OT: Brian Flores Suing NFL Alleging Racism

[juza76]

The #Jaguars are hiring Doug Pederson as their new coach. Another white HC hired. Wasn't he fired because he purposely lost the last game by taking their starting qb out so they could get a better draft position.

He won a superbowl with a back up QB, he deserve a chance more then others

 

[az jam]

Things took an even more peculiar turn in the Eagles' final game when Pederson removed Hurts in the fourth quarter of Philadelphia's Week 17 contest and inserted third-stringer Nate Sudfeld in a one-score game, essentially throwing caution to the wind and watching his offense finally come to a complete halt in the last minutes of 2020.

 

[DesertDevil]

The #Jaguars are hiring Doug Pederson as their new coach. Another white HC hired. Wasn't he fired because he purposely lost the last game by taking their starting qb out so they could get a better draft position.

Hopefully you'll be able to sleep tonight in spite of this terrible news.

 

[tnmike]

Hopefully you'll be able to sleep tonight in spite of this terrible news.

Well dang, I was really looking forward to that Crown Royal helping me to go to sleep

 

[Krangodnzr]

People seem to keep forgetting that the most likely reason Flores was fired was Tua. They clearly didn't like each other.

The organization chose their "franchise" QB and 5th pick in the draft over a coach with a losing record in 3 years. I don't know why anyone is surprised. Tua is owed more money, and could potentially have a much bigger impact on future success than Flores.

Lots of people on this board would be fine with firing Kliff is Kyler made it known he wanted a new coach. The only difference here is Flores is black. He should be unfirable? I guess I'm confused.

If his problem is with not being hired as a HC for a 2nd time, there could be a million reasons for that...including he was just fired as a HC, he had a losing record as a HC, and while a HC showed an inability to get along with a young franchise QB.

Tua hasn't shown a lick of evidence that he will be a "franchise" QB.

 

[kerouac9]

Who is the Black Lane Kiffin? A guy who failed over and over and kept getting chances until he found the right fit?

Wilks is never getting another head coaching job.

Flores is probably never getting another shot.

Hue Jackson is never going to get another look.

 

[Dr. Jones]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Literally the only thing running through my mind when I read this was......

SARVER!!!!!!

 

[juza76]

Who is the Black Lane Kiffin? A guy who failed over and over and kept getting chances until he found the right fit?

Wilks is never getting another head coaching job.

Flores is probably never getting another shot.

Hue Jackson is never going to get another look.

Rex Ryan also got many chances, his brother too

 

[Stout]

So tell me something that no one else has been able to tell me. What is the solution? I'm afraid it's the same Quandary as peace in the Middle East.

If I had the solution, I'd have won a Nobel Peace Prize. Not knowing the solution doesn't mean the talking points aren't valid. Not having a one-and-done solution doesn't mean the conversations shouldn't happen and we shouldn't be trying. The only way to ensure nothing ever changes for the better is whinging that there's nothing to be done and why don't we stop talking about all this race stuff.

 

[phillycard]

Who is the Black Lane Kiffin? A guy who failed over and over and kept getting chances until he found the right fit?

Wilks is never getting another head coaching job.

Flores is probably never getting another shot.

Hue Jackson is never going to get another look.

So right kerouac! Hell, Lovie Smith took a team to the SB, and I feel it's a wrap for him ever getting another shot. Sad man.

 

[Russ Smith]

I read a story last night about Jim caldwell, will try to find it it's a very long story but basically he's one of the guys cited by Flores in the story. Caldwell was at one point Peyton Manning's QB coach, Manning credits him with turning his career around, got him to cut his INT's, made him a more accurate thrower. Then he went to Detroit and did the same thing with Matthew Stafford. Stafford absolutely raves about him said again he saved my career, made me an NFL QB.

But Caldwell got into a similar situation when he was the Colts coach Manning got hurt and they tanked the year to get Andrew Luck. They intentionally didn't sign a good QB, went 2-14, got Luck and then fired Caldwell for losing 14 games. note, they were 14-2 his first year as the Coach! Went to the Ravens where as QB coach he helped them get to a SB with Joe freaking Flacco as QB. Then he got the Lions job 11-5 playoffs first year as coach, then 7-9, 9-7, 9-7 again wtih the LIONS! They fired him and hired Matt Patricia, Caldwell was 36-28 as Lions coach which is like 3 times the winning % of any coach before or after him in Detroit.

He's nearly 70 and yes we interviewed him for HC before hiring Kliff. honestly if you read the article and read the comments from QB's he's coached you'd be hoping we hire him as QB coach to work with Kyler.

 

[TheCardFan]

Lates rumors:

Bieniemey to Saints
Flores to Texans
O'Connell to Vikings

That would leave Dolphins open. C'mon VJ!

 

[AZman5103]

Tua hasn't shown a lick of evidence that he will be a "franchise" QB.

I completely agree, but it doesnt invalidate my point.

If the Dolphins think he is "the guy"...then he is the 2nd most powerful person in that organization behind the owner. A Franchise QB will always be chosen over a coach in todays NFL...theory being that any coach can win with a true franchise QB.

