OT: Revis Holding Out

[Chopper0080]

Per Schefter

It's official: Jets CB Darrelle Revis is holding out. Revis will not show up today, no one knows when he will again. Hard Knocks rolls on.

*I would offer next years 1st and 3rd rounders as well as 2012's 2nd rounder right now for this guy. Young shut down CB's are hard to come by, and I still don't fully trust our drafting. Revis and Rodgers-Cromartie would give us a championship level CB tandem, and dramatically make our pass rush better. This would change our defense, and take a ton of pressure off our offense.

 

[the_future23]

They're not trading Revis.

 

[187]

We'd have to give up at least two 1st rounders for Revis and like the_future said I doubt they have any intentions on giving him up. Revis-Wilson-Rhodes-DRC would be so nasty though. I might have to make a trade in Madden '11 once I start a Cards franchise..

 

[Chopper0080]

They're not trading Revis.

Probably not, but if ever you could get him, now would be the time.

 

[Shane]

No f'n way I give up that much for Revis. No way no how. Need all those high draft picks to build the belly of the team. You trade that much away and you are one blown knee away from giving up all that for essentially nothing!

 

[Buckybird]

The Jets have major $$$ problems brewing with several guys.

 

[187]

The Jets have major $$$ problems brewing with several guys.

That team is pretty screwed money wise, they've got a very expensive core to try and keep in place. Good luck to them on that.

 

[Chopper0080]

No f'n way I give up that much for Revis. No way no how. Need all those high draft picks to build the belly of the team. You trade that much away and you are one blown knee away from giving up all that for essentially nothing!

The Broncos gave up Portis for Champ Bailey and a 2nd. At that time, Portis was worth probably a 1st and a 3rd. This is a bit more, but a pretty comparable trade. Bailey has been great for Denver as I think Revis will be for the Jets. This year it would have been Dan Williams and Andre Roberts plus next years 2nd rounder. I would take that deal in a minute.

 

[PoolBoy]

how do you not trust our drafting? since whiz came it has been great.

 

[Captain Matt]

Sign Williams. Extend Dockett. Then offer the 1st, 2nd, and 4th picks for Revis and lock him in for 4 years.

Looking at next year's draft the priority now seems like CB, depth at ILB, and SS (barring injuries and assuming Leinart has an OK year). So locking-in a stud, young player at a position of need in an uncapped year seems pretty smart.

I know it won't happen (unless it's on Madden), but it does sound freaking awesome. Good idea. Wish it was a possibility.

 

[Buckybird]

how do you not trust our drafting? since whiz came it has been great.

Great?

How about good to very good. If this years class of Williams & Washington are Pro Bowlers in a few years I will agree. Mucho better than the pre denny Green era.

 

[Shane]

The Broncos gave up Portis for Champ Bailey and a 2nd. At that time, Portis was worth probably a 1st and a 3rd. This is a bit more, but a pretty comparable trade. Bailey has been great for Denver as I think Revis will be for the Jets. This year it would have been Dan Williams and Andre Roberts plus next years 2nd rounder. I would take that deal in a minute.

What did having Champ do for the Broncos? They were a medocre team with a great CB. As were the Skins with Champ.

That's just to much to give up IMO. Good rosters are made primarily through the draft.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Jets wouldn't make that deal, I am certian they would want DRC in return + picks to move Revis...

 

[Chopper0080]

how do you not trust our drafting? since whiz came it has been great.

We have made some great individual picks, but I wouldn't say that our draft classes have been great as a whole. Our second thru fourth rounders have been shaky at best.

 

[Duckjake]

What did having Champ do for the Broncos? They were a medocre team with a great CB. As were the Skins with Champ.

That's just to much to give up IMO. Good rosters are made primarily through the draft.

Mediocre? They went 13-3 in 2005 with Jake Plummer at QB. That's amazing not mediocre.

Meanwhile the following year Bailey has TEN Interceptions and the Broncos don't even make the playoffs.

 

[Shane]

Mediocre? They went 13-3 in 2005 with Jake Plummer at QB. That's amazing not mediocre.

Meanwhile the following year Bailey has TEN Interceptions and the Broncos don't even make the playoffs.

Overall they were mediocre during his tenure there.

