Pass rusher at 29?

[Cbus cardsfan]

Unlike in the other thread where I made an argument for WR at 29, this thread goes against conventional wisdom and argues against a pass rusher at 29.

After listening to the Somer/Jurecki podcast, I think it's pretty safe to assume that Freeney will be on 2016 Cardinals. That being said, on paper, the Cards should be much improved when it comes to outside pressure this year.

Start with the obvious. Freeney and Jones are likely going to be very good at getting pressure. Golden had a pretty decent rookie year and should improve to be able to finish his pressures with sacks. Then, you have a healthy Okafor who returns to right side of the QB where he was much more effective. Shaq Riddick is a wildcard and could be a guy that jumps onto the scene and there was another LB(Fua) Somers mentioned that the Cards really like his potential.

I know Freeney is likely on his last year and you can never have enough pass rushers, however, it's going to be tough for any rookie to crack that rotation. I wouldn't pass on a guy like Spence, Floyd or Ogbah but I don't think it's a slam dunk if one of them are there that the Cards will select them.

More and more, I think 29 is going to be a CB or Kelly/Whitehair.

 

[Reddog]

If the right player is there, I wouldn't dismiss the idea of them getting Calais's replacement. He will be 30 and is making $15M. They will have to pay Jones (who just turned 26) so having him and a cheaper rookie contract makes some sense.

 

[Jim Otis]

More and more, I think 29 is going to be a CB or Kelly/Whitehair.

They are minus -5 O-Line from the 2015 roster , they signed Mathis , they are still minus -4 . We will see a blend of Coach Speak , mixed with a puff of smoke here and a couple of mirrors over there , but I think if Kelly is there at 29 , he will be the pick ,and then CB/Whitehair . Honestly I hope Kelly is the pick .

 

[WildBB]

One thing is certain this year, it's uncertainty.

 

[Goldfield]

If the right player is there, I wouldn't dismiss the idea of them getting Calais's replacement. He will be 30 and is making $15M. They will have to pay Jones (who just turned 26) so having him and a cheaper rookie contract makes some sense.

This is where I'm leaning. DE CB C hybrid safety to play ILB like Buchanan. I think it will be one of those positions.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

They are minus -5 O-Line from the 2015 roster , they signed Mathis , they are still minus -4 . We will see a blend of Coach Speak , mixed with a puff of smoke here and a couple of mirrors over there , but I think if Kelly is there at 29 , he will be the pick ,and then CB/Whitehair . Honestly I hope Kelly is the pick .

Just texted my scout buddy a bit ago and asked who he liked better, Kelly or Whitehair and he responded Kelly. I think he likes Kelly quite a bit because I sent him a list of players a while back and Kelly was his favorite on that list.

 

[overseascardfan]

Conventional wisdom would be to take a pass rusher at #29 because they are hard to come by there really isn't a position ARZ needs that can't be addressed later in the draft (CB or C).

If Ogbah or Spence are there, ARZ needs to pull the trigger. It would mean they wouldn't have to shell out $$$$$ for Freeney on an incentive based 1 year deal because they will have a long term solution that will team with Jones & Golden to provide a much improved YOUNG pass rush.

I hope ARZ does not take a guy like TJ Green whom there has been buzz ARZ is interested in. The guy may run a 4.3 40 but he only has 1 year of starting experience under his belt, in his 3 year career only had 3 PBU's and 1 INT, not exactly numbers that demonstrate coverage ability. He is a highlight reel tackler but was credited with 17 missed or broken tackles last year because he is always looking to blown someone up instead of wrapping them up.

 

[Cardiac]

Unlike in the other thread where I made an argument for WR at 29, this thread goes against conventional wisdom and argues against a pass rusher at 29.

After listening to the Somer/Jurecki podcast, I think it's pretty safe to assume that Freeney will be on 2016 Cardinals. That being said, on paper, the Cards should be much improved when it comes to outside pressure this year.

Start with the obvious. Freeney and Jones are likely going to be very good at getting pressure. Golden had a pretty decent rookie year and should improve to be able to finish his pressures with sacks. Then, you have a healthy Okafor who returns to right side of the QB where he was much more effective. Shaq Riddick is a wildcard and could be a guy that jumps onto the scene and there was another LB(Fua) Somers mentioned that the Cards really like his potential.

I know Freeney is likely on his last year and you can never have enough pass rushers, however, it's going to be tough for any rookie to crack that rotation. I wouldn't pass on a guy like Spence, Floyd or Ogbah but I don't think it's a slam dunk if one of them are there that the Cards will select them.

More and more, I think 29 is going to be a CB or Kelly/Whitehair.

