Palmer to Cardinals rumors heating up to a boil...

CardsSunsDbacks

Not So Skeptical
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Posts
10,190
Reaction score
6,664
I am completely OK with giving up a conditional pick. The better he plays the better the pick. Then if we did give up a 2nd or 3rd round pick it will be because he played well for us and thus we probably played well as a team.
 

Shane

Comin for you!
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
69,480
Reaction score
40,104
Location
Las Vegas
I am completely OK with giving up a conditional pick. The better he plays the better the pick. Then if we did give up a 2nd or 3rd round pick it will be because he played well for us and thus we probably played well as a team.

His stats for the Raiders last year were good if you just look at it on paper. Likely good enough that it would cause our team to give up a much higher draft pick and hit decent escalators if he did the same here. Yet the Raiders were still awful.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
92,214
Reaction score
70,497
here's the way I look at our situation. Palmer's fools gold and the rest of our QBs are a turd sandwich. neither of which makes me very hopeful.
 

JeffGollin

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
20,472
Reaction score
3,056
Location
Holmdel, NJ
I am completely OK with giving up a conditional pick. The better he plays the better the pick. Then if we did give up a 2nd or 3rd round pick it will be because he played well for us and thus we probably played well as a team.
It comes down to the nut-cutting - From a State of the Franchise standpoint, is it worth a 2nd or 3rd down pick to get us into the playoffs this season?
 

PJ1

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 21, 2002
Posts
12,278
Reaction score
5,441
Location
Nashville TN.
It comes down to the nut-cutting - From a State of the Franchise standpoint, is it worth a 2nd or 3rd down pick to get us into the playoffs this season?

Palmer may make this team bearable to watch but no way he gets us in the playoffs.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,888
Reaction score
16,709
It comes down to the nut-cutting - From a State of the Franchise standpoint, is it worth a 2nd or 3rd down pick to get us into the playoffs this season?

Probably, but when you consider that there's good reason to view the playoffs as a pipe dream even with a great quarterback and add in the fact that Palmer hasn't been anywhere close to this level in a very long time, a 2nd or a 3rd starts to sound like throwing good money down the drain.

Steve
 

desertdawg

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Posts
21,831
Reaction score
1
Location
@Desertdawg777
The best case scenario for the Cardinals?

Might be that Palmer goes to Tampa Bay and the Cardinals can arrange a trade for Josh Freeman. I think Freeman can be a real star in this league with the right tutelage.
I would really dig me some Freeman, but I don't see it happening amigo. I think we plan on "Stantoning pat", standing tall during each loss and calling it growing.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
119,436
Reaction score
59,999
It comes down to the nut-cutting - From a State of the Franchise standpoint, is it worth a 2nd or 3rd down pick to get us into the playoffs this season?

I think it is worth it if the Cardinals can find a QB to groom for the long term during this year's draft, especially if the pick could be made conditional and for the 2014 draft.
 

Arizona's Finest

Your My Favorite Mistake
Joined
Jun 11, 2005
Posts
9,709
Reaction score
1
The best case scenario for the Cardinals?

Might be that Palmer goes to Tampa Bay and the Cardinals can arrange a trade for Josh Freeman. I think Freeman can be a real star in this league with the right tutelage.

Agree with this. I think Freeman is more available then people realize and I think he is a pretty good young QB.
 

Arizona's Finest

Your My Favorite Mistake
Joined
Jun 11, 2005
Posts
9,709
Reaction score
1
I would really dig me some Freeman, but I don't see it happening amigo. I think we plan on "Stantoning pat", standing tall during each loss and calling it growing.

Schiano doesnt believe and he runs that ship. I wouldnt be shocked to see him traded this offseason in the least
 

SissyBoyFloyd

Pawnee, Skidi Clan
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Posts
5,077
Reaction score
2,384
Location
Mesa, AZ
For God's sake, lets quit playing roulette with these cheap QBs. It is like we are always trying to sneak something in the back door that no smart team would let walk in the front door. Just go ahead and draft Geno or Barkley if you still think we need a franchise Qb. At least then you are giving it a decent try, plus it only costs you a draft pick not tens of millions of wasted dollars.
 

gmabel830

It's football season!!
Joined
May 8, 2011
Posts
13,028
Reaction score
8,123
Location
Gilbert, Arizona
here's the way I look at our situation. Palmer's fools gold and the rest of our QBs are a turd sandwich. neither of which makes me very hopeful.

So what do you hope that we do? Get Palmer? Eat our current turd sandwich? Draft one of the flawed rookie QB's early? We all knew there wouldn't be a magic bullet out there this offseason. Was there ever a better option in the short term other than getting Palmer?
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,888
Reaction score
16,709
So what do you hope that we do? Get Palmer? Eat our current turd sandwich? Draft one of the flawed rookie QB's early? We all knew there wouldn't be a magic bullet out there this offseason. Was there ever a better option in the short term other than getting Palmer?

