. I'm not doubting Smith is better than Frye but I haven't seen him play enough to know for sure. I would think if Smith came to Phoenix he would be a star based upon the skills I have seen.

 

[jagu]

We are in agreement. I'd like to develop another PG to eventually replace Nash and do so in the next draft if the need for another big man does not prevail. I've always been for adding a third PG.



This would be an ideal situation. Every time I have see Smith play he has impressed me. I'm not doubting Smith is better than Frye but I haven't seen him play enough to know for sure. I would think if Smith came to Phoenix he would be a star based upon the skills I have seen.

I think so too, runs the floor well, great at blocking shots, tremendous leap, a tough guard, young, and no chronic injuries. I'd love if we got Smith. As a Suns fan, I would actually have some hope again.

 

[JCSunsfan]

\I like Channing Frye and have been perhaps his biggest supporter on this board. However, he isn't the player that Smith is, IMO. I'd love to have Channing available to back up both Smith and Gortat with the occasional start when necessary.

Steve

Yep. If Smith came, Warrick would have to go. Smith just fills the Warrick role. Smith is a better defender and shooter. The thing that Smith would bring is a fairly complete game both offensively and defensively. Combine him with Gortat and Hill on a front line and it looks pretty sweet.

Can it be done?

Looks like Babby is a pretty good negotiator. Should be. We'll see how good he is at recognizing talent and putting together the right combos of talent and personalities.

 

[jagu]

Looks like Babby is a pretty good negotiator. Should be. We'll see how good he is at recognizing talent and putting together the right combos of talent and personalities.

In this move he showed that he wasn''t going to bend over for any trade. I'm glad we maximized the value of JRich and got back good players and traded away a bad contract packaged in.

Orlando doesn't look like they will have much D though if they are going to play Turk at the PF.

 

[HooverDam]

Wait a minute -- you're citing hoopsworld and a college student's blog? Really?

wait a minute, you haven't heard from tons of sources the Hawks have considered moving Josh Smith this year? Its been talked about in numerous sources, I just tossed it into Google and copied and pasted the first two links that came up.

To dismiss the notion entirely that the Hawks may move Smith because you don't like those sites is silly. If the Hawks are concerned about his salary, its a possibility.

 

[WuRaider]

To get Josh Smith, we need a 3rd team because Childress isn't eligible to be traded back to ATL:

Phx Gets
Josh Smith 11.7m

ATL Gets
Hakim 4.2m
Nazi Mohammed 6.8m (Expiring)
2 Phx 1st Rounders

Charlotte Gets
Childress 6.5m
ATL's 1st Rounder

I just randomly chose Charlotte but basically any team that has a player with an expiring contract worth around 6m will work in this deal. ATL gets about 7m in cap and 2 1st rounders to shed Smith's contract which is their MO. The 3rd team has to covet Josh (not many takers according to reports) but they're given a pick to sweeten the deal.

Nash/Dragic
VC/Pietrus
Hll/Dudley
Smith/Frye
Gortat/Lopez

Nash can make that team a contender easily. I hope you are reading this Babby Blanks

 

[elindholm]

wait a minute, you haven't heard from tons of sources the Hawks have considered moving Josh Smith this year?

No, I haven't, and I read hoopshype every morning, which seems to snag pretty much every legitimate rumor.

Its been talked about in numerous sources

Do any of them have any credibility? Once a "story" gets out there, even if it's something a college kid wrote while cutting class, everyone quotes it. Hundreds of redundant references to the same made-up "information" don't give the information any more validity.

To dismiss the notion entirely that the Hawks may move Smith because you don't like those sites is silly.

Let's talk again about those sites. The first one was hoopsworld, which (almost?) everyone knows is an absolute joke. The second one was an opinion piece written by a college student who is a Hawks fan. He thinks the Hawks should trade Smith, so he made up reasons for why they might want to do it, then justified them according to his personal agenda. Re-read it if you didn't get that right away.

Anyone "may" get moved. I asked why it was that so much of this board thinks that Smith is more likely to be moved than other players of his caliber. I got my answer -- people aren't considering the credibility of the sources they read.

If the Hawks are concerned about his salary, its a possibility.

He has only two years left after this one and is good value on his current contract. The Hawks are right around the luxury tax line. I don't see any urgency whatsoever for them to make a big move, and I seriously doubt that they do either.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Anyone "may" get moved. I asked why it was that so much of this board thinks that Smith is more likely to be moved than other players of his caliber. I got my answer -- people aren't considering the credibility of the sources they read.

I think I offered my opinion on this once before but, in the end, I don't really think he's all that available. It seemed to me that this rumor gained legs when the Hawks shelled out big to retain Joe Johnson. His name was already circulating through the rumor mill because the Hawks have a very good power forward in Al Horford and Josh is an exciting player who seems to have an unlimited ceiling (at least to those of us that see more of his highlights than his flaws).

All of that makes him a perfect target for teams (or fans I should say) hoping for a miracle but, like you, I've seen nothing credible to suggest it will happen. If they move him I suspect it will be to fill a void rather than to dump salary and with Horford there it would hurt them less to lose a player like Smith than it would most teams.

Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

Eric, I read Hoopshype daily, and I do recall seeing something about Hawks and possibly moving Smith at some point. I think it was during the Horford negotiations. Basically, once they signed Johnson, it was going to be either Horford or Smith that gets moved.

I do agree though, I see no reason to move Smith if I were Atlanta.

 

[elindholm]

Eric, I read Hoopshype daily, and I do recall seeing something about Hawks and possibly moving Smith at some point.

