PFT Report: GIANTS CHOP THREE

Zeno

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Is Davis worth 1/10 of the Arizona Cardinals' salary cap? Absolutely. Because Rod Graves and company have no plan to replace him with anything but hope, and hope isn't a plan, and hope doesn't protect the left edge of the offensive line.

I don't agree with K9 all the time, but he backs up what he says with facts, he doesn't jump all over every other teams garbage every time someone is cut or allowed to explore free agency. What he said above is about the most astute thing I've seen posted by anyone in a very long time.
 
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BACH

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I'm not saying that Petitgout's production wouldn't be effective in a new scheme, but it's folly to assume that his production would be improved based on a new scheme, better coaching. Isn't it more likely to think that now that he's in his 8th year, he's in decline and unable to stay healthy, and that he's outlived his usefulness to his old team? Why would he be a better option than the Pro Bowl alternate Left Tackle the Cards have?

Why is the DE limited in his moves against an LT than he would be against the DT? Where the TE plays has no bearing on anything, especially not what the quarterback's dominant hand is. Teams flip the TE to the left side all the time. Look how often Desmond Clark was positioned on the QB's blind side in the Super Bowl. Why? Because that's where the dominant pass rusher was in Dwight Freeney.

Follow this clip from where the Cards played the Packers. Look at where the TE is sitting? It's on the QB's blind side. Brett Favre is still right-handed, isn't he?

You can keep repeating that rubbish like it's true, but the fact of the matter is that the Left Tackle needs to be the best pass blocker not because it's the quarterback's blind side, but because that's where the best pass rusher comes from.

You're funny....

So, your saying that it doesn't make a difference that the TE lines up next to our LT. Yet, you're saying that Clark moved to the blindside because that helped Tait with Freeney. Which one is it?

Second, does one clip prove your point? Look at at the games... The TE lines up on the left about 90% of all plays by the end of the season.
 

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Now..if it were up to me...I would like to see the Cards give up their 2nd or 3rd round draft pick to acquire Max Starks, who becomes Leinart's blindside tackle at RT...drafting Joe Thomas at #5, if available, would be attractive in this scenario, although I still think Reggie Wells can be a solid LT...I like the way he played at RT.

And I'm happy that the football God, in his infinite wisdom, has not left it up you, Mitch. A second and a third for a guy who gave up 8.5 sacks in 16 games in 2005 and 8 in 14 games in 2006. I'm betting that Wells can do better on the right side.
 

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No, he got the guy's hands down. That was his job. Matt should have thrown the pass.


Wrong, he dived for the guys feet missed and the dude ran straight for Leinart causing a shoulder injury. That is no way on Leinart and completely on Big.
 

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You're funny....

So, your saying that it doesn't make a difference that the TE lines up next to our LT. Yet, you're saying that Clark moved to the blindside because that helped Tait with Freeney. Which one is it?

Second, does one clip prove your point? Look at at the games... The TE lines up on the left about 90% of all plays by the end of the season.

I'm saying that offense move their TE to where he's going to be most effective, not based on some arcane issue like where the blindside is. It makes a difference, but no one's dogmatic about it.

Substantiate your claim that the TE lines up on the left "about 90% of all plays by the end of the season." It's your assertion. Back it up.
 

Crazy Canuck

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Wrong, he dived for the guys feet missed and the dude ran straight for Leinart causing a shoulder injury. That is no way on Leinart and completely on Big.

Sorry, but you simply don't understand what the play was and what was called for by both Big and Leinart. K-9 does.
 

Heucrazy

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Sorry, but you simply don't understand what the play was and what was called for by both Big and Leinart. K-9 does.


If the play was called for Big to completely wiff his block and not slow down his man at all then yes K9 and you know what you're talking about.

If the play was for Big to actually take the guy out and block him in some way at all then I know what I'm talking about.

I wonder which one of us is right?
 
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BACH

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I'm saying that offense move their TE to where he's going to be most effective, not based on some arcane issue like where the blindside is. It makes a difference, but no one's dogmatic about it.

Substantiate your claim that the TE lines up on the left "about 90% of all plays by the end of the season." It's your assertion. Back it up.

And where is he most effective? On the frontside, where he usaully works as a dump-off.

You can start by watching the highlight from the Seahawks game:
http://play.rbn.com/?url=/nfl/nfl/o...includes/2006_week14_recap&rpcontextwidth=500

The TE is lined up on the left on all our offensive plays.
 

Crazy Canuck

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If the play was called for Big to completely wiff his block and not slow down his man at all then yes K9 and you know what you're talking about.

If the play was for Big to actually take the guy out and block him in some way at all then I know what I'm talking about.

