OT: Brian Flores Suing NFL Alleging Racism

[AZman5103]

You’re whitewashing the argument. This isn’t just a) he got fired; b) he didn’t get another job; and c) he’s black. I recommend reading the complaint or an article describing the cause of action to better understand the arguments.

My argument is that he didnt get fired because he is black. He got fired because he publicly feuded with Tua. The Dolphins chose Tua.

That's all there is to this situation in my opinion. Anyone, including Flores trying to make more out of it doesn't understand in todays NFL the 2nd most powerful person in an organization is the "franchise" QB. I don't think Tua is that, at least not yet...but if the Owner of the Dolphins does that's all that matters.

Name 1 organization outside of the Patriots....MAYBE the Ravens but thats questionable.... who have a young, high pick QB who would not fire their coach if the Qb "demanded" it.

I know damn well the cardinals would. The Chiefs, Bills, Bengals, Chargers, Jags, Jets, Giants just did kind of...

 

[Jetstream Green]

Let's just put it this way. This has started out with legit grievances and has snow balled into a realm of broad acquisitions to satisfy multiple parties. I do know this is that there is the racism regarding the color green as in dollar bills and that which is not that color, one vice for another, and Wilks a black coach and Rosen a white QB were given the door for a white coach and a black QB because losing does not make you money

 

[slanidrac16]

Cripes in every post defending the status quo there’s a statement that implies the black candidate is inferior or unqualified . . . and we wonder why there’s a problem.

Not claiming that at all. However I will stand by my statement there may not be a more qualified every time a white coach, GM, or popcorn vendor is hired.

Why? Because it is all subjective to the person who is doing the hiring. It doesn’t immediately deem the owner as a racist or “ good ole boy” if the hire a white coach.

I’ll also stand by my belief that there are “ good ole boy” owners.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Not claiming that at all. However I will stand by my statement there may not be a more qualified every time a white coach, GM, or popcorn vendor is hired.

Why? Because it is all subjective to the person who is doing the hiring. It doesn’t immediately deem the owner as a racist or “ good ole boy” if the hire a white coach.

I’ll also stand by my belief that there are “ good ole boy” owners.

Which I will confidently say is Jerry Jones and not a Michael Bidwill... the Dolphins owner I think is just a prick and not part of even the good ole boy fraternity lol

 

[Cheesebeef]

This story gets more and more interesting...

Report that unnamed witness heard Stephen Ross offer Brian Flores $100,000 for each 2019 loss disappears from NFL.com

One of the most fascinating developments in a week full of them occurred when NFL Network, the media operation partially owned by Dolphins owner Stephen Ross, reported that an unnamed witness heard Ross offer former Dolphins coach Brian Flores $100,000 for each game he lost in 2019.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

 

[DaHilg]

If you read about Caldwell it kind of opens your eyes a bit to exactly what Flores is alleging.

Caldwell was the QB coach in Miami in 2019, he had a health condition and resigned to take care of himself. he said he completely remade himself, plant based diet now, but when he tried to get back into coaching people kept either saying no or saying they were concerned about his health.

Remember the cycle, after he was fired they hired Pagano who eventually hired Arians as his OC. Pagano got Leukemia so Arians was interim coach, Pagano recovered and got the job back. We hired Arians. When Bruce retired from us citing health issues we hired Wilks. Bruce sat out a year then came back and got the Bucs job. So the black guy takes a partial year off to get healthy and can't find another job. The 2 white guys, both of whom had more serious health issues come right back and get the job no problem.

And of course this year Caldwell at one point was considered a front runner in Chicago, 2 interviews blew them away, here's the offense I'm going to run, this is how we're going to develop Justin fields, and then they hired Eberflus the DC from the Colts instead. And Eberflus has now admitted he was offered both the Bears job and the Jags job and chose Chicago. The Jags still look like they might hire Leftwich but Caldwell is on their list too but considered unlikely there.

Doesn't mean it's because he's black but you can see 3 coaches all with health issues, 2 very serious one we don't actually know what was wrong with Caldwell. And the black guy is the one being told we're concerned about your health.

