OT - Report concludes Patriots probably cheated, Brady aware

[TJ]

I'm not sure how many times is has to be repeated but it is civil case like this probably is the same thing as beyond a reasonable doubt in a criminal case

Still have to bring something to the table beyond circumstantial evidence and hearsay.

The appellate court will have fun dissecting this and tossing all of the minutia.

 

[Shane]

League overreacted here. This is absurd.

What? You are blaming a guy for carrying himself with significant confidence when the entire league passed on him for 5 rounds? He then worked his wat into being one of the greatest QBs in NFL history. He bagged a super model wife? All after being benched heading into his senior year at MIchigan for a freshman phenom. His attitude is what got him here, and I don't see why people begrudge him of that.

Did he screw up here? Yes. Should he have lied? No. But a suspension in 2015 is better than a suspension in the Super Bowl. In that, he is smart.

Agreed. Brady is paying the "liar tax" which I'm sure he did because he didn't want to risk missing the Super Bowl. NFL kneejerk IMO, but if it ends up at 2 games, I see the reasoning. One for the offense, and one for the lie.

100% right on

 

[Dback Jon]

Still have to bring something to the table beyond circumstantial evidence and hearsay.

The appellate court will have fun dissecting this and tossing all of the minutia.

Murder cases of been one on circumstantial evidence and it's far more than just circumstantial evidence read the report with an unbiased mind

 

[TJ]

Murder cases of been one on circumstantial evidence and it's far more than just circumstantial evidence read the report with an unbiased mind

What bias do I have? I'm not a Patriots fan, I live 3000 miles from Foxboro, and my favorite team is in the other conference, so it plays the Patriots once every four years. I think the bias is the other way around, citing people who are saying that it's about time the dynasty has fallen, or that Tom Brady is a fraud because of the PSI in a football. There seems to be an obsession with this team from many people. If this were Blake Bortles and the Jaguars, nobody would give a rip; and actually, would probably ask for leniency.

Comparatively speaking, I'm probably more objective than almost everyone in this thread.

My point is, if you're going to levy a harsh penalty (4 game suspension, $1mil fine, first and fourth round draft picks removed), you better have substance to back it up when it comes time to face an appeal with backing from the Players Association. I don't think the Wells report has it; thus, I think this gets knocked down to 1-2 games. Moreover, there is no proper protocol in place by the NFL ensuring the proper PSI of each ball before the game, so it sounds like overcompensating for lack of institutional control by the NFL.

 

[Mainstreet]

Whether this penalty stands or not some heads will have to roll. There seems no question those balls were deflated and it goes to the integrity of the NFL. The NFL cannot turn their back on this because future events will follow.

 

[TRW]

League overreacted here. This is absurd.

Agree 100%.

And, I am NOT a Patriots fan. This is just stupid IMO.

 

[Rivercard]

What about the league's responsibility in ensuring the competitive integrity?

(allowing teams access to game balls... Really!)

I'm surprised there has been little talk about revising the game ball processes that each team is allowed to go through. It seems odd that every team has their own seperate footballs that they supply, and only they use. Golf is the only other sport I can think of that does that. The NFL needs to look at revamping this and creating some standardization.

 

[AZ Native]

League overreacted here. This is absurd.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[BW52]

I think the NFL got it right.Patriots past caught up with them and todays the day to pay.

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

Still have to bring something to the table beyond circumstantial evidence and hearsay.

The appellate court will have fun dissecting this and tossing all of the minutia.

This isn't a civil case. Its a "proceeding" governed by the collective bargaining agreement within the NFL. The "appeal" is to the Commissioner or to his designee.

Patriots quarterback Tom Brady will have three days to file an appeal of the four-game suspension he was given for his role in Deflategate.