I wonder which one of us is right?

We are... because Big's job on a three step drop is simply to bring the DE's arms down so that the passing lane is open. The QB's job is to quickly set and release. Leinart hesitated, possibly because no one was open, and began bailing to the right, got caught and landed awkwardly. Further, Leinart himself said that the sack was his fault.
 

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We are... because Big's job on a three step drop is simply to bring the DE's arms down so that the passing lane is open. The QB's job is to quickly set and release. Leinart hesitated, possibly because no one was open, and began bailing to the right, got caught and landed awkwardly. Further, Leinart himself said that the sack was his fault.

No, on that particular play, Davis was supposed to imped the progress of the DE. He failed in doing so, hence Leinart getting injured.
 

Heucrazy

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We are... because Big's job on a three step drop is simply to bring the DE's arms down so that the passing lane is open. The QB's job is to quickly set and release. Leinart hesitated, possibly because no one was open, and began bailing to the right, got caught and landed awkwardly. Further, Leinart himself said that the sack was his fault.


Big's only job was to bring the guy's hands down? Not to block him at all?
That makes no sense at all.

Face it, Big wiffed and Leinart payed the price.
 

kerouac9

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And where is he most effective? On the frontside, where he usaully works as a dump-off.

You can start by watching the highlight from the Seahawks game:
http://play.rbn.com/?url=/nfl/nfl/o...includes/2006_week14_recap&rpcontextwidth=500

The TE is lined up on the left on all our offensive plays.

Then look at the next game, against the 49ers. The TE doesn't switch sides when Warner, a righty, enters the game. Maybe the TE choice isn't as doctrinaire as you make it sound, huh?

In the Week 17 tape, Gates lines up off both tackles.
 

Crazy Canuck

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Big's only job was to bring the guy's hands down? Not to block him at all?
That makes no sense at all.

Face it, Big wiffed and Leinart payed the price.

With respect, don't take my word for it, speak to an O-line coach and it'll make more sense. You are isolating Big's play from Leinart's and they are in tandem on a three step drop. Big could have done a better job, no doubt, but the ball should have been out of Matt's hand. His hesitation caused the sack and he said so.
 

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Giants released : Arrington, Petitgout, Emmons

Giants | Arrington's release costs team nearly $1.5 million
Mon, 12 Feb 2007 18:48:48 -0800

Updating a previous item, Arthur Staple, of Newsday, reports the New York Giants released LB LaVar Arrington Monday, Feb. 12. Cutting Arrington saves cost the team nearly a $1.5 million hit. The team does not plan to renegotiate with him.


Giants | Petitgout saves team around $3.2 million
Mon, 12 Feb 2007 18:46:45 -0800

Updating a previous item, Arthur Staple, of Newsday, reports the New York Giants released OT Luke Petitgout Monday, Feb. 12. Cutting Petitgout saves the team around $3.2 million in cap space. The team does not plan to renegotiate with him.


Giants | Emmons saves team $1 million
Mon, 12 Feb 2007 18:44:21 -0800

Updating a previous item, Arthur Staple, of Newsday, reports the New York Giants released LB Carlos Emmons Monday, Feb. 12. Cutting Emmons saves the team $1 million in cap space.
 

daves

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Was Davis really a Pro Bowl alternate in 2006-7?

The coaches and players who vote for the pro bowl would disagree with you that Petitgout is an upgrade to Leonard Davis

I am not disputing this claim, and i do seem to recall Davis being mentioned as a potential injury replacement last year, but can someone give me a reference to where Davis is listed as a Pro Bowl Alternate for this year? I'd just like to know where i can find such info. Alternates don't seem to be listed on NFL.com unless they end up playing because of injuries or players voted ahead of them who decline to attend.

Thanks....

...dave
 

Evil Ash

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I am not disputing this claim, and i do seem to recall Davis being mentioned as a potential injury replacement last year, but can someone give me a reference to where Davis is listed as a Pro Bowl Alternate for this year? I'd just like to know where i can find such info. Alternates don't seem to be listed on NFL.com unless they end up playing because of injuries or players voted ahead of them who decline to attend.

Thanks....

...dave

Here you go

Cards face hefty decision with Davis
By Darren Urban, Tribune
December 21, 2006

It may be the biggest question the Cardinals face this offseason, and perhaps that’s fitting, since it involves “Big.” Does the team try to keep left tackle and unrestricted free-agent-to-be Leonard Davis?

With two games left in the season, there are arguments on both sides. Publicly, Davis says he doesn’t know what will happen. Vice president of football operations Rod Graves says the decision will be fleshed out after the year ends.