Okay, I guess I missed it, but there hasn't been anything in the last few months.

 

[overseascardfan]

I was thinking of other deals getting rid of one of our wings for a big as well. With rumors in Sacramento of either Thompson or Landry being on the outs, and the possibility of them wanting someone to take Garcia I thought of these:

VC/Lopez/1st for Daly/Thompson
or
2 of Childress/Pietrus/Dudley for Garcia and ONE of Landry/Thompson

Both deals drop us from 5 wings to 4 and gets us a legit PF.

They could also do something like VC for Brand or VC/2 1st's for Josh Smith

I like the first trade but think we shouldn't have to include the 1st rounder.

VC / Lopez for Daly / Thompson is a fair swap. We take Daly's contract off their hands and give them a younger, cheaper C in Lopez and they get relief from VC expiring deal. I am not in favor of trading anymore 1st rounders, they always seem to pan out and make us look like fools.

I actually favor a trade for Thompson over Smith because it shouldn't cost us much in terms of players and in terms of contract dollars. Plus SMith has been known for his bad attitude and clashing with coaches so Thompson's good character wins out. Smith may have ridiculous athleticism but I really think Thompson will be a star very soon.

Lineup:

Nash / Dragic
Dudley / Childress
Hill / Pietrus
Thompson / Warrick
Frye / Daly

 

[jandaman]

The thing with Josh Smith rumours... is that currently Hawks are not going anywhere... Horford is out of position at C, he should be PF... they need a legit athletic 7 footer....

Even if the rumours are just fan base.... Hawks will consider any trades that make them better... because right now... they are STUCK in the 4th or 5th seed out East... with no advantage over the elite 3.

Give them R.Lopez + Childress + Warrick for J.Smith + 2011 First pick.

New line up
C: Lopez
F: Horford
F: Williams
G: Johnson
G: Bibby

although I think they need a PG to make a harder push.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The thing with Josh Smith rumours... is that currently Hawks are not going anywhere... Horford is out of position at C, he should be PF... they need a legit athletic 7 footer....

Even if the rumours are just fan base.... Hawks will consider any trades that make them better... because right now... they are STUCK in the 4th or 5th seed out East... with no advantage over the elite 3.

Give them R.Lopez + Childress + Warrick for J.Smith + 2011 First pick.

New line up
C: Lopez
F: Horford
F: Williams
G: Johnson
G: Bibby

although I think they need a PG to make a harder push.

I think we would have to give them the pick in that scenario.

 

[HooverDam]

I think we would have to give them the pick in that scenario.

and we can't trade them Childress, so like has been mentioned a few times, Childress would have to be sent to a 3rd team. The problem is, Childress hasn't done anything since coming back to the NBA and the Suns gave him a contract thats rather long and likely unappealing to a lot of teams.

The Suns would likely have to send Atlanta both 2011 picks for Smith. Orlandos will be towards the end of the 1st and not very valuable and the Suns likely won't be in the lottery, especially not with Smith here.

 

[jandaman]

Childress HAS to be part of a package, because not much teams particularly want him alone to trade for.... either with another player or a pick or 2.

 

[jlove]

Take this as you will, but the guy that said the Suns were looking at dealing J-Rich and that 4 teams were HOT after Hedo, has said that his source has told him that the Suns have been inundated with calls for VC's expiring contract (HOT for it is the Nuggets and Blazers) and that their is talk between Portland, Atlanta and the Suns on a deal (that can't happen till Feb 18th - 60 days after we received VC since he'd be packaged with another Suns player). VC can be traded in a swap with another team or multi team deal as long as he is the only Suns traded within 48 hrs of the Suns getting him. The main guys in the deal, pending Atlanta's decision (apparently the Suns and Portland are already to do this), other players and/or draft picks involved are:

Portland gets: VC
Atlanta gets: Miller/Lopez
Suns get: Smith

I came up with a deal that can be done NOW and not have to wait till Feb 18th, as long as Portland and Atlanta would be on board.

Atlanta gets: Miller/Camby
Portland gets: VC/Bibby
Suns get: Smith

Portland is said to be shopping Camby (vet players anyways) to get young prospects/cap space. They get cap space with VC and they get a PG that doesn't dominate the ball or have the "same" aspects of his game to Roy.

Atlanta gets out of Smiths deal (so they can resign Crawford) while getting a better PG suited for their team and get a great defensive center to put Horford at PF.

Suns rid themselves of that 5th wing and bring in a big SF/PF that plays defense and can slash without giving up Lopez or Gortat in the process.

I'm sure we could throw in 1 or both of our picks and Atlanta throwing at least 1 pick to Portland in this deal as compensation for losing Camby and taking on Bibby as well.

He also stated that the Suns are looking at dealing for the following guys, and in this order.....Smith, Love, Nene. Why in that order is a wonder to me. I'm looking at what we may be able to cook up as far as just a VC to Denver deal or a VC to Denver in helping NY land Melo as well. Highly doubt there's anything we can do to get Kahn to give us, or anyone for that matter, Kevin Love.

 

[jlove]

Now as far as a deal between just us and Denver, there's only 3 deals that can be worked NOW is VC to Denver for Nene and Anderson....VC for Nene and JR Smith....VC for Nene and Harrington. The Nene and Smith deal don't help cause it ends up with us still having 5 wing players. With the Nene and Anderson deal, I would follow it up with sending them Lopez in a separate deal for a 2nd round pick since we get the better of the deal. Not sure if I'd touch Harrington or JR Smith deal.