Im not saying I would have chosen Tua over Flores, but it is 100% what the dolphins did IMO...and I understand it. Flores had not done enough winning to go up against Tua and win.

 

[Metcalf Rules]

I read a story last night about Jim caldwell, will try to find it it's a very long story but basically he's one of the guys cited by Flores in the story. Caldwell was at one point Peyton Manning's QB coach, Manning credits him with turning his career around, got him to cut his INT's, made him a more accurate thrower. Then he went to Detroit and did the same thing with Matthew Stafford. Stafford absolutely raves about him said again he saved my career, made me an NFL QB.

But Caldwell got into a similar situation when he was the Colts coach Manning got hurt and they tanked the year to get Andrew Luck. They intentionally didn't sign a good QB, went 2-14, got Luck and then fired Caldwell for losing 14 games. note, they were 14-2 his first year as the Coach! Went to the Ravens where as QB coach he helped them get to a SB with Joe freaking Flacco as QB. Then he got the Lions job 11-5 playoffs first year as coach, then 7-9, 9-7, 9-7 again wtih the LIONS! They fired him and hired Matt Patricia, Caldwell was 36-28 as Lions coach which is like 3 times the winning % of any coach before or after him in Detroit.

He's nearly 70 and yes we interviewed him for HC before hiring Kliff. honestly if you read the article and read the comments from QB's he's coached you'd be hoping we hire him as QB coach to work with Kyler.

If I remember right, when the Cardinals were courting Flores for the job in 2018, he wanted to bring Caldwell along as OC. They obviously went with Wilks…yuck!

 

[BritCard]

I don't doubt there are issues in the NFL hiring process. However the issues in Flores suit and the way he has gone about the whole thing is garbage.

What he should have done is form a group with guys like Culley, Caldwell, Wilks etc and built a solid foundation of issues drawn from all their experiences.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Is there a problem? Yes.

But can we all agree that strides have been made over the years?

Are we there yet? No

Literally no one has said change hasn’t occurred. That said if you were on the receiving end of the disparate treatment would you want that thrown in your face or actual equality?we need to stop patting ourselves on the back fir becoming less racist and eliminate it altogether.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I am leaving whatever I can for my daughter and her kids after that.

I grew up ass poor and skipped multiple meals.

This inheritance discussion is a good one for P&R but very non sequitur for this discussion

Not really. When you’re talking about eradicating racism the conversation has to run deep. If you only scratch the surface you’re just giving lip service to it.

That said, I don’t begrudge you passing along your wealth. Those are the rules by which society has decided we play. But make no mistake, there’s no social equity in inheritance. It allows some to start out with 5 runs, some to start on third base, or second, or first, or at least to get three outs, or three strikes, and some that start out with a chain attached to a log clamped onto their leg whilst they bat. It was the same society rule that likely lead to your growing up “ass poor.” You should be commended for whatever effort and talent you brought to society to rise beyond that.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

People seem to keep forgetting that the most likely reason Flores was fired was Tua. They clearly didn't like each other.

The organization chose their "franchise" QB and 5th pick in the draft over a coach with a losing record in 3 years. I don't know why anyone is surprised. Tua is owed more money, and could potentially have a much bigger impact on future success than Flores.

Lots of people on this board would be fine with firing Kliff is Kyler made it known he wanted a new coach. The only difference here is Flores is black. He should be unfirable? I guess I'm confused.

If his problem is with not being hired as a HC for a 2nd time, there could be a million reasons for that...including he was just fired as a HC, he had a losing record as a HC, and while a HC showed an inability to get along with a young franchise QB.

You’re whitewashing the argument. This isn’t just a) he got fired; b) he didn’t get another job; and c) he’s black. I recommend reading the complaint or an article describing the cause of action to better understand the arguments.

 

[Russ Smith]

I can't find the article it was on my phone last night, I think Shaun King referenced it too.

But I gotta say after reading that article I would love the Cards to see if they can get Caldwell to come here and coach Kyler.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Not really. When you’re talking about eradicating racism the conversation has to run deep. If you only scratch the surface you’re just giving lip service to it.

That said, I don’t begrudge you passing along your wealth. Those are the rules by which society has decided we play. But make no mistake, there’s no social equity in inheritance. It allows some to start out with 5 runs, some to start on third base, or second, or first, or at least to get three outs, or three strikes, and some that start out with a chain attached to a log clamped onto their leg whilst they bat. It was the same society rule that likely lead to your growing up “ass poor.” You should be commended for whatever effort and talent you brought to society to rise beyond that.

Oh may gosh, I really don't want to get too involved in this, but I do want to point out there is a Federal estate tax (aka the death tax) that I believe probably serves as much or more a social engineering purpose as it does a revenue generator.

For those unfamiliar with it, I'll try to summarize about a million words of tax law into 50 or so:

When you die, the Federal government takes part of your net worth as a tax. Let's call the rate 40% for discussion purposes. So, in a nutshell, if Bill gates dies tomorrow, and his net worth is 20 Billion, then 8 billion goes to the government, and 12 to his heirs.