 

[Chopper0080]

Overall they were mediocre during his tenure there.

He was a dominant player on a team that had 4 different defensive coaches over that period. A great corner shuts down half a field. Two great corners make scheming offensively very difficult. Does a CB hide poor QB play? No. Does it move Dumervil from the bench to a 3-4 OLB? No.

I guess you could make the same argument with Boldin as well. We were terrible for the majority of his tenure as well. I understand your point that 1 player does not make a team. However on the right team, one great player can get you to the Super Bowl.

 

[Chopper0080]

Jets wouldn't make that deal, I am certian they would want DRC in return + picks to move Revis...

and then we would not make that deal. I am not saying that the Jets are looking to trade him. I am saying that it would be dumb to not throw a tempting deal on the table and see if they bite. No players, just picks (as I can't think of any players on our roster that they would want and we would give up).

 

[kerouac9]

*I would offer next years 1st and 3rd rounders as well as 2012's 2nd rounder right now for this guy. Young shut down CB's are hard to come by, and I still don't fully trust our drafting. Revis and Rodgers-Cromartie would give us a championship level CB tandem, and dramatically make our pass rush better. This would change our defense, and take a ton of pressure off our offense.

Yowza. I love Darelle Revis. There's no question about that. The problem is that with the draft picks you're also giving up a $70 million contract with $30 million in guarantees. That's too high a price, even for a Pro Bowl corner who is entering his prime. At least, IMO.

With the Denver/Washington example, you had two players who were unhappy with their contracts (I think that Champ might have been a Franchise player at the time). Denver wasn't going to pay huge money (at the time) for a running back when they know they can take 1200 yard runners off the street (RugbyMuffin could rush for 3.5 per carry and 1000 yards in Shanahan's offense), but they'd never been able to identify a cornerback in free agency or the draft.

Combine that with the fact that you're going to be looking to extend DRC in the next two years (probably), and he's going to want as much if not more than Revis.

If Warner were still here a deal like this could almost assure another Super Bowl appearence. Then, it might be worth considering (especially with the prospect of no football next year). But when you don't know what you're going to have on offense this season (and I say this as someone who's been by Matt's side since he was drafted), I'm not sure that's what you want to do.

If Warner were still here, I would (maybe) have been a big proponent of going the early '00s Titans route and just mortgaged the future for one last Super Bowl run by doing something like that. But that's not where we're at right now--whether we're rebuilding or re-loading, the Cards are working personnel with at least half an eye to 2012 and beyond.

 

[Chopper0080]

Yowza. I love Darelle Revis. There's no question about that. The problem is that with the draft picks you're also giving up a $70 million contract with $30 million in guarantees. That's too high a price, even for a Pro Bowl corner who is entering his prime. At least, IMO.

With the Denver/Washington example, you had two players who were unhappy with their contracts (I think that Champ might have been a Franchise player at the time). Denver wasn't going to pay huge money (at the time) for a running back when they know they can take 1200 yard runners off the street (RugbyMuffin could rush for 3.5 per carry and 1000 yards in Shanahan's offense), but they'd never been able to identify a cornerback in free agency or the draft.

Combine that with the fact that you're going to be looking to extend DRC in the next two years (probably), and he's going to want as much if not more than Revis.

If Warner were still here a deal like this could almost assure another Super Bowl appearence. Then, it might be worth considering (especially with the prospect of no football next year). But when you don't know what you're going to have on offense this season (and I say this as someone who's been by Matt's side since he was drafted), I'm not sure that's what you want to do.

If Warner were still here, I would (maybe) have been a big proponent of going the early '00s Titans route and just mortgaged the future for one last Super Bowl run by doing something like that. But that's not where we're at right now--whether we're rebuilding or re-loading, the Cards are working personnel with at least half an eye to 2012 and beyond.

Truthfully, I am probably more on this because I look at what we drafted this year, and I see a lack of value. I can't say that Dan Williams, Andre Roberts and a 2nd round pick next year aren't worth Revis.

Contractually this would wrap us into 6 large dollar contracts. Leinart (if preforms), Fitzgerald (needs to be extended), Levi Brown (will hit accelerators and top5 pick), Dockett (need to extend), Rodgers-Cromartie (will require big money soon), and Revis. Not terrible and should still give us room to maneuver. It would be a gamble, but I think it would be worth it.

