AZ Native
Living is Easy with Eyes Closed
I have never read about this. Truth is, if JG would have been offered to all teams, BB would have gotten a lot more for him. But he was no. Just B.B. being B.B.
OT: Garappolo 5y/137.5M
- Thread starter Dan H
- Start date
WisconsinCard
Herfin BIg Time
Word was he was offered more last year, so yes I believe that was BB sticking it to Kraft for "meddling in his player personnel business"...
moklerman
Rise from the Ashes III
This account of Jimmy GQ is pretty much the antithesis of what I've seen from him and what many think of him. Is it sarcasm? Not really sure where it's coming from. I thought he was overrated as a Pat but he was really impressive as a 49er IMO. What is it about his style of play that makes him any more injury prone that any other QB? Wentz, Roethlisberger and Newton I could see but JG? Seems like a pocket passer with a little mobility so I'm not sure why there'd be any inflated risk?wit3card said:
As far as needing a cast around him, again, he disproved that notion last year IMO. There are very few QB's who truly elevate a team around them. It is a common measuring stick for many QB's and most who get the opportunity don't show a whole lot. For a QB to play well and deliver wins with subpar talent around him is difficult. But that's exactly what JG was able to do with the 49ers last year. This isn't Matt Cassel stepping into a loaded Patriots squad or Steve Bono with the 49ers.
JG may ultimately not be worth the contract that he signed but I'd say he's a lot more Tom Brady(so far) than what Matt Leinart became. If nothing else, JG isn't playing with a less than average throwing arm. Plus, JG's personality isn't going to clash with the rigors of being a QB. Leinart wasn't exactly made for the pressure and scrutiny of life as a QB. As good as Whisenhunt and Haley were during that time, does anyone really think they were the right guys to get the most out of Leinart? In retrospect, they crushed him and ruined his confidence. Dennis Green would have been a much better coach for Leinart's career IMO.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
Where does offering draft picks to move to a position to select the top QB in the draft equate to desperation? When you don't have something, and are not in a position to get it where you are, you have to make a move for it. Where does paying Kirk Cousins the free agent market price come across as desperate? This is the cost of addressing this deficiency. We may not like the cost, but in the NFL's supply and demand market for a QB, these are the costs to acquire a top one with less risk.
There is more risk in signing Josh McCown than there is in signing Kirk Cousins. That is why he is cheaper. There is a greater chance of failure in putting your hopes on the 4th available QB in a draft than selecting the one you want out of the entire pool.
You call it a hail mary where I call it the requisite cost in ensuring the most important position in football is secure on our team. We can either pay the price it costs in either FA or the draft to get a QB, or sit and complain in three years that we have a new coaching staff and still don't have a long term QB option.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
If this is what it took to ensure we got a top 5 NFL QB for the next 10 years, I would do it. I can trade the other pieces. I can find another pass rusher. I can find a WR. I can find CB. For long term NFL success, nothing matters more than a QB. That is why the Eagles traded up for Wentz. Why the Texans and Chiefs traded up for Watson and Mahommes. Why the Vikings traded for Sam Bradford when Teddy got injured. It is why the Broncos signed Manning. It's why teams draft Dak, Jimmy, Rodgers and Russ despite having Romo, Brady, Favre or having just signed FA Matt Flynn to a huge deal at the time.
Solar7
Go Suns
I like Kirk Cousins and don't mind paying him. I'm not entirely risk-averse. The difference with Cousins is that we're on a reasonably equal playing field with the other teams. One way or the other, the only compensation a team is going to have to pay for Kirk is going to be that huge contract.
With moving up to the first overall pick, you're trying to fight someone who already wants the asset they have sitting in front of them, and five or more other teams that have better things to give up than you do.
When I was a kid, I used to play a trading card game named Marvel Overpower. Another kid had a Captain America special card that I desperately wanted to trade for. He needed it just as badly as I did. So did some of the other kids. Unfortunately I didn't have all that much he needed, so I had to offer twice as many cards and comic books as the other kids did in order to get it. And when I'd given away all of my stuff, a few months later I really missed it and wished I'd never made the move. The Captain America special card didn't help me out as much as I thought it would.
Same thing here. The QB is a piece of the puzzle, and it's the high volume of assets that we have to give away that concern me.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
QB is the piece of the puzzle. We have seen that a roster with Larry Fitzgerald, Calais Campbell, Adrian Wilson, and Darnell Dockett doesn't matter if you don't have a QB. And, even if you have a competent QB, you almost have to have a very special one in order to win a Super Bowl. Please don't bring up the Eagles, that was an outlier.
That is why the high volume of assets is REQUIRED in order to get one. Or dumb luck/terrible like the Colts.
Solar7
Go Suns
It's been more than 10 years since the #1 overall pick won a Super Bowl for the team that drafted them. In the past 20 years, only two QBs have done it, and it took Elway 15 years to do it. In the past 10 years, only three QBs drafted by their team in the top 5 picks have even made it to the Super Bowl.
Yes, you need a special one, but you also need the roster around you, and QBs come from many sources. What you will see, is that there isn't a single team on the list in 20 years with the exception of Elway (again, 15 years prior) that traded up into the top 5 for their Super Bowl appearing QB.
Look, if you watch tape, you see the flaws, you see him being quite a statue and that didn't bode well to his body early on and we know what statues do when the O-line can't keep him clean, they get hit badly and getting hit badly gets you injured. Kolb can tell you a story about that. Palmer and others too. If a young guy gets injured easy while older ones aren't injured that fast, they tend to go the Kolb way, but yes, that could be something that I'm wrong about, but you have to consider it.