Under Article 46 of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, Brady is entitled to an appeal before either NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell or someone else designated by Goodell.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/11/brady-has-three-days-to-file-his-appeal/

 

[Russ Smith]

What bias do I have? I'm not a Patriots fan, I live 3000 miles from Foxboro, and my favorite team is in the other conference, so it plays the Patriots once every four years. I think the bias is the other way around, citing people who are saying that it's about time the dynasty has fallen, or that Tom Brady is a fraud because of the PSI in a football. There seems to be an obsession with this team from many people. If this were Blake Bortles and the Jaguars, nobody would give a rip; and actually, would probably ask for leniency.

Comparatively speaking, I'm probably more objective than almost everyone in this thread.

My point is, if you're going to levy a harsh penalty (4 game suspension, $1mil fine, first and fourth round draft picks removed), you better have substance to back it up when it comes time to face an appeal with backing from the Players Association. I don't think the Wells report has it; thus, I think this gets knocked down to 1-2 games. Moreover, there is no proper protocol in place by the NFL ensuring the proper PSI of each ball before the game, so it sounds like overcompensating for lack of institutional control by the NFL.

There was, they measured the PSI then gave the balls to the team to rub up. Obviously the Patriots found the gaping loophole and removed the air after the balls had been checked. Seems a bit of a stretch to me to blame the NFL for the Pats cheating.

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

I think the NFL got it right.Patriots past caught up with them and todays the day to pay.

Yep, but I think TJ's prediction is right that this will be reduced somewhat after the appeal.

 

[Big D]

I think Goodell is setting himself up to have some serious egg on his face... (again)

Brady and Kraft are going to push very hard to have an independent arbitrator or panel preside over the appeal and Goodell doesn't exactly have the best track record in those instances.

"We will appeal, and if the hearing officer is completely independent and neutral, I am very confident the Wells Report will be exposed as an incredibly frail exercise in fact-finding and logic. The NFL has a well-documented history of making poor disciplinary decisions that often are overturned when truly independent and neutral judges or arbitrators preside, and a former federal judge has found the commissioner has abused his discretion in the past, so this outcome does not surprise me.

 

[Darkside]

I've heard some commentators speculating that this would put a strain on the relationship between Goodell and Kraft. Ridiculous. This is all about rich dudes playing pattycake. The best outcome for all involved is exactly what's happening. Goodell gets to try and show some backbone, and when Brady wins on appeal or gets it drastically reduced it'll be meaningless. The net gain is somewhere near zero, if not a positive public image gain for Goodell, which Kraft needs so he can keep lining his pockets with gold while continuing to win championships. It's rich people game.

 

[Jetstream Green]

My take is this. The Patriots cheated and then lied about it, if true Brady (who I think is the best QB in the game right now regardless) should be suspended the whole freaking season because it is the integrity of the game as this event happened in the very season that allotted them to win a Super Bowl. This happened on the football field where the NFL acting on it makes sense other than them playing moral police with suspensions outside of the game that truthfully has nothing to do with their jurisdiction in my opinion

 

[Cardiac]

Well I called for a 4 game suspension for Brady and that's what was handed down so I'm a genius and going forward my opinion out weighs anyone who disagrees with me

Heard Peter King today saying that the avg psi difference on all Patriot balls was less then .02 under the norm. Thing is the Colts player who intercepted Brady noticed immediately that the ball was shrunk.

What I'm sick and tired of is people finding excuses for someone/anyone cheating. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Once again the Pats caught breaking the rules...cheating and we have people defending them......??????

Circumstantial evidence my butkas. Anyone reading those texts that doesn't understand Brady was all about lowering the psi in the FB's is smoking crack while doing heroin. Brady is busted and his lying about it is reason enough to suspend him for 4 games.

Thing is I don't think the Pats wouldn't have won any of their SB's even if they hadn't cheated. Don't cheat Bill/Tom and you still win those SB's, so why do it?

 

[Russ Smith]

The new Pats Super Bowl rings.

 

[Darkside]

I refuse to look at that again, repeatedly.

