OT: Garappolo 5y/137.5M

[Chopper0080]

This is the most cherry picked argument I’ve ever read.

Russell Wilson was a 3rd round pick. It’s not like they traded up to #1 to take him.

The Patriots just won a Super Bowl with TB12. He was on a reasonable contract and they got good value for Bledsoe.

Keenum was signed as their third QB, when, literally, he said in an interview, “no one else wanted him.” We did the same basic thing with Gabbert.

Bradford/Wents I guess I’ll give you, but even then, it’s not Wentz that won them the Super Bowl.

Brees got paid $60 million and didn’t break the bank because of his injury. A risk, but still, lucky that it worked out.

Favre was an old man just about ready to retire. It was time to replace him. They didn’t make some shocking move by moving on. Not only did they draft Rodgers in the 1st, they drafted Brian Brohm in the 2nd as insurance for the future. It’s not like they let go of prime Favre.

Manning I’ll give you.

The Steelers did nothing for Ben. He fell to them, they took him.

Alex Smith didn’t pan out for a Super Bowl and we have no clue if Mahomes will either.

The Texans spent a bunch of money on Brock - which should be the best example here of why this approach is ridiculous - and traded him to shed his salary within a year. Then they moved up for Watson, which seems savvy but could flop after ACL #2.

Lastly, the Cardinals had Warner on their roster before drafting Leinart. It just so happened that Whiz hated Matt and the Cards got lucky with a suddenly resurrected player. That wasn’t us identifying the guy we wanted and paying for him, he was left for dead. We are the ones that put him on the bench behind Eli.

Wilson was a 3rd round pick who they drafted EVEN THOUGH they paid Matt Flynn like 8 mil.

Keenum was signed to go along with Bradford who they traded a first for AND while they had former first rounder Teddy B recovering from injury

Favre wasn't washed up when they took Rodgers, and they still drafted two Qb to ENSURE they had a viable one moving forward.

Alex Smith has made the Chiefs a playoff viable team.

All of these examples are of teams utilizing multiple resources to get the QB spot right. You know what happens if we signed Cousins and drafted Mason Rudolph in round 2? We probably end up with one of them being a pretty good QB over the next 5 years. And maybe Cousins only takes us to the playoffs...then we trade up in round 1 like the Chiefs for our Mahommes, and then trade Cousins away to a desperate team for a 3rd round pick.

I would rather watch the Cardinals get beat in the playoffs with Cousins than wallow in mediocrity of the 6-10 record range. We can always make a big move to get a guy we really want later.

 

[Chopper0080]

If you want to lose your job as a coach and a GM, THAT is certainly the way.

Why? 14 spots in round 1 comes with a cost. That is how far I would go, not what I would start offering. We have wasted more than 4 first round picks under Keim and we have still been ok. Two 1sts, a 3rd, and a Rb who we probably shouldn't re-sign to a second contract due to position and age? A QB solves all problems.

 

[DVontel]

Agreed, but I am for offering 4 first round picks to Cleveland for the #1 pick. Or two 1sts, a 3rd and David Johnson.

I just get tired of people complaining about the price of FA QBs, because that is the price. you can either pay it, or continue to suck. Same with drafting a QB. Move up or sit at 15 and get stuck with a guy who will get your coach fired.

Four?

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Chopper0080]

Four?

You must be registered for see images attach

I would give up Jonathan Cooper, Deone Bucannon, Robert Nkemdiche and DJ Humphries/Haason Reddick for Sam Darnold, yes.


(love the gif)

 

[Solar7]

Wilson was a 3rd round pick who they drafted EVEN THOUGH they paid Matt Flynn like 8 mil.

Keenum was signed to go along with Bradford who they traded a first for AND while they had former first rounder Teddy B recovering from injury

Favre wasn't washed up when they took Rodgers, and they still drafted two Qb to ENSURE they had a viable one moving forward.

Alex Smith has made the Chiefs a playoff viable team.

All of these examples are of teams utilizing multiple resources to get the QB spot right. You know what happens if we signed Cousins and drafted Mason Rudolph in round 2? We probably end up with one of them being a pretty good QB over the next 5 years. And maybe Cousins only takes us to the playoffs...then we trade up in round 1 like the Chiefs for our Mahommes, and then trade Cousins away to a desperate team for a 3rd round pick.

I would rather watch the Cardinals get beat in the playoffs with Cousins than wallow in mediocrity of the 6-10 record range. We can always make a big move to get a guy we really want later.