Not interested in digging up links/articles on this topic (as you’ve seen from my other post I very much do enjoy digging up these facts to validate my posts). The local media and fans couldn’t stand Caldwell for his ineptitude as a head coach. If he was worth a salt as a head coach, Colts would have kept him and so would have the Lions. I’m sure he’s a super nice guy.. also let’s not pretend those colts records with Manning at the helm were a factor of Caldwell at all. Peyton played 17 seasons.. won 10 games or more 15 times. Kliffy could of done just as good as a job w him.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

This story gets more and more interesting...

Report that unnamed witness heard Stephen Ross offer Brian Flores $100,000 for each 2019 loss disappears from NFL.com

One of the most fascinating developments in a week full of them occurred when NFL Network, the media operation partially owned by Dolphins owner Stephen Ross, reported that an unnamed witness heard Ross offer former Dolphins coach Brian Flores $100,000 for each game he lost in 2019.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

I would think they may have removed it, because they are finding it’s true and are trying to limit damage by incriminating anyone else in the league. If it wasn’t true, they would most likely print a retraction, on the record.

 

[Ronin]

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[football karma]

As far as I know Bieniemy runs Reids offense & may or may not call the plays.

Chiefs OC Eric Bieniemy declines to interview with Cardinals for coaching vacancy

He also ready has four interviews lined up in his bye week.

cardswire.usatoday.com

there is this

i also think that NFL rules on when you can talk to assistant coaches penalizes coaches of Superbowl teams --

 

[Russ Smith]

Not interested in digging up links/articles on this topic (as you’ve seen from my other post I very much do enjoy digging up these facts to validate my posts). The local media and fans couldn’t stand Caldwell for his ineptitude as a head coach. If he was worth a salt as a head coach, Colts would have kept him and so would have the Lions. I’m sure he’s a super nice guy.. also let’s not pretend those colts records with Manning at the helm were a factor of Caldwell at all. Peyton played 17 seasons.. won 10 games or more 15 times. Kliffy could of done just as good as a job w him.

Manning didn't win a playoff game until Caldwell became his QB coach. I'd love to have an inept coach take us to 14-2 and a Super Bowl.

 

[Ronin]

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[DaHilg]

Manning didn't win a playoff game until Caldwell became his QB coach. I'd love to have an inept coach take us to 14-2 and a Super Bowl.

Lol.. ya it was totally Caldwell ‍

 

[Ronin]

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

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This is a smart move, even if it’s just PR

 

[Buckybird]

Manning didn't win a playoff game until Caldwell became his QB coach. I'd love to have an inept coach take us to 14-2 and a Super Bowl.

And then again people ignore the fact that JC had one losing season in four in Detroit at 7-9. Should’ve won a playoff game in Dallas too except for a poorly throw flag that was called against them late in the game.

So yes he was successful outside of Peyton Manning

 

[DaHilg]

And then again people ignore the fact that JC had one losing season in four in Detroit at 7-9. Should’ve won a playoff game in Dallas too except for a poorly throw flag that was called against them late in the game.

So yes he was successful outside of Peyton Manning

Jim Caldwell’s timeout explanation doesn’t make sense

With 29 seconds left, the clock running and the Jets having the ball at the Colts’ 32-yard line, Indianapolis coach Jim Caldwell made a surprising decision: He called timeout. The TV cameras …

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

Just a little snippet of few of many examples why Colts fans were ecstatic to see Caldwell leave. You prob wouldn’t have take ACTUAL notice if you weren’t a die hard Colts fan.. or Lions fan.

But yes Caldwell for President ! Love fest by a few for no apparent reason other than reading a article that says he’s good or PC compliments!

 

[Russ Smith]

Jim Caldwell’s timeout explanation doesn’t make sense

With 29 seconds left, the clock running and the Jets having the ball at the Colts’ 32-yard line, Indianapolis coach Jim Caldwell made a surprising decision: He called timeout. The TV cameras …

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

Just a little snippet of few of many examples why Colts fans were ecstatic to see Caldwell leave. You prob wouldn’t have take ACTUAL notice if you weren’t a die hard Colts fan.. or Lions fan.

But yes Caldwell for President ! Love fest by a few for no apparent reason other than reading a article that says he’s good or PC compliments!

