OTAs, May 23-25, Jun 1-3, Jun 6-9, 2022.

[kerouac9]

This is going to sound spicier than it should, but Zaven Collins heading into year 2 is nearly identical to Andy Isabella heading into year 2. Isabella had 150 offensive snaps where he didn't show much, reports of his struggles to adapt his rookie year but was also drafted high and had nice reported athletic numbers. Both from smaller schools and both being asked to do something different than what they did in college.

Oof.

 

[DVontel]

I will see this and raise you...imagine investing premium capital for players only to use them in a completely different way than they were successful in college.

At some point, you have to be able outperform the scheme.

I repeated this a lot, but I don’t think there’s a successful way for Isaiah to be used.

 

[football karma]

both being asked to do something different than what they did in college.

what is diff for Collins? calling the D? was he a OLB in college? ( i know some draft stuff had him projected as a 4-3 SAM)

 

[football karma]

At some point, you have to be able outperform the scheme.

I repeated this a lot, but I don’t think there’s a successful way for Isaiah to be used.

the only thing i can imagine on hearing the Isiah is practicing with the safeties is that the new Cardinal base defense is a 3-3-5, with three safeties in the "5"

 

[kerouac9]

what is diff for Collins? calling the D? was he a OLB in college? ( i know some draft stuff had him projected as a 4-3 SAM)

I've posted this before, but here's the Football Outsiders' pre-draft breakdown on Collins and in most of the plays he's on the outside: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/draft-film-room/2021/futures-tulsa-lb-zaven-collins

The problem with all of these gadget players (Budda, Collins, Simmons, maybe Sanders now) is that you have to tailor so much of your defense to take advantage of what they can do well, which puts stress on everyone else.

I think Vance just wants a bunch of B- football guys.

 

[Chopper0080]

what is diff for Collins? calling the D? was he a OLB in college? ( i know some draft stuff had him projected as a 4-3 SAM)

Collins played OLB in a 3-3-5 scheme in college. Equitable to a 4-3 OLB which is why the SAM projection.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

See, you can't even quote what he said correctly. He never said he "Practiced awfully". He said he had some bad practices as an explanation, combines with 2 shoulder injuries, as to why he lost playing time last year.

It's not about the number of snaps, it's about what I saw in the snaps they did play.

I’m impressed you knew the defensive play call and when he got his assignment right on his 13 solo tackles, 12 assisted tackles, 3 passes defensed, zero sacks, zero interceptions, and 1 tackle for a loss. I don’t know why more of us didn’t see the obvious . . .

(It’s okay to admit that you’re mostly hoping he’ll be good)

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And I think to everyone's point, I don't think you saw what you think you saw. He totaled 220 snaps in the season and produced 13 solo tackles, 1 TFL, and 3 PDs. It's not like Gardeck who was super productive in his limited snaps in 2020. Collins had limited snaps and didn't produce.

I understand that you are hopeful but please recognize that there is nothing that has been demonstrated on the field so far that backs up that hope. Nothing. And that nothing is what we have to go off of if we are projecting growth. It also doesn't help that his DC wants traditional read/react ILBs and Collins was productive in college by playing OLB in a 3-3-5 base defense. So he played off-ball but did not have traditional MLB responsibilities which is what Vance is asking him to do now.

ah ya beat me to the obvious.

 

[BritCard]

I've posted this before, but here's the Football Outsiders' pre-draft breakdown on Collins and in most of the plays he's on the outside: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/draft-film-room/2021/futures-tulsa-lb-zaven-collins

The problem with all of these gadget players (Budda, Collins, Simmons, maybe Sanders now) is that you have to tailor so much of your defense to take advantage of what they can do well, which puts stress on everyone else.

I think Vance just wants a bunch of B- football guys.

Are we watching the same clips? In nearly every play he's likes up between the tackles at inside backer.

 

[kerouac9]

Are we watching the same clips? In nearly every play he's likes up between the tackles at inside backer.

In the first two plays he's on the outside of the three-LB shell. He's wearing #23. In the third one he literally comes all the way across the formation to make a tackle.

So... maybe we're not watching the same clips? Even if his alignment is sometimes fairly similar to what he did in college, his responsibilities in this style of defense are very different. You can tell because he sucked last year by his own admission and the evidence of his coaches drawing down his snaps.