Pacers @ Suns 1-19-16

[BC867]

Its funny, you want a tough minded coach who coaches in fear of player feelings. Can't have it both ways.

That's not what I want.

I want a Head Coach who is not afraid to decide on the best combination of starters, rotation backups and strength in reserve. And let them build chemistry throughout, the season.

And a GM who knows better than to bring in (again and again) two (or even three) players all of whom are small Guards who expect to be "The Man", putting the Coach (and an indecisive one at that) in a tough position.

I see those two goals as very consistent. A Head Coach who takes charge of a balanced roster. With all the comparisons to the Spurs, isn't that what has made them what they are?

 

[Phrazbit]

That's not what I want.

I want a Head Coach who is not afraid to decide on the best combination of starters, rotation backups and strength in reserve. And let them build chemistry throughout, the season.

And a GM who knows better than to bring in (again and again) two (or even three) players all of whom are small Guards who expect to be "The Man", putting the Coach (and an indecisive one at that) in a tough position.

I see those two goals as very consistent. A Head Coach who takes charge of a balanced roster. With all the comparisons to the Spurs, isn't that what has made them what they are?

The Spurs dealt with Parker's growing pains, they've consistently played "small" guards at both positions, Manu's role has fluctuated. Last year their starters, especially in the front court, were constantly in flux. They even oft feature rotations where a 6'7" guy is playing power forward. Boris Diaw plays a huge chunk of their center minutes.

Basically, they defile the majority of your key points.

 

[JCSunsfan]

That's not what I want.

I want a Head Coach who is not afraid to decide on the best combination of starters, rotation backups and strength in reserve. And let them build chemistry throughout, the season.

And a GM who knows better than to bring in (again and again) two (or even three) players all of whom are small Guards who expect to be "The Man", putting the Coach (and an indecisive one at that) in a tough position.

I see those two goals as very consistent. A Head Coach who takes charge of a balanced roster. With all the comparisons to the Spurs, isn't that what has made them what they are?

I don't want that. I want a coach who will take advantage of a tanking season to experiment with player combinations to see what works and what does not.

Your goals are constantly moving. You used to complain about the center and pf position on the team because the players were too small. Now you are complaining about the guards. You have consistently complained about Horny being too nice (referring back to the Cotton's paperboy comment, which was about Horny's youthful appearance at the time and nothng else), and then complain that he is making players angry by benching them.

Sorry, can't wriggle out of this one.

 

[sunsfan88]

I don't want that. I want a coach who will take advantage of a tanking season to experiment with player combinations to see what works and what does not.

Your goals are constantly moving. You used to complain about the center and pf position on the team because the players were too small. Now you are complaining about the guards. You have consistently complained about Horny being too nice (referring back to the Cotton's paperboy comment, which was about Horny's youthful appearance at the time and nothng else), and then complain that he is making players angry by benching them.

Sorry, can't wriggle out of this one.

Hornacek isn't playing the young players or experimenting with the Len-Chandler front court because he's trying to be creative or something. He's doing it because of the injuries and he has no choice.

If Ronnie Price was healthy, even he would see more minutes than Goodwin. If Bledsoe and Knight were healthy, he'd play Knight over Booker rather than playing Bledsoe and Booker together. Hell if Price and Knight were both healthy, they may be the starting backcourt (and this has been true several times this season). If Leuer was healthy, then he would be the starter over Len. Same if Kieff was active.

Don't try to come up with crap as if Hornacek is now trying to develop young talent or something. He's forced to playing the young talent because their ones that are healthy right now.

 

[Catlover]

Hornacek isn't playing the young players or experimenting with the Len-Chandler front court because he's trying to be creative or something. He's doing it because of the injuries and he has no choice.

If Ronnie Price was healthy, even he would see more minutes than Goodwin. If Bledsoe and Knight were healthy, he'd play Knight over Booker rather than playing Bledsoe and Booker together. Hell if Price and Knight were both healthy, they may be the starting backcourt (and this has been true several times this season). If Leuer was healthy, then he would be the starter over Len. Same if Kieff was active.

Don't try to come up with crap as if Hornacek is now trying to develop young talent or something. He's forced to playing the young talent because their ones that are healthy right now.

Jeff (or perhaps it was second hand from Ryan) said before the season that he might try the two center lineup and he has in fact used it prior to the last couple games albeit not as starters or for long stretches. You're also ignoring the fact that Hornacek was operating under a "make the playoffs or else" mandate, the apparent lifting of which has since freed his hands.

But as you've said, much of the minutes distribution of late is due to injury and not a coaching choice. However, let's not make act like it's been a huge success. It's not like we're all of a sudden a good team or anything. Injuries have created a huge opportunity for Archie and he seems to be benefitting from the minutes. But while I'm sure we're all still hopeful, his performance so far has done little to answer the big questions about his NBA future.

 

[sunsfan88]

Jeff (or perhaps it was second hand from Ryan) said before the season that he might try the two center lineup and he has in fact used it prior to the last couple games albeit not as starters or for long stretches. You're also ignoring the fact that Hornacek was operating under a "make the playoffs or else" mandate, the apparent lifting of which has since freed his hands.

But as you've said, much of the minutes distribution of late is due to injury and not a coaching choice. However, let's not make act like it's been a huge success. It's not like we're all of a sudden a good team or anything. Injuries have created a huge opportunity for Archie and he seems to be benefitting from the minutes. But while I'm sure we're all still hopeful, his performance so far has done little to answer the big questions about his NBA future.

It's not a huge team win/loss record success but it's a success in terms of developing these players and seeing what they can bring to the table. Even if Archie fails, I want to see him fail in minutes given to him, I don't want to guess that he's a failure without him hardly getting any minutes.