I think I speak for ever Cards fan in the galaxy except for maybe a few supporters that are still stuck on earth. It's fine to bring in Palmer - one joke of a QB is as good as another. But, throwing away valuable picks in the process should be avoided at all costs.

Steve
 

Capt'nCard

Veteran
Joined
Mar 14, 2004
Posts
151
Reaction score
0
Location
Tempe
Palmer is a waste of time at this juncture. The Cards are not a playoff contender this or next season. I'm not for bringing a QB who if they even had a prime to speak of, they're past it. And stop with this Warner nonsense because Kurt was an anomaly. Just like him being the only QB to come out of the AFL to have a spectacular career in the NFL. He's the exception to the rule. Palmer is beat up, used up, and quite frankly, doesn't need to come here. For years we've put up with the Jeff Blake's, Kent Graham's, Dave Brown's and Gary Hogaboom's and some of you want to bring this guy in? I say, drop the idea, go with what we have, and hopefully something good comes out of next year's draft. Let's try to build a team for once like SF has done.

I agree with much of what you said, however battered and beaten as he may be, hes still better than anyone on the roster now. I don't think the Cards are contending anytime soon but I want them to at least compete in '13. With Palmer under center, I would feel more confident they will have a fighting chance. I cant stand the thought of watching another season like '12.
 

gmabel830

It's football season!!
Joined
May 8, 2011
Posts
13,028
Reaction score
8,123
Location
Gilbert, Arizona
I think I speak for ever Cards fan in the galaxy except for maybe a few supporters that are still stuck on earth. It's fine to bring in Palmer - one joke of a QB is as good as another. But, throwing away valuable picks in the process should be avoided at all costs.

Steve

I certainly don't believe Palmer is the long-term answer at QB, but I'll believe he is a joke when he is completely ineffective with Larry Fitzgerald on the same team and field. With all due respect to Ocho, Larry Fitzgerald would be far and away the most talent WR that Carson has ever had the chance to work with.
 

gmabel830

It's football season!!
Joined
May 8, 2011
Posts
13,028
Reaction score
8,123
Location
Gilbert, Arizona
For God's sake, lets quit playing roulette with these cheap QBs. It is like we are always trying to sneak something in the back door that no smart team would let walk in the front door. Just go ahead and draft Geno or Barkley if you still think we need a franchise Qb. At least then you are giving it a decent try, plus it only costs you a draft pick not tens of millions of wasted dollars.

I completely disagree with all of this...

First off, who is advocating spending/wasting (depending on your perspective) tens of millions of dollars on Palmer? The goal is to get the possible possible option in the short term without hamstringing the team's chances to acquire the long term answer at QB. So maybe we pay Palmer say $7-20m over 1-3 years without getting locked into dead cap money if it doesn't work out and the opportunity for Palmer to earn more if he comes in and is actually successful, but that's not outrageous to pay for a QB.

Also, we'll see what happens in the draft and a team could still take a QB early, but to me and others the Eagles committing to Vick, the Bills committing to Kolb, the Raiders committing to Flynn, and the Cards potentially committing to Palmer is an indication that no one thinks there is a franchise changing QB available in the draft. One could still take a bite of the apple come draft day, but I think it is looking more and more unlikely.

So, that being the situation, would you rather have Carson Palmer at QB or Blaine Gabbert/Christian Ponder? Because if the team takes Geno/Barkley at #7 and they really aren't the guy, you'll end up with a Gabbert/Ponder as the guy you committed to for at least a few years.
 

CardsFan88

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 28, 2002
Posts
7,642
Reaction score
4,742
The one thing we have to realize as well is we may not be in a position to draft #1 or #2 even without Palmer.

We have a lot of talent on this team, and as bad as we were last year, we still started 4-0 with our crap line, fragile QB, and horrible backups.

Palmer has never had the WR corps we have. He throws to TE's too. A QB that can connect to TE's would have given Housler about five more touchdowns given how many times he was running wide open passed the safety.

Our line should be better this season because our rookies have experience, and we should have the chance to get at least one studly lineman in the first couple of rounds, hopefully more.

Also QB's can have bad seasons and see their stock drop. They can get injured. There were some on here proclaiming Tyler Wilson was going to be the #1 pick in 2013. Barkley was a top 10 QB last year. Even up high there are busts.

Hey Wilson's going to be drafted, so he's obviously got something, but I just am not sold on thinking we are going to tank, or thinking next year we'll definitely have a shot at a top QB.

What we know is the best option out there is Palmer. It's the best option besides the draft that has been available for the past few years. Next year the odds are you won't be able to get a 33 year old big arm QB with good numbers to come here.