 

[TJ]

Well I called for a 4 game suspension for Brady and that's what was handed down so I'm a genius and going forward my opinion out weighs anyone who disagrees with me

Heard Peter King today saying that the avg psi difference on all Patriot balls was less then .02 under the norm. Thing is the Colts player who intercepted Brady noticed immediately that the ball was shrunk.

What I'm sick and tired of is people finding excuses for someone/anyone cheating. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Once again the Pats caught breaking the rules...cheating and we have people defending them......??????

Circumstantial evidence my butkas. Anyone reading those texts that doesn't understand Brady was all about lowering the psi in the FB's is smoking crack while doing heroin. Brady is busted and his lying about it is reason enough to suspend him for 4 games.

Thing is I don't think the Pats wouldn't have won any of their SB's even if they hadn't cheated. Don't cheat Bill/Tom and you still win those SB's, so why do it?

You're not hearing people defend the Patriots, you're hearing people object to the severity of the punishment given the circumstances. This is akin to receiving a one-year jail sentence for jaywalking because a buddy told the cops that his friend doesn't like waiting to cross the street. Also, the four-month long investigation with 243 pages of information failed to find a smoking gun, and can only purport that Brady "probably" had something to do with altering the balls. Sorry, but that's simply not reason enough to drop the hammer the way the NFL did. 1 game is reasonable. 2 is a stretch, but understandable. 4 plus draft picks is an abuse of power by Goddell....again.

 

[TJ]

There was, they measured the PSI then gave the balls to the team to rub up. Obviously the Patriots found the gaping loophole and removed the air after the balls had been checked. Seems a bit of a stretch to me to blame the NFL for the Pats cheating.

So if there's a "gaping loophole," there's no proper protocol. The Competition Committee needs to close that loophole immediately.

We act like Brady is the only quarterback that has ever improperly modified footballs, when this happens more often than people want to admit to. After this surfaced, a number former NFL QBs came out of the woodwork and said this is a common practice in the league.

And at the end of the day, we're arguing over 1-1.5 PSI. The integrity of the game wasn't tarnished in any way and no one got hurt. Much ado about nothing.

 

[Mainstreet]

I hear the Patriots fumbled less so that is something else to look at besides the passing game if the balls were deflated.

This is a much bigger issue than what Brady may have preferred.

 

[Catfish]

Boo hoo hoo-----poor Tom getting all picked on by the league office. This was not just because of one game-----there were multiple reports of this over time and Brady denied it all along. This wasn't the first time the Pats have cheated either----and the league took that into account too------there was the video tape incidents where they were cautioned by the league ------there was the snow plow incident in the snow that won them a championship game. And it appears they gave them ample opportunity to clean the slate here too but it just continued.

Brady was not alone here----ownership is hit hard too and rightly so. One million dollar fine--------loss of first round pick in the 2016 draft-----loss of 4th round pick in the 2017 draft. The Pats have a history of cheating and they finally have to pay. So much for the owner Scalding the Commissioner when he got off the plane in Phoenix for the SB. That kind of arrogance did not, (and should not), fly with the league and the competition committee.

I have not got a lot of good to say about Goodell, but he did the right thing in my estimation on this point. Job well done Commish.

 

[Covert Rain]

If this doesn't send a message to teams nothing will.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Let's not forget the two low paid employees have been suspended by the team without pay for following team orders. Tom missing out on a million five is nothing compared to the Joes who followed orders. They cheated and deserve punishment too, but, unlike Tom and the team, their lifestyles are severely affected.

 

[Chaz]

I'm surprised there has been little talk about revising the game ball processes that each team is allowed to go through. It seems odd that every team has their own seperate footballs that they supply, and only they use. Golf is the only other sport I can think of that does that. The NFL needs to look at revamping this and creating some standardization.

I don't have a problem with teams bringing their own footballs. It is in the best interest of the league to have the QBs comfortable with the footballs within the rules.
What they need to revamp is the management of the footballs during the game.
From the initial inspection/approval they need to be under control of a league official until the end of the game.