 

[kerouac9]

Truthfully, I am probably more on this because I look at what we drafted this year, and I see a lack of value. I can't say that Dan Williams, Andre Roberts and a 2nd round pick next year aren't worth Revis.

Contractually this would wrap us into 6 large dollar contracts. Leinart (if preforms), Fitzgerald (needs to be extended), Levi Brown (will hit accelerators and top5 pick), Dockett (need to extend), Rodgers-Cromartie (will require big money soon), and Revis. Not terrible and should still give us room to maneuver. It would be a gamble, but I think it would be worth it.

Adrian Wilson is a large-dollar contract already done. Also, if we're going to get a top-shelf pass rusher, that's going to cost money, as well.

EDIT: I would also say that if Dan Williams turns into the next Casey Hampton or Vince Wilfork, that's going to be great value. It took Revis two or three seasons to come into his own as a cornerback and become Revis Island.

 

[Chopper0080]

Adrian Wilson is a large-dollar contract already done. Also, if we're going to get a top-shelf pass rusher, that's going to cost money, as well.

EDIT: I would also say that if Dan Williams turns into the next Casey Hampton or Vince Wilfork, that's going to be great value. It took Revis two or three seasons to come into his own as a cornerback and become Revis Island.

Wilson's contract was for 4 years, and this would year 2 correct? Also, isn't it for around 6 million/year. I could be wrong there, but if so, that isn't a huge contract and is about 1 million more than Dockett makes now.

I get what you are saying in regards to player development, and how players can turn out. I just have a hard time saying "no way" to a player of Revis's caliber. I get that this is pure conjecture, but some players are worth a look at. There are Jared Allen's out there who can be had in certain circumstances for the right price, and who can significantly help your team.

 

[kerouac9]

Wilson's contract was for 4 years, and this would year 2 correct? Also, isn't it for around 6 million/year. I could be wrong there, but if so, that isn't a huge contract and is about 1 million more than Dockett makes now.

I get what you are saying in regards to player development, and how players can turn out. I just have a hard time saying "no way" to a player of Revis's caliber. I get that this is pure conjecture, but some players are worth a look at. There are Jared Allen's out there who can be had in certain circumstances for the right price, and who can significantly help your team.

I'm totally with you. But I think that Jared Allen was a different case. Jared Allen completed a defense that was #1 in the league in stopping the run, but just could not get enough pressure on the quarterback. Matt Leinart completed like 45 passes against them as a rookie. Allen (and later Favre) were supposed to make the difference between a team that was contending for a wild card spot and a team that was contending for a championship.

I don't think this defense is there. If we had a premier pass rusher (like Allen) and an offense that I knew could score 24 points a game, then I'd consider it in a the-future-is-now kind of way. I think you could rebuild a season later starting with Fitz, Dockett, Campbell, and others.

Keep in mind also that Calais is going to be a third-year player this year. After 2011 (if there's football), he's going to be a free agent. This team is going to be build and maintained on the lines and with a couple of other "leadership" guys.

So Rod Graves has his work cut out for him to keep this group together.

2010: Breaston (maybe--I'd say this is a 60% possibility), Leinart (I'd say that this is a 20% possibility if he plays well--like 3200 yards, 27 TDs, 10 INTs), Dockett (90% possibility), Lutui (50% possibility if a CBA gets done).

2011: L. Brown, C. Campbell, L. Fitzgerald, M. Leinart (if nothing gets done this offseason), DRC?

And on into the future. And he still has to find a premire pass rusher somewhere in the draft, because those guys don't come cheap in free agency, and they're hard to find in the middle rounds.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

So Rod Graves has his work cut out for him to keep this group together.

. that sentence right there is enough to concern me.

 

[Chopper0080]

. that sentence right there is enough to concern me.

Truth.

2010:
-Dockett extended.
-Lutui gone.
-Breaston gone.

2011:
-Leinart extended.
-Fitzgerald extended.
-C Campbell extended.
-Levi Brown gone.
-G Hayes gone.

2012:
-DRC extended.
-B Wells extended.
-Brandon Keith extended.
-Herman Johnson extended.


This is a scary schedule for a GM who is notorious for his ponderous negotiating style.