I pretty much agree with your thoughts here. I do want a DE/DT that can rush the passer in this draft and hopefully earlier than later. The CB position also makes me a bit nervous. Then C and more Oline depth.

 

[oaken1]

Unlike in the other thread where I made an argument for WR at 29, this thread goes against conventional wisdom and argues against a pass rusher at 29.

After listening to the Somer/Jurecki podcast, I think it's pretty safe to assume that Freeney will be on 2016 Cardinals. That being said, on paper, the Cards should be much improved when it comes to outside pressure this year.

Start with the obvious. Freeney and Jones are likely going to be very good at getting pressure. Golden had a pretty decent rookie year and should improve to be able to finish his pressures with sacks. Then, you have a healthy Okafor who returns to right side of the QB where he was much more effective. Shaq Riddick is a wildcard and could be a guy that jumps onto the scene and there was another LB(Fua) Somers mentioned that the Cards really like his potential.

I know Freeney is likely on his last year and you can never have enough pass rushers, however, it's going to be tough for any rookie to crack that rotation. I wouldn't pass on a guy like Spence, Floyd or Ogbah but I don't think it's a slam dunk if one of them are there that the Cards will select them.

More and more, I think 29 is going to be a CB or Kelly/Whitehair.

all those backers are awesome...but without some push inside to force the o-line to tighten up....they will not make much more difference than last year.

Nose Tackle.... Big,.... strong,....quick.....

it will help the run defense as well as the pass defense.....

we are fortunate...in this draft there are two....and the one who fits our 3-4 the best will probably be available when we pick at 29.

centers and/or guards who can start will likely still be on the board in round three.... not much after that,...but in round three,...yes.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Do we ever do the obvious? I mean if "our" center is there for us in R1, do you really think we take him? My money is on "No". We will get a surprise pick in a CB, DE, or DT, and it will probably not be who is on the top of most boards at the time. Half of us will be swearing and ranting on about why? and how could we pass on ? etc. etc. etc. Then in a few days after listening to coach and Gm explain the pick and describe the player, we will all be happy with the pick and anxious to see him in a Cards uniform.

Isn't that the way it always goes?

 

[oaken1]

Do we ever do the obvious? I mean if "our" center is there for us in R1, do you really think we take him? My money is on "No". We will get a surprise pick in a CB, DE, or DT, and it will probably not be who is on the top of most boards at the time. Half of us will be swearing and ranting on about why? and how could we pass on ? etc. etc. etc. Then in a few days after listening to coach and Gm explain the pick and describe the player, we will all be happy with the pick and anxious to see him in a Cards uniform.

Isn't that the way it always goes?

it has the past two years....and the first guy has been traded away while the second guy never put on a hat all season...

BA needs to get his crap together and call me on draft day

 

[Cardiac]

all those backers are awesome...but without some push inside to force the o-line to tighten up....they will not make much more difference than last year.

Nose Tackle.... Big,.... strong,....quick.....

it will help the run defense as well as the pass defense.....

we are fortunate...in this draft there are two....and the one who fits our 3-4 the best will probably be available when we pick at 29.

centers and/or guards who can start will likely still be on the board in round three.... not much after that,...but in round three,...yes.

I agree, who are your two NT's that will be available at 29.

I think Butler would be a good choice and I can't get Clark off my mind.

 

[oaken1]

I agree, who are your two NT's that will be available at 29.

I think Butler would be a good choice and I can't get Clark off my mind.

I think Reed will go first since he has the most hype even though he is a bit one dimensional....

Robinson and Butler fit our scheme really well....with Robinson lacking some motivation and love of the game that puts Vernon Butler as my top choice....

I like Kenny Clark... he is a bit squat,...which can be good for a NT....I would not be disappointed if Clark was the choice...but Butler is slightly taller and has longer arms...which gives him the edge in my mind.

if we continue down this path in which most nfl centers or guards can block our NT on their own...bringing in high profile edge rushers is just going to be a waste of time

 

[pinetopred]

I think Reed will go first since he has the most hype even though he is a bit one dimensional....

Robinson and Butler fit our scheme really well....with Robinson lacking some motivation and love of the game that puts Vernon Butler as my top choice....

I like Kenny Clark... he is a bit squat,...which can be good for a NT....I would not be disappointed if Clark was the choice...but Butler is slightly taller and has longer arms...which gives him the edge in my mind.

if we continue down this path in which most nfl centers or guards can block our NT on their own...bringing in high profile edge rushers is just going to be a waste of time

Yep

 

[Mitch]

DT/DE Chris Jones, Mississippi St. Major talent. Reminds me some of Eric Swann. Inconsistent production and technique. Could be very good as a rotational DT/DE and inside pass rusher.