Now, as Ouchie or anyone else involved in the tax law will tell you, there are multiple, multiple caveats and exceptions to the above basic proposition. For example, if your net worth at death is less than 11 million or so, you're completely exempt from this tax, and the entire amount of your net worth goes to your heirs (which I agree with 1000%, and I personally would make all estates of less than 50 million exempt from the death tax).

However, I did want to point out this morning that there is a mechanism in place to prevent families from accumulating wealth unchecked. The tax applies to each generation. So every time a family's wealth is passed down to the children, the government takes a sizable chunk. And I support this. I don't want the Gates Family accumulating so much wealth that they decide to buy Maine, and the estate tax (aka the "death" or "transfer" tax) is one way to prevent this.

I'm not going to argue the merits of the estate tax beyond this post. If you hate it or like it or think that it doesn't work right, great. No tax law is perfect. But I'm on the record as saying it helps America stay America, and helps to prevent an oligarchy situation.

Carry on!

 

[TJ]

Would love for you to entertain me with your solution to this racist head coaching selection process since you're very passionate about this problem. How does a potential head coach get a "fair shake"

I dont know the answer. It's a complex situation. I do know that the status quo is not it. I also know that when noted failures like Kliff Kingsbury get a better opportunity at NFL HC jobs than Eric Bienemy, that there's a sistemic issue.

I'd hope that the people smarter than me and more aware have better solutions than the "Rooney Rule," which seems to be counterintuitive.

 

[kerouac9]

Oh may gosh, I really don't want to get too involved in this, but I do want to point out there is a Federal estate tax (aka the death tax) that I believe probably serves as much or more as social engineering purpose as it does a revenue generator.

For those unfamiliar with it, I'll try to summarize about a million words of tax law into 50 or so:

When you die, the Federal government takes part of your net worth as a tax. Let's call the rate 40% for discussion purposes. So, in a nutshell, if Bill gates dies tomorrow, and his net worth is 20 Billion, then 8 billion goes to the government, and 12 to his heirs.

Now, as Ouchie or anyone else involved in the tax law will tell you, there are multiple, multiple caveats and exceptions to the above basic proposition. For example, if your net worth at death is less than 11 million or so, you're completely exempt from this tax, and the entire amount of your net worth goes to your heirs (which I agree with 1000%, and I personally would make all estates of less than 50 million exempt from the death tax).

However, I did want to point out this morning that there is a mechanism in place to prevent families from accumulating wealth unchecked. The tax applies to each generation. So every time a family's wealth is passed down to the children, the government takes a sizable chunk. And I support this. I don't want the Gates Family accumulating so much wealth that they decide to buy Maine, and the estate tax (aka the "death" or "transfer" tax) is one way to prevent this.

I'm not going to argue the merits of the estate tax beyond this post. If you hate it or like it or think that it doesn't work right, great. No tax law is perfect. But I'm on the record as saying it helps America stay America, and helps to prevent an oligarchy situation.

Carry on!

And those mechanisms fail over and over and there is an entire industry of the highest credentialed tax and legal experts who's only job is to prevent the IRS from getting (almost any) of that money.

To just posit that Uncle Sam is gonna get $8 billion when Gates dies either naive or dishonest.

 

[Buckybird]

So Flores doesn't want a HC job then huh? Weird choice.

I've read through his "complaints" and looks like a bunch a crap that teams are already easily refuting.

Ross trying to lose games to tank has nothing to do with racism.

Ross trying to tamper with a QB isn't racism.

Daboll being hired over him isn't racism. They wanted an offensive coach and the guy that made Allen better was perfect for Jones.

Denver have already strongly denied his claims and say they have paperwork to prove it.

Very weird self inflicted wound from Flores who was considered a top coach and now likely won't work again any time soon.

Why would a HC who was asked by his owner to lose games on purpose not resign his position immediately? Sounds a little fishy to me as well.

The truth will come out soon. Sucks for all parties involved at this point.

 

[Russ Smith]

Why would a HC who was asked by his owner to lose games on purpose not resign his position immediately? Sounds a little fishy to me as well.

The truth will come out soon. Sucks for all parties involved at this point.

You can't spend your entire coaching career striving for a HC job, get one and then just quit over that. He said he was honest with them I'm not going to lose on purpose.

I completely believe that happened too many other coaches have said the same thing and it's consistent with what miami was trying to do. the thing is what we don't know is did they hire Flores to be their coach, or did they hire him to coach during the rebuild from tanking and then were going to fire him?

That's what happened to Hue Jackson and Caldwell, they were part of teams that tanked for picks, and then fired the HC for losing too much when the team clearly wanted to lose.

 

[az jam]

Why would a HC who was asked by his owner to lose games on purpose not resign his position immediately? Sounds a little fishy to me as well.

The truth will come out soon. Sucks for all parties involved at this point.

The billionaire owner would deny this and he would lose his job and be blackballed by the NFL. Just like what is now happening.