Anyone that thinks Russell Wilson isn't worth the 16.7M a year 5 year contract he just got is ridiculous. We have all watched him play. We have all seen his leadership and what he brings to the table. I would rather have Russell on his 5 year contract that he is on now than Palmer at their respective salaries.
OT - Russell Wilson gets paid
- Thread starter kerouac9
- Start date
OP
OP
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Let's split the difference:
http://overthecap.com/player/russell-wilson/1569/
This year his cap number is about $7M; it's less than $18M the next two years, and doesn't go over $21M until 2017. LOL — Russell Wilson's cap charge the next three years is less than Carson Palmer's.
Wilson is somehow going to get nearly as much as Aaron Rodgers over the next four years and be up for another extension at age 32. Wild.
TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
If you honestly believe Wilson buys you 3-4 wins on a bottom-feeder team, I have some ocean front property in Goodyear I'd like to sell you.
Something else of note. One thing the Hawks do is extensions, instead of tearing up the contract. It really works out in their favor. Next year, they still have more cap space than us even with this new deal by over 3 million dollars despite having
Russ locked up, J Graham, Lynch, Avril, KJ, ET, and Sherman. Not to mention the salary cap will go up again. They have them all locked up (except Lynch) For another 3 seasons and still have not used as much as their salary cap as us to put things into perspective. They are not going to be a bad team any time soon.
OP
OP
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
That's a powerful argument. You underestimate how terrible the quarterbacking of the Jags actually is. Adding Kyle Orton to the Bills midway through last season pushed them from 6-10 to 9-7. Going from Matt Schaub's rotting corpse to Ryan Fitzmagick and a cast of guys who are good at throwing a ball through a tire pushed the Titans from 2-14 to 9-7.
If you don't think that adding even a Top 12 QB to the Jags — who have develeopmental Josh McCown under center — doesn't push them to .500, you're crazy.
Can you really, honestly say to yourself and the board that Carson Palmer is better than Russell Wilson?
BurqueCardFan
Hall of Famer
In today's NFL, he is worth the money. All QB's get paid ridiculous amounts of money as long as you are halfway decent. Look at Cam, Tannehill, Alex Smith, etc... I just think Wilson's success is more a product of his defense and running game.
BurqueCardFan
Hall of Famer
At this stage in their respective careers, Wilson is probably better. Carson has had two major knee injuries and on the backside of his career. But I would have taken Carson Palmer over Wilson if we are comparing the beginning of their careers.
Since you like stats, how does Carson Palmer's first three full 16 game seasons compare to Wilson's (2005-2007)? Probably similar, if not better for Palmer.
OP
OP
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
For the sake of speed, let's look at the averages for rate stats. Palmer's first season as a starter was 2004 — he started 13 games including week 1, and he had an additional year on the bench behind Jon Kitna. Let's also admit that we're comparing apples to oranges, because (a) Palmer came into a team that earned the #1 overall pick in the draft by being terrible, and (b) Wilson adds additional value by rushing.
(Palmer, Wilson)
Completion %: (63.8, 63.4)
Yards: (10768, 9950)
YPA: (7.4, 7.9)
TD: (78, 72)
INT: (43, 26)
DVOA: (19.2%, 13.6%)
W: (25, 36)
L: (20, 12)
Wilson also has 1800 yards rushing in his first three seasons; fold those into his passing totals and you have yardage parity.
What this comparison really shows is how much wild value the Seahawks got out of a 3rd round pick. He essentially performed as well as you could expect from a #1 overall pick that worked out.
TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
The Bills are not a good example as they had a top-tier defense last season. All they needed was a QB who could push the ball up the field and make minimal mistakes, which was Orton and not Manuel. Same with Houston. Top-tier defense and a great running back, just need a QB who was not a liability.
Seattle already had a stout defense and good running game before Wilson came aboard. As they added and developed players on that defense, they got better. That team's success is mostly predicated on only allowing 15-17 ppg and excellent field position for the offense.