I agree his explanation is weird but if you look at the play by play the Jets had a timeout anyways. So its' not like him calling timeout allowed them to win the game. The mistake was giving up an 18 yard pass that put them in easy FG range instead of long FG range, they were going to get that play off anyways whether the Colts called timeout or not. Because he called the timeout, the Jets let the clock run down and then kicked the winning FG. If he doesn't call the timeout if they run the same play and complete it they're still going to kick the FG they're just not going to have to let as much time run down. I agree I don't get his explanation, but I think it's conjecture to say his timeout cost them the game when the Jets still had a timeout of their own.

• 1st & 10 at IND 34​

  (0:36 - 4th) L.Tomlinson up the middle to IND 32 for 2 yards (E.Foster).

• 2nd & 8 at IND 32​

  (0:29 - 4th) Timeout #3 by IND at 00:29.

• 2nd & 8 at IND 32​

  (0:29 - 4th) M.Sanchez pass deep right to B.Edwards to IND 14 for 18 yards (J.Lacey).

• 1st & 10 at IND 14​

  (0:03 - 4th) Timeout #3 by NYJ at 00:03.

• 1st & 10 at IND 14​

  (0:03 - 4th) N.Folk 32 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-T.Purdum, Holder-S.Weatherford.

 

[Russ Smith]

And then again people ignore the fact that JC had one losing season in four in Detroit at 7-9. Should’ve won a playoff game in Dallas too except for a poorly throw flag that was called against them late in the game.

So yes he was successful outside of Peyton Manning

A friend of mine is a Detroit fan he said he was almost happy to see Matt Patricia fail so badly because he didn't want them to fire caldwell and he got so tired of everyone insisting Patricia was going to take the team the next step that caldwell couldn't.

Side note to give another example of what Flores is talkign about. Patricia inherited a Lions team that went 9-7 the last year of Caldwell, Patricia went 6-10, and then 3-12-1 and the owner gave him a vote of confidence, they finally fired him the next year when they were 4-7. Note, after Patricia was hired it came out he'd been indicted for sexual assault in 1996, the Lions clearly didn't know about it, the team president outright said they didn't know but then later said after talking to Patricia nothing they learned would have changed their opinion on hiring him. So he was hired, then they found out he didn't tell them about something that even in the NFL would have been a consideration for a first time head coach, but they didn't change their minds.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

A friend of mine is a Detroit fan he said he was almost happy to see Matt Patricia fail so badly because he didn't want them to fire caldwell and he got so tired of everyone insisting Patricia was going to take the team the next step that caldwell couldn't.

Side note to give another example of what Flores is talkign about. Patricia inherited a Lions team that went 9-7 the last year of Caldwell, Patricia went 6-10, and then 3-12-1 and the owner gave him a vote of confidence, they finally fired him the next year when they were 4-7. Note, after Patricia was hired it came out he'd been indicted for sexual assault in 1996, the Lions clearly didn't know about it, the team president outright said they didn't know but then later said after talking to Patricia nothing they learned would have changed their opinion on hiring him. So he was hired, then they found out he didn't tell them about something that even in the NFL would have been a consideration for a first time head coach, but they didn't change their minds.

Yeah anyone ignoring the lions record on either side of Caldwell - in perpetuity - just seems to have a non-football agenda against him. He maximized Manning with a two-loss (what could’ve been undefeated season had they not rested players) super bowl season and he also had the best four year record of any four year span in lions history. Even if you ignore who was coach at the time you can’t string together four consecutive seasons of lions football and find more wins. There’s only one other four year span that even equals it.

 

[DaHilg]

I agree his explanation is weird but if you look at the play by play the Jets had a timeout anyways. So its' not like him calling timeout allowed them to win the game. The mistake was giving up an 18 yard pass that put them in easy FG range instead of long FG range, they were going to get that play off anyways whether the Colts called timeout or not. Because he called the timeout, the Jets let the clock run down and then kicked the winning FG. If he doesn't call the timeout if they run the same play and complete it they're still going to kick the FG they're just not going to have to let as much time run down. I agree I don't get his explanation, but I think it's conjecture to say his timeout cost them the game when the Jets still had a timeout of their own.

• 1st & 10 at IND 34​

  (0:36 - 4th) L.Tomlinson up the middle to IND 32 for 2 yards (E.Foster).

• 2nd & 8 at IND 32​

  (0:29 - 4th) Timeout #3 by IND at 00:29.

