Pace signed!

Chris_Sanders

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Originally posted by cheesebeef
Drinking heavily sounds like a good idea. One let me say this - I am psyched Pace is in Camp - Two - Graves makes me look smarter every day.

Actually your behavior on this thread has made you look more antagonistic each day. I am pretty sure that Skkorpion has spoken to you about this more than once.

I certainly don't like looking at a half dozen posts of shouting, and I am guessing I am not in the minority.

As far as your borderline obsession with Rod Graves...you need to let it go...seriously.
 

CardinalChris

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Originally posted by Stout
This isn't rocket science, man. Perhaps YOU need to read this again:

Up until Sunday, the Cardinals were on similar negotiating paths with both of their first-round choices, offering each of them guaranteed money of about $4.4 million . But the team's emphasis then shifted to Pace , after team officials reportedly assessed that getting him into camp was more critical, and their offer increased significantly.

Like I said, it's not that difficult. Pace was offered more and Bryant's offer didn't go up. 'Nough said.

Pace's offer went up when Johnson hadn't signed yet. Sounds like his agent drug his feet. They had comparable offers, nobody signed. Where does it say Pace's offer was always larger than Johnson?

They have x amount of money to spend. If you are the last guy to sign, the other signings have dictated your rokkie cap number. Not hard to figure out.

BTW, you really should calm down. It is just a message board and it isn't rocket science. My comment was simply you are filling in the gaps without knowing what the agents rejected. Neither does Pasqarelli. Take a deep breath and find some Zen!! It will be OK!!
 

Stout

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Jeff, I expected better from you. To throw in the towel and say we don't need him is utter lunacy.

Oh well, at least we got one of them in on time. Is that what all us good little fans are supposed to think? Cripes!

IF Graves can get all those bells and whistles, voidables, etc, done, then he can salvage this quickly. I mean, he'll really have to get creative. Can he? Huh. I'm from Missouri. Show me.

Meanwhile, I'll be a little more emotionally upset if we can't manage to sign our first round pick. I'll be a little more upset than saying, 'ah, screw it, we have a ton of WR already. We really don't need him anyway.' But that's just me.
 

Shane

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Originally posted by Stout
Always a good idea to try and give the lower-drafted player a better deal and FORCE the higher-drafted player to swallow a worse deal. Great negotiating tool :thumbup: Maybe that's why we have problems signing picks?

Chiming in late here but this is a complete BS statement!

Johnson can most certainly get a better deal and more money. So saying that they are trying to make him swallow a worse deal is just plain false!
 

LVCARDFREAK

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Originally posted by nidan
No I think you are wrong here.It seems from what little we know that theyt were both offered similar deal. But it seems that from then Pace's agent started negotiating to close the deal and BJ's was to slow or less pro-active.

This was probably also related to needed Pace in camp faster than BJ.

I still see few problems with getting BJ signed other than his agent is pissed. But when you screw up it is commomn to blame the other folks as it can't have been your fault and it seems that is what BJ's agent is doing

Nidan,
Please quit posting this! It is completly untrue-you have no idea! The article doesnt say that Johnsons agent was less'pro-active'. that is completly not true and you have no idea at all! What we know is from the article and from that, we gather that Pace was signed because he was offered more money and Johnson is still negotiating but is pissed since this leaves little rookie pool to work with and Johnsons was picked ahead of Pace.

Please quit telling half-truths!
 

ajcardfan

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Originally posted by JeffGollin

To be quite honest - looking at the WR crop we alrady have in camp right now, I am not sobbing my heart out over Johnson. I think the team is going to be OK with or without him.

If that's true, we wasted a pick. This team, or any other for that matter, can't afford to blow a first round pick.
 

Stout

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Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
How about we base things on when Bryant Johnson is signed. It was expected he would be in by next week, which would put him in before the first preseason game.

If he isn't, then I will be pretty upset. I can actually see both sides of the arguement. By the same token though, if he signs in a reasonable amount of time...then all this attitude will be nothing but blustering and overreaction.

Okay. Like I said to Tango earlier. If he's signed in the next few days, I can let bygones be bygones and be glad he's here. Otherwise, we screwed the pooch.
 

Sandan

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Nobody is saying we don't need him, we do.

We just need Pace more right now
 

Cheesebeef

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Originally posted by nidan
No I think you are wrong here.It seems from what little we know that theyt were both offered similar deal. But it seems that from then Pace's agent started negotiating to close the deal and BJ's was to slow or less pro-active.

Right - Pace's agent said hey Graves give us more and money and we'll sign and Graves - OKAY! Nidan - are you just making sh*t up here? How do you know BJ's was slow or less pro-active. The article, which is all we have to go on, says Graves had decided that Pace was more important and upped the offer - OF COURSE THE AGENT'S GONNA WORK MORE WITH SOMEONE WHO UPS THE OFFER! Wholy Good Lord Man!

Simpsons quote: Isn't proactive a word dumb use to make themselves sound smart? I'm fired aren't I?
 

Chris_Sanders

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If I may interject another line of thinking here.

What if it became crystal clear to the Cardinals that Johnson was going to be a lengthy holdout. That they simply could not come to terms.

Do you keep Pace's negotiations on hold until you can come to terms with Johnson or do you come hard after Pace?

I am wondering if this is what happened with the Cardinals.

I am not validating or endorsing the idea of just giving up on Johnson...just demonstrating that I don't have enough information based on one article to truely criticize or endorse the Cardinals negotiating with the two rookies at this point.
 

Cheesebeef

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Originally posted by ajcardfan
If that's true, we wasted a pick. This team, or any other for that matter, can't afford to blow a first round pick.

no than we wasted a high 1st round pick AND a fourth round pick. Now that's good trade to get a guy who was deemed a second or third rounder! YAHOO!
 