Right, but taking a third round pick isn't a risk. Signing a guy to be your 3rd QB for practically league minimum that has starting experience when your two top QBs are either injury or prone... not risky. Those are run-of-the-mill moves that every team in this league is prone to make every year. You list these moves as doing "whatever it takes," but they're only that in your mind because they are SUCCESSFUL moves. The Cardinals did exactly what the Vikings did this season, we just happened to sign Gabbert instead of Keenum.

No, Favre wasn't washed up, but he was coming to the end of his career... we all knew that. The Packers got a gift wrapped present set right in their laps when Rodgers fell, but they sure as hell didn't move up 15 picks to snag him. We should have snagged a guy last season too to be prepared, but not everything always works out.

We did the equivalent of the Smith deal by getting Palmer. He made us a playoff viable team too. So I don't know why this is supposed to be an example of the Cardinals not doing what it takes compared to another team.

I'm all on board with signing Cousins, and all on board with also drafting a QB if we do, since this is a deep class.

Why? 14 spots in round 1 comes with a cost. That is how far I would go, not what I would start offering. We have wasted more than 4 first round picks under Keim and we have still been ok. Two 1sts, a 3rd, and a Rb who we probably shouldn't re-sign to a second contract due to position and age? A QB solves all problems.

Keim hasn't drafted very well in the first round, but we do have some serviceable starters from it, and he also hasn't had the chance to pick in the top ten in 5 years. It's all been pretty late picks. You're willing to sell the farm for one guy and then give him no tools to work with, saying "go win it all yourself." If he fails, we forefeit top picks that could be used to make him super successful. And he'd probably fail miserably without our world class running back there to take the heat off of him.

Honestly, think about it - what if DeShaun Watson doesn't return to form? Do you think the Texans are currently happy they're missing out on a shot at Saquon Barkley, or one of the top rookie QBs? That's exactly how I see the trade up scenario - throw away multiple first rounders, and then find ourselves losing a top 5 pick and a truly blue chip player.

 

[DVontel]

I would give up Jonathan Cooper, Deone Bucannon, Robert Nkemdiche and DJ Humphries/Haason Reddick for Sam Darnold, yes.


(love the gif)

Well, when you put it that way:

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Solar7]

Well, when you put it that way:

You must be registered for see images attach

That's assuming Keim is going to keep drafting middling to bad players though... and, well, if you believe that, shouldn't you believe he's going to draft a middling to bad QB?

 

[Gandhi]

The message is you pay top dollar without hesitation to get a QB like Jimmy G or Cousins. Do it Cards

I still can’t really decide what I would like the Cardinals to do, but you are definitely right, Arz101, about how you pay up without thinking twice about it when it comes to a quarterback. Actually, it kind of surprises me how a lot of fans from various teams are sort of hesitant about signing a quarterback due to his perceived contract since the tendency in the league has been clear for years.

It’s only been two years since a lot of people were kind of stunned with the new deal to Joe Flacco that made him the highest paid quarterback ever. Now, only two years after that he’s the fifth highest paid quarterback in the league. Not long after him, Andrew Luck became the highest paid, and people wondered how a team could pay one guy that much money and that big a portion of their salary cap. Then Derek Carr surpassed Luck’s contract with his new deal, and barely two months after that Matthew Stafford got a bigger contract than Carr. Now Garoppolo has surpassed them all, and again, remember that all these five contract extensions where agreed to in as short a time span as two years.

In fact, during that period there was also the contract extensions to 37-year-old Drew Brees, making him the fourth highest paid player at that time, the new contract to 36-year-old Carson Palmer, making him the second highest paid player at that time and now 33-year-old Alex Smith has received a contract making him the sixth highest paid quarterback.

I understand that you could argue that all the quarterbacks mentioned above are either proven players or hotshots for the future, and you would probably be right. You could also argue, though, that most of them did not get paid relatively to where they rank among the best quarterbacks in the league, and that it is simply an expensive thing to have even a good-to-very good-but-not-great quarterback.

Drew Brees, Matt Ryan and Aaron Rodgers could potentially get new deals in the not so distant future, and I would be surprised in any one of those contracts were not the biggest in history when they are signed. I don't even think it's unimaginable that Nick Foles and Case Keenum will get rather huge contracts this offseason. Whatever Kirk Cousins' new deal will look like, he most likely won't be the highest paid quarterback, or even among them, for long. It is simply the way it goes.