That said, while I feel Wilson is a Top 12-15 QB, I think that team would be fine without him. If Peyton went down in Denver, they'd be screwed. Same with Rodgers in Green Bay and Luck in Indy. Those teams rely heavily on their QBs.
BTW--I'm not going to get into it with you on Foles, but here's a nice pic of Wilson totally ignoring an open man to scramble right:
You must be registered for see images attach
Your boy certainly isn't perfect.
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
The greatness of Wilson is illustrated by how many think so many other QBs could've done what he's done. He's not Brady or Manning. He's not even Kurt Warner. But, he is incredibly gifted - physically, and even more important is his mental strength. The guy is simply a winner - period.
Talk of what he would do if he were on some other less talented team is just nonsense. If you need to win a game, I your chances with Wilson at QB.
Talk of what he would do if he were on some other less talented team is just nonsense. If you need to win a game, I your chances with Wilson at QB.
GatorAZ
feed hopkins
Are we assuming the 6 other defenders are off the field?
Russell Wilson certainly got his way with the guaranteed money but nobody can criticize Seattle for doing this deal. Yeah the financial ramifications might impact them significantly down the road but their core is under control for the next two seasons; Wilson, Lynch, Graham, Wright, Sherman, Thomas, Chancellor, Bennett, Avril and likely Bobby Wagner. What fan would happily take on future cap hell for an extended SB window?
TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
The fact that this topic is heavily debated in the national media and on message boards is evidence enough that he's not up there with Rodgers, Luck, et. al. Tebow was "simply a winner" too, but he doesn't have the chops to make it in the league.
Wilson is most definitely gifted physically and mentally, but he's also a QB who benefits tremendously from an outstanding supporting cast. What if he did sign with someone else? How well would the Seahawks do if he went down with an injury? How would he fare playing against his own defense?
Personally, if I'm starting up a new team, there are a number of QBs I'd take before him.
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
That's all easy to say and pure speculation TJ... Wilson, aside from his many gifts, is also an incredible leader who in his first few years in the league commanded and got the respect of his teammates, without exception.
We don't know if some other QB could have equaled Wilson's achievements...
What we do know is that the guy has been incredibly successful with little NFL experience. The Hawks did exactly what they had to do.
TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Not disputing the majority of that. If you find a QB with whom you can win, you lock him up. The supply and demand ratio makes it that you have to spend heavily even if that person isn't a HoF caliber dude. There are too many Sanchez and Manuel types to scare people from taking risks in the draft. From that aspect, Wilson deserves to get paid. What I don't agree with is that he's in the conversation with the elites.
Average or great at least he's not free anymore. Anyway you look at it I don't think they will drop to the bottom of the NFC west any time soon. But it wont be as easy to stay way out front.
Cap hit as of now.
2015. 7.54 mill.
2016. 18.5 mill.
2017. 18.5 mill.
2018. 21.7 mill.
2019. 23.2 mill.
In all IMO a good deal for both sides. As a Cardinals fan it's at least a lot more than chump change. They will have to prove they're better than one great draft. More players yet to get paid.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/russell-wilson/
Cap hit as of now.
2015. 7.54 mill.
2016. 18.5 mill.
2017. 18.5 mill.
2018. 21.7 mill.
2019. 23.2 mill.
In all IMO a good deal for both sides. As a Cardinals fan it's at least a lot more than chump change. They will have to prove they're better than one great draft. More players yet to get paid.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/russell-wilson/
Last edited:
GatorAZ
feed hopkins
Wagner also strikes a deal. 43M.
Cbus cardsfan
Back to Back ASFN FFL Champion
- Joined
- May 14, 2002
- Posts
- 21,653
- Reaction score
- 8,067
bortles is the Jags Qb. McCown is in Cleveland. And, yes, some of us prefer Palmer to Wilson, for the short term anyway.
Seahawks release DT Tony McDaniel to make some salary cap room for recent signings.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
QB numbers have changed dramatically since 2004. It's not really a good comparison. Same with your comparison to Brees as well. I don't know if you remember this, but Brees was viewed as a bust up until his last year in San Diego and was exactly a sure thing when he went to New Orleans.