Sandan

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Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
Please quit telling half-truths!

If you read my post you will see it says "I think", this indicates it is my opinion. My opinion cannot be a half-truth unless somebody else attributes a comment to me.

It's my opinion, not yours.
 

Stout

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Originally posted by CardinalChris
Pace's offer went up when Johnson hadn't signed yet. Sounds like his agent drug his feet. They had comparable offers, nobody signed. Where does it say Pace's offer was always larger than Johnson?

Did I say the offer was always larger than Johnson's? Did I? I said they upped Pace's offer but not Johnson's. They did.

Once again, But the team's emphasis then shifted to Pace, after team officials reportedly assessed that getting him into camp was more critical, and their offer increased significantly.

How can this be Johnson's agent dragging his feet? How? Are you immune to logic? Johnson's agent wasn't OFFERED this deal, so how can he be dragging his feet on a deal that he WASN'T OFFERED?

Oh and another tidbit, Even when they succeed in reaching an agreement, it seems, the Cardinals still manage to bobble the ball.
 

Alan

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Give me a break, guys. The Cardinals have been in serious negotiations with both players. They had a pretty good idea what the contracts would be for both players. They wouldn't sign Pace if it would prevent them from signing Johnson.
 

Shane

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Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
If I may interject another line of thinking here.

What if it became crystal clear to the Cardinals that Johnson was going to be a lengthy holdout. That they simply could not come to terms.

Do you keep Pace's negotiations on hold until you can come to terms with Johnson or do you come hard after Pace?

I am wondering if this is what happened with the Cardinals.

I am not validating or endorsing the idea of just giving up on Johnson...just demonstrating that I don't have enough information based on one article to truely criticize or endorse the Cardinals negotiating with the two rookies at this point.


VERY GOOD POST! That is a huge line of thought too becuase that is highly possible!
 

LVCARDFREAK

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Originally posted by nidan
If you read my post you will see it says "I think", this indicates it is my opinion. My opinion cannot be a half-truth unless somebody else attributes a comment to me.

It's my opinion, not yours.


Yes but it is still untrue! You are making it seem like JOhsnons agent 'drug his feet'. and yet, he didint. Pace was offered more money and took it. It really is quite simple....

Why was he offered more money? Perhaps they feel like they needed him more I dont know-and neither do you! we are only speculating! I will wait to see what happens with Johnsons,,but it doesnt look good for a quick signing!
 

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This makes it offical!!

Cardinals | Pace Agrees to 5-year Deal - from www.KFFL.com
Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:32:25 -0700

ESPN.com's Len Pasquarelli reports the Arizona Cardinals have agreed to terms with rookie DE Calvin Pace, one of the team's first-round selections, on a five-year deal. The deal is worth about $8 million and could go as high as $11 million if he reaches certain escalators within the contract. The two-tier signing bonus is worth a little more than $5 million. His salary cap hit for the upcoming season will be $1.275 million.
 

Sandan

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The hysteria level is rising again folks.

We just got a 1st round pick signed and now you aare out hunting for the next thing to slam RG with.

When we sign BJ, you will find something else to bitch about, I really don't understand why folks think this is a big deal.

We know nothing yet about the state of negotiations with BJ. They could be good/bad or disasterous now, the could have been good/bad or disasterous before. We don't know.

We do know that we have a 1st round pick in camp.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Originally posted by Stout
Uh, you don't have that quite right. Arizona was NOT offering the same deal to both players. They HAD been, then, to quote the article by Pas, their offer increased significantly-to Pace, that is.

So, Pace didn't take that deal. NEITHER of them would sign the deal, they offered pace MORE, THEN he signed. In essence, they basically told Johnson's agent that Pace is worth more than he is. Stupid. Good that they got one into camp, but stupid.

thank goodness we signed pace (see, starting with a positive).

stout's right.

thank goodness we signed pace (see, ending with a positive).
 

Stout

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Originally posted by Shane H
Chiming in late here but this is a complete BS statement!

Johnson can most certainly get a better deal and more money. So saying that they are trying to make him swallow a worse deal is just plain false!

I'm not saying he won't get a better deal, man. Sorry if I sounded like that, but I've been reacting to the blind faith the fans here seem to have in Rod Graves.

It's possible he'll get a better deal, but Graves will have to become a cap genius and negotiate a deal with about 50 times more incentives than we've ever offered. Do you seriously think he will? I hope so, but I'm not so sure.
 

Cheesebeef

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Originally posted by Alan
Give me a break, guys. The Cardinals have been in serious negotiations with both players. They had a pretty good idea what the contracts would be for both players. They wouldn't sign Pace if it would prevent them from signing Johnson.

Right - Alan, I forgot how our bislerting track record at getting guys in on time shouldn't be something that instantly clicks in our minds right now. Those who dismiss history are doomed to repeat it.

Now some of you guys have said Graves is not stupid. I don't know about his mental capabilities - but you guys seem to think that just because he has a job as an NFL GM, that means he has to be qualified - right? A little news guys - some people SUCK AT THEIR JOBS! Sadly, so far, what I've seen from Graves, I'm inclined to say he sucks at his. I hope he proves me wrong.
 

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By the way, for the record I want it pointed out that I didn't want to draft a WR in the 1st round...:wave:
 

Stout

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Originally posted by Alan
Give me a break, guys. The Cardinals have been in serious negotiations with both players. They had a pretty good idea what the contracts would be for both players. They wouldn't sign Pace if it would prevent them from signing Johnson.

Wouldn't they? From the sounds of it, they decided Pace was their priority. It is possible that they either faced a lengthy holdout by both players or getting one in and trying to lowball the other.

I'm not saying this is the case. I'm just worried that it is.
 
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