We all want the Cardinals to draft a young stud quarterback that they can have at a cheap salary for four years while he leads them to multiple Super Bowl-victories and then he can get a hefty pay check. I just miss some reality in that thinking. Maybe it can be done, but it is not even close to being a sure or safe thing.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

Wilson was a 3rd round pick who they drafted EVEN THOUGH they paid Matt Flynn like 8 mil.

Keenum was signed to go along with Bradford who they traded a first for AND while they had former first rounder Teddy B recovering from injury

Favre wasn't washed up when they took Rodgers, and they still drafted two Qb to ENSURE they had a viable one moving forward.

Alex Smith has made the Chiefs a playoff viable team.

All of these examples are of teams utilizing multiple resources to get the QB spot right. You know what happens if we signed Cousins and drafted Mason Rudolph in round 2? We probably end up with one of them being a pretty good QB over the next 5 years. And maybe Cousins only takes us to the playoffs...then we trade up in round 1 like the Chiefs for our Mahommes, and then trade Cousins away to a desperate team for a 3rd round pick.

I would rather watch the Cardinals get beat in the playoffs with Cousins than wallow in mediocrity of the 6-10 record range. We can always make a big move to get a guy we really want later.

Yes it shows Keim is a bad gm; the only attempt to address the QB situation with an aging QB and no future QB; Was drafting Logan Thomas hahahaha Carr; Watson there were guys Cards could have acquired. Keim went on the win now mode. Keim didnt target David Johnson wasnt even the RB they wanted, it was Abdullad and thetLions moved up to snatch Abdalluh. I mean besides the Palmer move; Jones and the prove it deals? What does he bring to the table? Can't draft; falls in love with small school guys; loves drafting guys who changed positions, the Coaches hired were the last Coaches left after everyone was hired Arians/Wilks. Signed honey badger to a way big of deal hurt. I mean it goes on and on. Keim gets consistently outworked every draft as well; were teams move up to snag guys; because of the glaring holes Keim leaves on the team.

 

[Solar7]

We all want the Cardinals to draft a young stud quarterback that they can have at a cheap salary for four years while he leads them to multiple Super Bowl-victories and then he can get a hefty pay check. I just miss some reality in that thinking. Maybe it can be done, but it is not even close to being a sure or safe thing.

I want to triple and quadruple like this.

 

[Chopper0080]

Right, but taking a third round pick isn't a risk. Signing a guy to be your 3rd QB for practically league minimum that has starting experience when your two top QBs are either injury or prone... not risky. Those are run-of-the-mill moves that every team in this league is prone to make every year. You list these moves as doing "whatever it takes," but they're only that in your mind because they are SUCCESSFUL moves. The Cardinals did exactly what the Vikings did this season, we just happened to sign Gabbert instead of Keenum.

No, Favre wasn't washed up, but he was coming to the end of his career... we all knew that. The Packers got a gift wrapped present set right in their laps when Rodgers fell, but they sure as hell didn't move up 15 picks to snag him. We should have snagged a guy last season too to be prepared, but not everything always works out.

We did the equivalent of the Smith deal by getting Palmer. He made us a playoff viable team too. So I don't know why this is supposed to be an example of the Cardinals not doing what it takes compared to another team.

I'm all on board with signing Cousins, and all on board with also drafting a QB if we do, since this is a deep class.

Keim hasn't drafted very well in the first round, but we do have some serviceable starters from it, and he also hasn't had the chance to pick in the top ten in 5 years. It's all been pretty late picks. You're willing to sell the farm for one guy and then give him no tools to work with, saying "go win it all yourself." If he fails, we forefeit top picks that could be used to make him super successful. And he'd probably fail miserably without our world class running back there to take the heat off of him.

Honestly, think about it - what if DeShaun Watson doesn't return to form? Do you think the Texans are currently happy they're missing out on a shot at Saquon Barkley, or one of the top rookie QBs? That's exactly how I see the trade up scenario - throw away multiple first rounders, and then find ourselves losing a top 5 pick and a truly blue chip player.

Look, either way, if you don't get your QB, your GM and HC are getting fired anyway. Make the move to get the guy who you want to tie your career to. I would risk my career on Sam Darnold. I would give a up a haul to get him, because without a QB, it doesn't matter. I would not be willing to hang my career on Lamar Jackson.