Davis has made the determination more difficult with improved play over the season, and the way the offensive line has jelled in the second half.

But the way both parties carefully chose their words, it sounds as if the second pick overall in the 2001 draft will have a new address in 2007.

“We had high expectations for Leonard coming into the season,” Graves said. “He is our highest-paid player and one of the highest-paid players in the NFL.

“Ever since he was drafted as the second player overall, he has been held to a higher standard. While I am excited about the fact he has been playing good football, lately, I expected Leonard to be a perennial Pro Bowl player and that obviously hasn’t happened.”

Unless the Cards use their franchise tag, the 6-foot-6, 365-pound Davis, who is a Pro Bowl second alternate but has never been selected to play in Hawaii, will enter free agency.

That was all but determined when the team was extending contracts to defensive tackle Darnell Dockett and middle linebacker Gerald Hayes while discussions never started with Davis.

“It’s kind of weird, to me, kind of like the draft all over again,” Davis said of free agency. “You are a high pick, but you don’t know where you’ll be with 32 possibilities. Now there are 31 other possibilities — besides here.”

It is Davis’ huge contract that has provided such a conundrum. Davis is making $9.17  million this season; in a weak free agent market, he will likely command a contract the Cards won’t be willing to match.

The Cardinals could designate Davis their franchise player, but if they do, he will make a salary slightly north of $11  million next season, barring a new long-term contract.

That seems unlikely, although Graves declined to comment.

“It is a short-term commitment,” Davis said. “I would rather have some stability. I don’t want to get to the end of (another) year wondering instead of just going out and playing.

“Right now, I am just trying to concentrate on playing football because that’s all I can worry about at this point in time.”

Davis will be the highest-profile tackle available in free agency and stands to get a giant payday.

It doesn’t help the Cardinals that two of the top three college tackles this season, Southern California’s Sam Baker and Michigan’s Jake Long, are juniors who have said they are staying in school.

The third, Wisconsin’s Joe Thomas, should be available when the Cards pick in the first round, although Arizona will have options with what could be a top-five choice.

Davis’ linemates, who have watched coach Dennis Green shuffle the offensive line often this season, view Davis’ potential departure — just as the line has come together — in realistic terms.

“Any time you play with a guy as long as I have played alongside Leonard, (him leaving) is not an ideal situation,” right tackle Reggie Wells said. “But we all understand it is part of the business.”

Green said Davis has been “pretty consistent” this season. Offensive line coach Steve Loney said Davis has graded out the best of all the linemen.

Loney said Davis has been coachable and downplayed Davis’ perceived lack of intensity.

“People expect smoke to come out of his ears and snot out of his nose, but that’s not his personality,” Loney said.

The Cardinals might decide it’s also not worth spending millions of dollars on him in the future.

“It’s just one of those deals,” Davis said, “where you never know where you are going to be.”

EXTRA POINTS: Davis missed a second straight practice Thursday after going home to Texas to be with his ill father.

If he cannot return by the weekend, Green said Oliver Ross will start at left tackle.…

Hayes (ribs) missed practice for a second straight day and Green isn’t sure if he will be available. Monty Beisel would start in Hayes’ place.

The only other player to miss practice Thursday was linebacker Calvin Pace (illness), who is listed as probable on the injury report.
Contact Darren Urban by email, or phone (480) 898-6525
 

ds512az

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Is that "second alternate" as in ring bearer at your brother's wedding?
 
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BACH

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Then look at the next game, against the 49ers. The TE doesn't switch sides when Warner, a righty, enters the game. Maybe the TE choice isn't as doctrinaire as you make it sound, huh?

In the Week 17 tape, Gates lines up off both tackles.

Simple answer...

I'll answer when you explain why it doesn't effect our LT to have a TE next to him BUT did help Tait with Freeney in the SB.

This is classic you, K9.

You run out of argumentation for one of my questions, so you spin the story by very aggressively chancing the subject.

You stated earlier that having a TE next to our LT wouldn't make it any easier to protect the QB. Yet while arguing that the TE can line up on both sides, you say that Clark moved to the blindside to help Tait with Freeney.

That doesn't add up...

Please make up your mind. Is a TE next to the OT a help or a non-factor? When you answer that, we can get back to the original subject AND then I'll answer this question.
 

RugbyMuffin

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In the Week 17 tape, Gates lines up off both tackles.

AT THE SAME TIME?

WOW! Talk about an all-pro.


Leonard Davis or Luke Pettigout ?

I think that is the question here. I think both are over-rated, and under achieving. Both have a lot of false starts too

BUT I think the Cardinals need to have one of the two on the squad by the start of the next season.