I also don't fall into the camp that disaster the Raiders have been in since Al Davis went senile, and somehow after his death has gotten worse, and a few bad games where he goated out a loss is indicative of how he'll forever play. Maybe he will. But a few games in a long career doesn't mean that to me. He had very little in Oakland to work with, and would have more here in AZ then he ever had in Cincy. He did still put up decent numbers, and those numbers would have put us in the playoffs last year.

I would love Palmer to be here. Maybe I could think of tanking, but I simply can't when you have guys like Fitz, PP, CC, DWash, and a bunch of other solid guys on this team. Our QB play has been epic bad. Our line play has been epic bad. We have a chance to fix both, and I think if we do, we're poised for a nice season.

There can be three teams from a division into the playoffs, and why not the NFC w(b)est?

Alot of things need to happen. But our QB's have literally been half as effective as the next worst team since Warner retired. We didn't win 6 games, we won 18, mostly because we have significant talent that sometimes would mask our epic gap at QB and OL.

Give me Warmack, another top OL stud, and Palmer, and I feel we have a shot at the playoffs. With him and Stanton as the backup we'd be in a far better place then we've been in at QB since Warner retired. Palmer could play another 5 years if he wanted to. So he's not necessarily just a short term option. A potential medium term option too, that in the NFL 5 years is an eternity.

I also think we don't need to give up a lot, or perhaps anything to get Palmer. If he wants to start, this is the place. The Raiders don't want to pay his salary, and if they trade for Flynn the Raiders are in no position to have a high price for him. We can secure him cheaply. I think something along the lines of a 6th rounder this year, and a conditional 5th or 6th next year depending on whatever they deem appropriate, starts...wins...playoffs..whatever.

I also feel that if Arians is as good as everyone says and how he supposedly can get inside his QB's heads (in a good way) to help them diagnose the problem and fix it, coupled with the potential of our defense, Palmer won't need to press for the victory.

As much as I want the Suns to tank, it's only because it's obvious we suck hard. Getting blown out by 20 points routinely by teams with roughly the same win loss record. But it doesn't mean squat really because there's not much to draft at the top this year. The Suns tried to get guys it didn't work out, and we're sitting 4th worst record.
 
Last edited:

LoyaltyisaCurse

IF AND WHEN HEALTHY...
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Posts
53,873
Reaction score
19,669
Location
CA
Cards can win 10 games with Carson...It may still only net them 3rd place in the division, but he makes team relevant.
 

desertdawg

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Posts
21,831
Reaction score
1
Location
@Desertdawg777
The Raiders don't even want him...let me type that one again...the Raiders don't even want him. Anybody suggesting that 30+ year old QBs won't be available next year or the next is not selling the good newspapers, I think there will be plenty with the way the new arrivals are playing.

This guy will be in the thrift store in just a little while, and even then I'll bet you Arians aint interested in a antique Palmeranian that has already expressed his desire to retire when under fire. The Raiders don't even want him, and I can't believe we are this desperate, this needy as a fan base to even consider giving away fresh draft picks when we are clearly going to use the draft to rebuild, which is why we see all the one and done single year contracts. Guys like DD and Fitz would have probably already been gonzo if they didn't have their age and contracts adding up to equal un-moveable.

This team aint playing, they've decided it just straight up wasn't working, and Palmer is not the answer. And I do believe Arians has more say so than some would suggest, I remember Mikey running around saying Kolb was going to be here, the Kiemster also hinted to the same plan. Then Arians comes in and the plan seems to have changed, 2011 Colts style.
 

oaken1

Stone Cold
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
18,488
Reaction score
16,767
Location
Modesto, California
...also....even if released, the Raiders will owe Palmer substantial loot this year.....which means he can sign elsewhere for less money since Oakland will be paying him.


it is not uncommon for QB's to play until 40 it seams these days....Palmer IMO would be a decent gamble...short term...medium term...helping to mentor younger QB's....

however...the Raiders are the ones forcing the issue with Palmer....they do not want to pay him what they promised....I say, let them get someone else,.....then when they are faced with just having to release him.....offer them a 7th rounder....next season...
 

PDXChris

All In!
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 28, 2003
Posts
31,667
Reaction score
28,590
Location
Nowhere
The Raiders don't even want him...let me type that one again...the Raiders don't even want him.

It is a good thing this place does not drug test. They want him, but they do not want to pay him $13 million next season. There is a big difference.
 

desertdawg

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Posts
21,831
Reaction score
1
Location
@Desertdawg777
It is a good thing this place does not drug test. They want him, but they do not want to pay him $13 million next season. There is a big difference.
Nobody wants Palmer at 13 mill, or 10 mill, or on a long term contract either. If anyone gives up anything more than a 7th round pick, they should be tested, not me.

You can drug test me anytime, just get it analyzed quickly before the leaves start growing out of the cup all hydroponic style.
 
Top