Washington gave up the farm for RGIII...he failed...and they still made the payoffs like 2 of 4 years.

First round picks are important, but they are a bit overrated if you don't have a QB for them to support.

In regards to you DeShaun Watson case...the Texans are thrilled they have hope for the future at QB, because without one, Barkley isn't worth a damn. JJ Watt is meaningless. Clowney doesn't matter. Hopkins is just a fantasy star. We have seen that with Larry Fitzgerald.

Also, if you "sell the farm" for Darnold now, hell, you can now plan your offseason. You can determine if you want to drop the cash for Allen Robinson...or sign Norwell because you know you will have to protect the guy your career is tied to. You can cut Mathieu or other dead contracts because you will need that money next year. It sets up the entire plan, rather than just lingering in limbo wondering if it even matters to bring in a FA WR because you don't know who will be throwing him the ball or that guy isn't worth a damn because you wanted to go cheap.

 

[DVontel]

If we’re selling the farm though, it needs to be for Rosen, not Darnold, imo.

 

[Solar7]

Look, either way, if you don't get your QB, your GM and HC are getting fired anyway. Make the move to get the guy who you want to tie your career to. I would risk my career on Sam Darnold. I would give a up a haul to get him, because without a QB, it doesn't matter. I would not be willing to hang my career on Lamar Jackson.

Washington gave up the farm for RGIII...he failed...and they still made the payoffs like 2 of 4 years.

First round picks are important, but they are a bit overrated if you don't have a QB for them to support.

In regards to you DeShaun Watson case...the Texans are thrilled they have hope for the future at QB, because without one, Barkley isn't worth a damn. JJ Watt is meaningless. Clowney doesn't matter. Hopkins is just a fantasy star. We have seen that with Larry Fitzgerald.

Also, if you "sell the farm" for Darnold now, hell, you can now plan your offseason. You can determine if you want to drop the cash for Allen Robinson...or sign Norwell because you know you will have to protect the guy your career is tied to. You can cut Mathieu or other dead contracts because you will need that money next year. It sets up the entire plan, rather than just lingering in limbo wondering if it even matters to bring in a FA WR because you don't know who will be throwing him the ball or that guy isn't worth a damn because you wanted to go cheap.

If you put your chips all-in and lose big, you're not going to make it more than two years. Keim and Wilks have a couple of years of leniency to get it right. By busting big, they'll ruin the team, and possibly the fanbase. You'd risk your career on Sam Darnold? A guy that led the FBS in interceptions? Don't get me wrong, I think he's going to be good, but you're hoping and praying a guy that isn't even 21 by the time you draft him can win you all of the games on his own.

RG3 took them to the playoffs year 1 and won OROY. People quickly forget that. But having an awesome backup QB lucked them into making it one more time... the rest of the time they haven't finished above 3rd, and haven't had a winning season. 7 years of mediocrity, only really saved by the fact that they lucked out on a QB in the 4th round.

Sell the farm for Darnold before the combine happens? Before the opening of FA? When he hasn't completed interviews, his pro day and more? That's just going in blind, not going in educated.

 

[Buckybird]

I would take Jimmy G & that contract in a heartbeat.

How many post did I say go get Jimmy G? Guys are still laughing about the guy because now he got paid.

He’s going to start kicking our tail unless we get one of those stud QBs! It’s right around the corner

 

[oaken1]

If you put your chips all-in and lose big, you're not going to make it more than two years. Keim and Wilks have a couple of years of leniency to get it right. By busting big, they'll ruin the team, and possibly the fanbase. You'd risk your career on Sam Darnold? A guy that led the FBS in interceptions? Don't get me wrong, I think he's going to be good, but you're hoping and praying a guy that isn't even 21 by the time you draft him can win you all of the games on his own.

RG3 took them to the playoffs year 1 and won OROY. People quickly forget that. But having an awesome backup QB lucked them into making it one more time... the rest of the time they haven't finished above 3rd, and haven't had a winning season. 7 years of mediocrity, only really saved by the fact that they lucked out on a QB in the 4th round.