OP
OP
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
1. Brees went to the Pro Bowl in 2004 — two years before he left for the Saints. He wasn't viewed as a "bust," but he wasn't seen as a guy who could take advantage of the defense and running game and lead the Chargers to a Super Bowl (sound familiar?)
2. I didn't get the request on making the comparison — I just fulfilled it.
3. I don't think that Russell Wilson is a finished product yet. Unlike a lot of veteran contracts where you're paying for past performance not future production, I expect that Wilson is going to get at least incrementally better as he's given more weapons.
Let's turn the table here for a minute. How well would Palmer do if he was playing in Seattle instead of Arizona the last two years? What kind of numbers would he put up with the run game and defense Seattle has? What would Wilson do under BA the last two years and even more so what if he was under The Whiz? Would Wilson be able to handle BA's offense? Would Whiz have ruin him in one short year?
I don't think there are many QBs who would be successful in any environment or any offense. The fit has to be right. Take Brees as an example, he was pretty good (by no means a slouch) in SD however once he moved into NO and got into the Payton offense he really took off and didn't always have a great running game nor did he always have great receivers. He just fit that offense well or Payton fit the offense to Brees.
I think Wilson is a good QB however I can't place him in with guys like Manning or Rodgers until he is put into a situation where he becomes the key cog in the offense. A guy who can will his team to a few victories every year because of his play. Wilson hasn't been required to do that yet over a extended period of time.
I don't think there are many QBs who would be successful in any environment or any offense. The fit has to be right. Take Brees as an example, he was pretty good (by no means a slouch) in SD however once he moved into NO and got into the Payton offense he really took off and didn't always have a great running game nor did he always have great receivers. He just fit that offense well or Payton fit the offense to Brees.
I think Wilson is a good QB however I can't place him in with guys like Manning or Rodgers until he is put into a situation where he becomes the key cog in the offense. A guy who can will his team to a few victories every year because of his play. Wilson hasn't been required to do that yet over a extended period of time.
OP
OP
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Dude, have you ever actually watched a Seahawks game? This is one of the most ignorant comments that I've ever seen.
Palmer in Seattle the last three years would look like Palmer in Oakland because he would've had terrible targets and a makeshift passing offensive line.
TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Wilson and B.A. would be a mismatch. Wilson's bread-and-butter is his ability to improvise; not necessarily stay in the pocket, survey the field, and throw down the field. Rarely do I see him go through his progressions before taking off (one-to-two reads). Plus, having an elite back in Lynch provides the dual threat of who is going to take the ball on the run in read/option plays.
Palmer's ability to operate in the pocket and survey the field makes him a better fit for B.A's offense. Outside of the pocket, he's not mobile like Wilson and is little threat to run (well, that 10 yard scamper against San Diego that saved a drive last season was pretty cool
).In short, Wilson and Palmer are both in offenses that are a good fit for their respective skill-sets.
Last edited:
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
No, I believe THIS is one of the most ignorant comments I'VE ever seen. He's presenting an opinion, K9, one differing from yours. That doesn't make him ignorant. Lighten up, Francis.
I get it. You think Wilson's elite. A lot of people think it's the elite running game and elite defense making him better. I fall somewhere in between. As to the comment you labeled as 'one of the most ignorant comments you've ever seen', I think it's spot on. He hasn't been relied upon to be the guy that has to carry the team for large chunks of the season. You know he hasn't.
I'm not saying he's bad or just average--he's definitely a good QB, but he's riding the best run game and the best D in the league, and has been for several years. Wilson won't reach that elite level for a lot of people until HE'S the one carrying the team.
OP
OP
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Wilson can "will his team to a couple victories a year" with his play. He IS a key cog in that offense — his ability to run and make good decisions with the football is one of the reasons his offense is as efficient as it is. Marshawn Lynch became a more effective running back after Wilson became the starter. That running game can be effective despite starting spare parts because teams are worried about Wilson on the play-action.
Wilson is what people like Ron Jaworski was hoping Colin Kaepernick can become two years from now. There are more ways to take over a football game and will your team to victory than throwing for 400 yards.