 

[overseascardfan]

Remember we have Corey Peters who has 11 sacks for his career. ARZ had a true NT in Dan Williams but let him go and signed Peters who is more of a pass rusher which posters on this board are asking for. Yes, he's coming off an Achilles injury but I feel he will bolster our interior line and if ARZ needs a back up there are plenty of guys who can be had in the later rounds, DJ Reader of Clemson is an intriguing prospect who has the size to man the middle. Its easier to find a NT than a guys with pass rushing ability like a Spence, Ogbah or Calhoun off the edge.

 

[GuernseyCard]

If the right player is there, I wouldn't dismiss the idea of them getting Calais's replacement. He will be 30 and is making $15M. They will have to pay Jones (who just turned 26) so having him and a cheaper rookie contract makes some sense.

CC's CAP hit is $15m.

He's making $9.5m.

I expect a new deal in the not too distant.

 

[oaken1]

Remember we have Corey Peters who has 11 sacks for his career. ARZ had a true NT in Dan Williams but let him go and signed Peters who is more of a pass rusher which posters on this board are asking for. Yes, he's coming off an Achilles injury but I feel he will bolster our interior line and if ARZ needs a back up there are plenty of guys who can be had in the later rounds, DJ Reader of Clemson is an intriguing prospect who has the size to man the middle. Its easier to find a NT than a guys with pass rushing ability like a Spence, Ogbah or Calhoun off the edge.

11 sacks for his career.....and with the exception of one preseason game here...rather mediocre play for that same career..

big dan was let go because he could not provide that internal push while also being awesome against the run. There are a few guys in this draft who can be awesome against the run....while also wreaking havoc in the middle, collapsing pockets,...and providing 5-7 sacks per season.

when you have that type of guy in the middle the o-line has to tighten up...which leaves the OT on an island against the DE and/or OLB..... OT's on an island is how sacks are made.
When the center can block the NT on his own,...that puts the guards on the DE's, or occasionally a guard and tackle on a DE...and it frees up the TE, as well as allowing the RB to chip/assist with the major rushing threat. a weak defensive interior allows max protect without keeping the TE's out of the passing patterns.
Peters is a decent DT,...but he is in no way whatsoever a premier NT

 

[Reddog]

CC's CAP hit is $15m.

He's making $9.5m.

I expect a new deal in the not too distant.

I thought this too but not as sure anymore. You cant pay Jones what he will require and Calais another big deal that takes him to 34 or 35 years old. Calais will command more than he is worth right now because the position has proven to get those deals this past FA period.

 

[Cardiac]

I think Reed will go first since he has the most hype even though he is a bit one dimensional....

Robinson and Butler fit our scheme really well....with Robinson lacking some motivation and love of the game that puts Vernon Butler as my top choice....

I like Kenny Clark... he is a bit squat,...which can be good for a NT....I would not be disappointed if Clark was the choice...but Butler is slightly taller and has longer arms...which gives him the edge in my mind.

if we continue down this path in which most nfl centers or guards can block our NT on their own...bringing in high profile edge rushers is just going to be a waste of time

I'm very much in agreement with you, I really want us to improve our pass rush from the DE/DT/NT positions. CC is good and with the addition of Chandler Jones I do feel our pass rush has been improved by a good margin. But it's not Panthers/Broncos good and that's what we need.

While I would love a NT who can collapse the pocket on any down I can settle for a DT/DE who can get inside pressure on passing downs. Betcher uses a multitude of fronts and alignments so a DT like Rankins could also work IMO.

Bottom line is I want another pass rusher added early in this draft at any position in the front 7 but would prefer it to be a D-lineman.

DT/DE Chris Jones, Mississippi St. Major talent. Reminds me some of Eric Swann. Inconsistent production and technique. Could be very good as a rotational DT/DE and inside pass rusher.

I do recall you talking him up in previous threads so I'd be good with him as well.

Feed the trenches.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I thought this too but not as sure anymore. You cant pay Jones what he will require and Calais another big deal that takes him to 34 or 35 years old. Calais will command more than he is worth right now because the position has proven to get those deals this past FA period.

No idea what is required to sign CC, nor any idea as to the length.

Do know there's nothing on this team to replace him and the CAP keeps going up.

 

[cardpa]

I would really like to see a DT who can collapse the pocket. It would mean so much to the defense.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I want a selection which will be a difference maker in years to come with that first pick and do not care what the position is as long as Keim and company get it right... Go Big Red

 

[Sunburn]

With Freeney, I think we're set on the outside. It would be nice to get some inside pressure/push.