Sell the farm for Darnold before the combine happens? Before the opening of FA? When he hasn't completed interviews, his pro day and more? That's just going in blind, not going in educated.

if a team wer to trade for the top pick this week...
looking at it like, "selling the farm for so and so" is a mistake... instead, they are "selling the farm to have the first choice of all candidates"

but yeah..it would most likely be Darnold...

interviews can be important... but the combine wont teach you anything about the kid..

like people keep saying... look at the tape...when you do you see...skills, tools, talent, leadership, and more talent...and a couple of minor warts that are easily correctable

 

[Solar7]

if a team wer to trade for the top pick this week...
looking at it like, "selling the farm for so and so" is a mistake... instead, they are "selling the farm to have the first choice of all candidates"

but yeah..it would most likely be Darnold...

interviews can be important... but the combine wont teach you anything about the kid..

like people keep saying... look at the tape...when you do you see...skills, tools, talent, leadership, and more talent...and a couple of minor warts that are easily correctable

The Combine has taught plenty of teams not to go with a guy. It's well documented.

 

[cardncubfan]

How many post did I say go get Jimmy G? Guys are still laughing about the guy because now he got paid.

He’s going to start kicking our tail unless we get one of those stud QBs! It’s right around the corner

I've been wanting Jimmy G since he was available in the draft. Kid is going to be good. I would love him or Mahomes on the Cards.

 

[Chopper0080]

If we’re selling the farm though, it needs to be for Rosen, not Darnold, imo.

I think an argument can be made for either. My preference would be for Darnold, but I get the Rosen love. Hell, if we made an aggressive move, I would just be happy that we identified the guy we liked the most, and made a move to get him.

 

[Chopper0080]

The Combine has taught plenty of teams not to go with a guy. It's well documented.

Meh. I'm comfortable with Darnold's character as is, right now. If you need the combine for a QB at #1, the guy probably isn't worth it or you haven't scouted well enough.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I think it is way to early to be anointing JG as the next great QB. Yes the Niners won against a bunch of bad teams and a couple that were resting starters for the playoffs late last year.

However the Niners just bet the farm on a guy with 7 starts.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think it is way to early to be anointing JG as the next great QB. Yes the Niners won against a bunch of bad teams and a couple that were resting starters for the playoffs late last year.

However the Niners just bet the farm on a guy with 7 starts.

Hey they identified the guy they wanted to tie their careers to, got him, and then signed him. I can support that way of thinking. They know they are going into the offseason with the QB position set in their minds. They can build from there.

I would love for the Cardinals to be in that position.

 

[Solar7]

Meh. I'm comfortable with Darnold's character as is, right now. If you need the combine for a QB at #1, the guy probably isn't worth it or you haven't scouted well enough.

The Cardinals haven’t even had the opportunity to interview the guy. How can you say that’s enough? It’s like hiring some guy off of his resume and not bringing him in for an interview face to face.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Hey they identified the guy they wanted to tie their careers to, got him, and then signed him. I can support that way of thinking. They know they are going into the offseason with the QB position set in their minds. They can build from there.

I would love for the Cardinals to be in that position.

The Texans did the same thing a few years ago. They spent big on Brock Osweiler after he had success in a couple of games. The Texans thought they were "set" at QB after signing him...

I hear that Brock may be available if the Cards want.

 

[Buckybird]

Hey they identified the guy they wanted to tie their careers to, got him, and then signed him. I can support that way of thinking. They know they are going into the offseason with the QB position set in their minds. They can build from there.

I would love for the Cardinals to be in that position.

Great post!

You have to have foresight, a plan & then execute it! People can’t knock JG all they won’t, but imo the kid can play many years in this league. It might not work out with a ring, but they tried.

What plan have the Cards had for a QB lately? We’ve heard Keim & others talk about adding a QB more than once & yet they really haven’t tried to hard. Exactly why the Cards are in the mess they are in now.

The Cards need to adopt this phrase in getting a QB imo: “you can’t be right, if you are afraid to be wrong”. Just my 2 cents lol

It’s time & been way past time!

 

[Buckybird]

The Texans did the same thing a few years ago. They spent big on Brock Osweiler after he had success in a couple of games. The Texans thought they were "set" at QB after signing him...

I hear that Brock may be available if the Cards want.

Almost everyone with eyes could see that was a major mistake by Houston signing him. He really had shown much when he played. While JG had a smaller sample size, he looked & played the part.

The Texans QUICKLY realized it was a bad move after 1/2 a season & moved on. They went & got their guy in Watson & shipped off no playing ass Brock to a ******** franchise in the Browns.

Like Chopper is saying when have the Cards even tried to draft/sign/trade for a potential young stud QB after acquiring Palmer? They haven’t & that’s the issue.