I think Luke Pettigout will be our man. 1st off he is a Giant and the Cardinals LOVE ex-Giants. Second, I think BIG wants out of Arizona no matter what. Third, Pettigout WANTS to play tackle, and LT at that, so he wouldn't be on Leinart's blind side. While Big WANTS to play guard.

I think BIG or Luke will give us the same results regardless of who is in there.
 

kerouac9

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Simple answer...

I'll answer when you explain why it doesn't effect our LT to have a TE next to him BUT did help Tait with Freeney in the SB.

This is classic you, K9.

You run out of argumentation for one of my questions, so you spin the story by very aggressively chancing the subject.

You stated earlier that having a TE next to our LT wouldn't make it any easier to protect the QB. Yet while arguing that the TE can line up on both sides, you say that Clark moved to the blindside to help Tait with Freeney.

That doesn't add up...

Please make up your mind. Is a TE next to the OT a help or a non-factor? When you answer that, we can get back to the original subject AND then I'll answer this question.

I haven't said that the TE doesn't ever line up off left-tackle. Find where I did. I said that there's nothing doctrinaire about the tight end having to line up off the frontside of the quarterback, which you contend is the way that it happens "90% of the time", and that this is done mainly to help out the frontside blocker.

I think that the TE goes wherever is he going to be most useful, and against premier pass rushers, they often go to off left tackle, because that's where the league's best pass rushers tend to align. It has nothing to do with frontside v. blindside, as you contend. It has everything to do with where the best pass rusher is positioned, which has been my contention all along.

A TE next to the OT is often a help to the pass blocker or run blocker on that side. That's never been my contention. I dispute the fact that the TE lines up on the frontside of the quarterback 90% of the time because it's his frontside, which is what you say.

I didn't change the subject, BACH. I gave a counter-example to your dogmatic argument that the TE always lines up on the QB's frontside, which provides help to that tackle. According to you, because Leinart is left-handed, Davis got extra help "90% of the time." That simply isn't the case.
 
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BACH

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I haven't said that the TE doesn't ever line up off left-tackle. Find where I did. I said that there's nothing doctrinaire about the tight end having to line up off the frontside of the quarterback, which you contend is the way that it happens "90% of the time", and that this is done mainly to help out the frontside blocker.

I think that the TE goes wherever is he going to be most useful, and against premier pass rushers, they often go to off left tackle, because that's where the league's best pass rushers tend to align. It has nothing to do with frontside v. blindside, as you contend. It has everything to do with where the best pass rusher is positioned, which has been my contention all along.

A TE next to the OT is often a help to the pass blocker or run blocker on that side. That's never been my contention. I dispute the fact that the TE lines up on the frontside of the quarterback 90% of the time because it's his frontside, which is what you say.

I didn't change the subject, BACH. I gave a counter-example to your dogmatic argument that the TE always lines up on the QB's frontside, which provides help to that tackle. According to you, because Leinart is left-handed, Davis got extra help "90% of the time." That simply isn't the case.

Another example of you simply not wanting to understand what I'm saying. If the TE stays at home in pass-protection, then naturally he'll be lined up the the side where the most dangerous DE is. You're are correct if he stays at home, BUT how many plays do the TE actually stay to pass-protect during a season? Not many!

I'm talking about all passing plays, where the TE goes into a pattern.

- We do not have a burner at TE and our TEs are used as dump-off and/or running short and intermedian pattern.
-So, when our TE goes into a pattern then he lines up on the left on almost every play.
- He lines up to the left, because he's in Leinart vision on the frontside so Leinart easier can go back to him, if the WRs are covered.
-Look at the games. Pope is usually lined up on the left side (If it's 90%, 85%, 80% or 95% I don't know. But he lines up on the left in the vast majority of all plays.)
- It's not like the TE helps the LT block the DE, but just him lining up on next to the LT slows the DE slow considerable, becuase is creates traffic in the area where the DE usually pass-rush AND the DE has to anticipate being downblocked by the TE on outside running plays.

That's why it's easier to pass-protect on the frontside than the blindside. And it goes for basicly every team, with the exception of the Chargers and Colts. The TE usually lines up on the frontside, because he's in the QB vision on that side.

It's pretty basic football knowledge that the TE usually lines up to the QBs front side.

Still haven't answered my question....
 

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Arrington being on the market might help the Cards in the OLB search. I'm not saying they should get Arrington but him being out there as well might drive down the price for Cato June a little. :thumbup:

I doubt that very seriously. Him being cut after a non-season like this screams that he's damaged goods. Cato June is gonna get his regardless.
 
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Pariah

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Am I the only one who wouldn't mind if the Cards took a chance on Arrington?
 
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