• 2nd & 8 at IND 32​

  (0:29 - 4th) M.Sanchez pass deep right to B.Edwards to IND 14 for 18 yards (J.Lacey).

• 1st & 10 at IND 14​

  (0:03 - 4th) Timeout #3 by NYJ at 00:03.

• 1st & 10 at IND 14​

  (0:03 - 4th) N.Folk 32 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-T.Purdum, Holder-S.Weatherford.

No necessarily.. would have put the honest on Jets to call a timeout immediately after that play. Would have entered 2nd w zero time outs left and more than likely a different play ran. Also, quite different and more jaw dropping of a wtf decision (just as Peyton and everyone else felt) when watching live Bs digging a play log transcript several years later.

 

[Muggz]

Sounds like the NFL needs to borrow the Point God for the next CBA.

 

[Russ Smith]

No necessarily.. would have put the honest on Jets to call a timeout immediately after that play. Would have entered 2nd w zero time outs left and more than likely a different play ran. Also, quite different and more jaw dropping of a wtf decision (just as Peyton and everyone else felt) when watching live Bs digging a play log transcript several years later.

I don't have the video but the play before was a run play for 2 yards so it seems unlikely either team had guys 40 yards downfield that were going to have to run very far to get back. So they had plenty of time to snap the ball. Yes the timeout gave the Jets a chance to call a play but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have run the same play anyways, the failing there was allowing an 18 yard completion. The other thing it does is give them a chance to use the middle of teh field because they still have their timeout.

Again I agree his explanation is weird I'm just saying from the plays it doesn't appear him calling timeout cost them the game. It didn't HELP them, but it didn't cost them the game, the 47 yard KO return by Antonio Cromartie cost them the game because it made it far easier for the Jets to get in FG range.

 

[DaHilg]

I don't have the video but the play before was a run play for 2 yards so it seems unlikely either team had guys 40 yards downfield that were going to have to run very far to get back. So they had plenty of time to snap the ball. Yes the timeout gave the Jets a chance to call a play but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have run the same play anyways, the failing there was allowing an 18 yard completion. The other thing it does is give them a chance to use the middle of teh field because they still have their timeout.

Again I agree his explanation is weird I'm just saying from the plays it doesn't appear him calling timeout cost them the game. It didn't HELP them, but it didn't cost them the game, the 47 yard KO return by Antonio Cromartie cost them the game because it made it far easier for the Jets to get in FG range.

Again, not really arguable point you are trying to make here. Odd are the play call is far different on 2nd down w zero timeouts vs 2nd down w 1 timeout.again - there is a reason why Peyton and every other colts fan was wtf about the timeout. As noted in the article this wasn’t the only dumbfounded call by Caldwell. In fact it was a consistent theme in his HC tenure w the Colts. Stuff you wouldn’t realize if you weren’t following the Colts every game during that tenure… but carry on.

 

[Russ Smith]

Again, not really arguable point you are trying to make here. Odd are the play call is far different on 2nd down w zero timeouts vs 2nd down w 1 timeout.again - there is a reason why Peyton and every other colts fan was wtf about the timeout. As noted in the article this wasn’t the only dumbfounded call by Caldwell. In fact it was a consistent theme in his HC tenure w the Colts. Stuff you wouldn’t realize if you weren’t following the Colts every game during that tenure… but carry on.

You're not following me. They did NOT have to call timeout there. They had plenty of time to get to the LOS and run a play. 29 seconds at the end of the play, a run play so nobody far downfield, they can easily get to the LOS in 10 seconds and run the exact same play knowing they have their own timeout. In fact that's exactly what the jets were doing before the Colts called timeout, they were NOT calling a timeout there.

Collinsworth agreed with you he said I don't think manning likes the timeout he doesn't want Mark Sanchez to go to the sideline and get some coaching here. But they have plenty of time to run the exact same play, call timeout and then kick the FG. Yes the timeout by Caldwell helped, and yes his explanation is weird, but take away his timeout and they can still run the exact same play call timeout and kick the FG.

Clearly Manning didn't like it.

8 losses his first 2 years and 2 of those were with the starters benched, I have a hard time believing Caldwell is the luckiest coach in history and won 24 games in 2 years despite being inept.

 

[Paso Fino]

I think the Cardinals could solve a lot of problems by naming Flores as HC.