And you'll be hard pressed to find one Suns fan who found the Suns with Knight and Leuer starting more entertaining than Goodwin and Len starting. I'd say more fans are starting to actually watch games since Goodwin and Len became starter and it's not because they think the Suns are suddenly gonna win a lot more games but it's fun watching these kids develop and their easier to root for than guys like Knight, Price and Leuer.

 

[Catlover]

It's not a huge team win/loss record success but it's a success in terms of developing these players and seeing what they can bring to the table. Even if Archie fails, I want to see him fail in minutes given to him, I don't want to guess that he's a failure without him hardly getting any minutes.

And you'll be hard pressed to find one Suns fan who found the Suns with Knight and Leuer starting more entertaining than Goodwin and Len starting. I'd say more fans are starting to actually watch games since Goodwin and Len became starter and it's not because they think the Suns are suddenly gonna win a lot more games but it's fun watching these kids develop and their easier to root for than guys like Knight, Price and Leuer.

I think you're wrong about the influx of viewers but I agree with everything else here. We need to know what we have in Goodwin, Len and even Warren. They need their minutes and nothing should be more important than developing them this season.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's not a huge team win/loss record success but it's a success in terms of developing these players and seeing what they can bring to the table. Even if Archie fails, I want to see him fail in minutes given to him, I don't want to guess that he's a failure without him hardly getting any minutes.

This is spot on.

The Suns need to find out who on the roster is worth keeping and whether they have a future role with the team.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Hornacek isn't playing the young players or experimenting with the Len-Chandler front court because he's trying to be creative or something. He's doing it because of the injuries and he has no choice.

If Ronnie Price was healthy, even he would see more minutes than Goodwin. If Bledsoe and Knight were healthy, he'd play Knight over Booker rather than playing Bledsoe and Booker together. Hell if Price and Knight were both healthy, they may be the starting backcourt (and this has been true several times this season). If Leuer was healthy, then he would be the starter over Len. Same if Kieff was active.

Don't try to come up with crap as if Hornacek is now trying to develop young talent or something. He's forced to playing the young talent because their ones that are healthy right now.

That's if you believe all of these injuries are real. I don't. If we were competing for a playoff spot, most of these guys would be playing. Horny is trying to develop young talent. That is just a fact.

 

[BC867]

That's if you believe all of these injuries are real. I don't. If we were competing for a playoff spot, most of these guys would be playing. Horny is trying to develop young talent. That is just a fact.

It is difficult to believe that NBA players (especially on a bad team) would fake injury so the team could give others their playing time.

 

[BC867]

Your goals are constantly moving. You used to complain about the center and pf position on the team because the players were too small. Now you are complaining about the guards.

And the bottom line of what you just said is that all 5 positions on the court should be planned and used properly for balance.

Since when is it either the Guards/Wings or the Forwards/Centers?

A partially dysfunctional team is a dysfunctional team, whether in the front court or the backcourt. Or both.

For goodness sake, look at what the Suns have become. Are any of us satisfied with it?

 

[sunsfan88]

That's if you believe all of these injuries are real. I don't. If we were competing for a playoff spot, most of these guys would be playing. Horny is trying to develop young talent. That is just a fact.

BC sums it up well below. You think players who are looking at each and every way to build their resume for their next contract or for the next endorsement deal is gonna try and play games with faking injuries so others can get playing time? No.

And btw, so Hornacek has to create fake injuries to give young players playing time? He doesn't have the balls to just say "Hey Ronnie Price, your benched, Goodwin and Booker will be ahead of you in the rotation for the foreseeable future!"?

If a coach has to come up with fake injuries to allocate playing time then that's even WORSE.

It is difficult to believe that NBA players (especially on a bad team) would fake injury so the team could give others their playing time.

 

[Catlover]

BC sums it up well below. You think players who are looking at each and every way to build their resume for their next contract or for the next endorsement deal is gonna try and play games with faking injuries so others can get playing time? No.

And btw, so Hornacek has to create fake injuries to give young players playing time? He doesn't have the balls to just say "Hey Ronnie Price, your benched, Goodwin and Booker will be ahead of you in the rotation for the foreseeable future!"?

If a coach has to come up with fake injuries to allocate playing time then that's even WORSE.

It's just a guess but I think the players that have missed games were legitimately injured with the possible exception of Markieff and he's already back doing damage (to the wrong team). But it is quite possible that a player capable of playing is still held out due to injury. Someone like Knight for example could perhaps be ready to play but not at 100%.

If you watched tonight's game for example Eddie talked about the fact that at this stage of the season every player is hurt and that Len needs to toughen up and play through the pain. And he was talking about an injury that's already cost Len some games. That could easily be what's going on with Knight.

I think most starters would rather take a few games off then play at less than full strength if they know their coach is going to keep their minutes down anyway. Especially if they are given a green light to make that decision. If Jeff had decided it was time to see more of Archie and Booker, Knight might have jumped at the chance to rest his sore groin and tender ankle.

 

[Phrazbit]

It is difficult to believe that NBA players (especially on a bad team) would fake injury so the team could give others their playing time.

What happens is a guy has an ankle that is sore, that he can play through, like Knight does, and instead of them playing at about 80-90% the team has them "rest" it for a whole stinking month. Other than Bledsoe pretty much all these guys have been out with non-specific injuries. No sprains, no tears, no breaks. Its all just "sore", I expect about half the players in the league have something that is "sore" at this point in the season, but only the guys on tanking teams sit out for weeks at a time with these types of boo boos. Just watch, once Knight comes back no doubt Chandler will take some time off to "rest" some part of his body.

It happens all the time in every season when a team has decided to throw in the towel.