And yes, he can be the saivor for the 49ers, althought I don't see it now, he could be the next coming of Brady, maybe. But what I say is, for now he isn't worth that money. Is he a good project for a QB? Yes you can train his flaws out of his body, Palmer changed his footwork with 36 good QB change everything if they think that gets them over the top. But is Jimmy Garapolo a top 5 QB and worth 30 Mio Bucks? No, he isn't at the moment. And with that much of money bound to him, in the next 3 year they can't afford to put a great supporting cast around him, because they don't have any on there roster now.
But okay.
For the rest, yes you can do one of the things, but best thing for a franchise would be, sign a cheap QB that can start for below 15 Mio bucks, sign a real backup for cheap and than wait for the draft to unfold and when you see the guy droping that you like snatch him up and draft him.
That is what Steelers did or the Seahawks and so on. Gosh Cousins, Foles wer drafted in the later rounds and not in the 1st. Indeed in the 2012 draft only not #1 and #2 rounders played this season and only the #3 rounders won a SB...
You all sound that we need a #1 rounder else we never will win a game again, when that is totally hyperbole and all your actions are hyperbole.
We need a QB that doesn't lose games. With that you can make the playoffs.
If you have a QB that can make a game winning drive, than you can strike gold. If you QB is good enough to keep you in the game and make a game winning drive when the D shows up, that is how you win. Everything else is optional.
And winning it all means you need more than only the QB ... and even QB+TE doesn't equate to a SB ring ...
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
Super Bowl Winning QBs
Nick Foles
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Russell Wilson
Joe Flacco
Eli Manning
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Ben Roethlisberger
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning
Ben Roethlisberger
Tom Brady
Tom Brady
You need a special QB to win a Superbowl. Why are you so hung up on how you acquire that QB and if it involves TRADING UP for the number 1 pick to do so? Why does it matter if the Colts took Manning at #1 or if they traded up to get Manning at #1. In the end, they got the best QB in the draft and he led them to a Super Bowl. If you can get a great QB, you have a better shot to get to the Super Bowl. End of story.
Because you change the narrative of the whole thing. Drew Brees, Rodgers, Foles, Brady, Flacco, Roethlisberger, Russel Wilson aren't the first choice, many not even the second or third.
Getting your Franchise QB doesn't need you to mortage your future. We could have drafted Ben instead of Fitz. Flacco instead of DRC.
And so on.
If you add Warner you have even more QB not being drafted at 1 overall or as the first QB or so.
So I'm clearly against trading up and giving up to much in the process, because getting the QB that works for you has so much other things to do with... than drafting high.
Solar7
Go Suns
@wit3card said it for me: because most of the guys on this list weren't the first choice. I don't want to blow years of draft picks that could make this team better as a whole to grab the #1 overall guy when the evidence shows that it doesn't take that to win it. Yes, you need a special QB, but those special QBs come from a myriad of sources.
The reason it matters whether or not they traded up is that another team had to PASS on the special player. You had to have a team say "this guy isn't good enough for us" or "we've got better" for that pick to be traded. Or, we have to give up the farm to "convince" them to move on. My point is that teams very rarely pass on special players at #1 overall at the position. If they're willing to look the other way, he must not be that good.
so...do you always trust other peoples judgement over your own?
By some of your statements I have seen today it would seem there is no point what so ever in drafting a QB in round one... because Cleveland already took the only one who is going to succeed.....
the bright side is...some folks think 5 QB's will be taken in the top 10...and I think those people are smoking top notch crack...we will have a couple of QB's to choose from at 15... even if its only Lamar Jackson and Mason Rudolph... Jackson is well worth the 15 pick... even though I have seen mocks showing him picked at 35...
the thing is... even if we have those two to pick from... Keim will probably pick Da'Ron Payne, or Billy Price
Solar7
Go Suns
No, I trust my own judgement, but my own judgement is what tells me to look at the data to make an informed decision. The data doesn't lie. It also tells me that there's 5 or so QBs that can go in the first round, so don't panic and blow your wad trying to be the first in line.
All I want is a measured approach instead of saying "**** it" and going for broke.
AsUpRoDiGy
Magnanimous
You also have to take into consideration the amount of teams that are desperate for a QB. Teams are much more aggressive in the draft now, especially when it comes to QB's. Teams that missed out on the likes of Rodgers, Wilson, Roethlisberger, et al., are no longer waiting around for their QB to fall to them. This doesn't mean you always have to trade into the top 5 to get your guy, but you have to do some risk/value assessment. For instance, If you're a GM and the QB you want slips to the 7th or 8th pick...these days you go get him, or you'll be left with a position-less LB instead.
We shouldn't spend, but we will see. And teams that missed out on Wilson, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Brady, Cousins, Foles and so on, will miss out again, since they miss because of bad evaulation and not because they now magicaly know it better, only by pure luck by overspending they will get something.
And having a guy with no weapons and o-line around to speak of, will result in great QB like Lynch, Carr(older Brother), Kizer and so on.
The draft is a crapshot and no science, else John Skelton would be a great QB ...
And if JG is worth 30 Mio $ will be answered in the next 2 years. But for 30 Mio $ a year the worst they should go is 10-6 ... if not that QB is overpaid.
