PFW article on Kurt Warner

[Totally_Red]

Lots of quotes with his rep, Mark Bartelstein....

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/Commentary/Columns/2008/edholm2319.htm

excerpt:

Warner is having one of his best seasons, not as great as his magical 1999 and ’01 campaigns, but his timing couldn’t be better. He’s in the final year of his deal and is set to hit the market as one of the more valuable free agents next year.

Unless the Cardinals step up and re-sign him. Warner’s agent, Mark Bartelstein, and Cardinals GM Rod Graves spoke about this as recently as last week. The phone lines remain open, although no significant progress has been made toward an extension.

 

[CardLogic]

This will be a topic until the Cardinals re-sign Warner before the start of the free agency period.

 

[RolleRocks]

Is Graves Asleep at the Wheel?

I find it amazing that nothing has been done on the Warner contract front.

Come on....are they just going to wait until he wins an MVP and is eligible for FA before they work out the details of next years contract?

Are they going to try to convince us that reworking Darnell Dockett's, Adrian Wilson's, or Karlos Dansby's contracts should take precedence over bringing back the guy that makes this whole offense work?

Like this article relays, if the Cards jack around with Warner, a rejuvinated Warner could easily move on to a franchise ready to contend for a SB title.

And then what? Leinart flops around on offense, while the newly-overpaid D continues its inconsistant play?

No thanks.

 

[Shane]

I find it amazing that nothing has been done on the Warner contract front.

Come on....are they just going to wait until he wins an MVP and is eligible for FA before they work out the details of next years contract?

Are they going to try to convince us that reworking Darnell Dockett's, Adrian Wilson's, or Karlos Dansby's contracts should take precedence over bringing back the guy that makes this whole offense work?

Like this article relays, if the Cards jack around with Warner, a rejuvinated Warner could easily move on to a franchise ready to contend for a SB title.

And then what? Leinart flops around on offense, while the newly-overpaid D continues its inconsistant play?

No thanks.

There has been talks. It wouldnt shock me in the least if it isnt Warners agent holding this up. He sees the year Kurt is having and would be smart to wait and see if Kurt keeps it up and wins an MVP an award he is the clear front runner for. That would definitely bloat his contract value.

 

[Totally_Red]

I find it amazing that nothing has been done on the Warner contract front.

Come on....are they just going to wait until he wins an MVP and is eligible for FA before they work out the details of next years contract?

Are they going to try to convince us that reworking Darnell Dockett's, Adrian Wilson's, or Karlos Dansby's contracts should take precedence over bringing back the guy that makes this whole offense work?

Like this article relays, if the Cards jack around with Warner, a rejuvinated Warner could easily move on to a franchise ready to contend for a SB title.

And then what? Leinart flops around on offense, while the newly-overpaid D continues its inconsistant play?

No thanks.

I think he'll be a Cardinal in 2009, but Minnesota jumps out as a logical destination if he isn't. Their Achilles heel is quarterback and Gus Frerotte threw another 3 picks Sunday.

 

[moklerman]

I wouldn't worry about anything from Warner's side of things. He'll get as much money as he can get while staying in AZ. He is very faithful especially when he's happy and doesn't have to learn a new coach, new players, new system and compete for his job. He went into 2000 without a new contract after winning the SB and MVP in 1999 and said he wanted to be on the field with his team and playing football. He lets his agent handle the off the field stuff and is saying the same things now that he said back then.

He wants to be in Arizona so something will get done here if the Cardinals aren't being ridiculous with their offer. Which I don't think they will be once the season is over. I'm of the opinion that neither side is particularly motivated right now.

 

[Evil Ash]

I find it amazing that nothing has been done on the Warner contract front.

Come on....are they just going to wait until he wins an MVP and is eligible for FA before they work out the details of next years contract?

Are they going to try to convince us that reworking Darnell Dockett's, Adrian Wilson's, or Karlos Dansby's contracts should take precedence over bringing back the guy that makes this whole offense work?

Like this article relays, if the Cards jack around with Warner, a rejuvinated Warner could easily move on to a franchise ready to contend for a SB title.

And then what? Leinart flops around on offense, while the newly-overpaid D continues its inconsistant play?

No thanks.

Meh. Warner is having one helluva year but is 37 years old and not getting any younger. We don't know if this is his last year as he has admitted that he has thought about retirement even after Boldin recovered. He and his family don't want to move so he'll re-sign here or likely retire.

Players like Wilson and Dansby are going to be playing for years so yeah I'd say they are a higher priority at this point.

I don't know why in people are so down on Leinart other than he had a horrid half in a preseason game. Whis said the competition was extremely close so I don't see why there would be a massive drop off in production unless our great WRs suddenly disappeared. We're going to have to move on at some point

 

[moklerman]

I don't know why in people are so down on Leinart other than he had a horrid half in a preseason game. Whis said the competition was extremely close so I don't see why there would be a massive drop off in production unless our great WRs suddenly disappeared. We're going to have to move on at some point

A bird in the hand? Also, it takes at least 2 years together to get that kind of timing and recognition that Warner and the receiving corps has right now.

Gannon won an MVP at 38 so if Warner can produce this year and two more, isn't that worth rolling the dice? It's not like Frerotte in Minnesota. He and the Vikings are winning but it won't be much of slice when he's replaced. The Cardinals are riding the backs of the passing game right now so it seems crucial to keep the QB in that mix.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

A bird in the hand? Also, it takes at least 2 years together to get that kind of timing and recognition that Warner and the receiving corps has right now.

Gannon won an MVP at 38 so if Warner can produce this year and two more, isn't that worth rolling the dice? It's not like Frerotte in Minnesota. He and the Vikings are winning but it won't be much of slice when he's replaced. The Cardinals are riding the backs of the passing game right now so it seems crucial to keep the QB in that mix.

I am really starcrossed on this as I am one of the few that thinks that Leinart has the goods and don't want to risk losing him for another two years of Kurt Warner - ESPECIALLY if we don't wind up winning anything of consequence.

Warner has been unreal this year but am I naive to think that Leinart would play well too with good protection and those WR's? Not as well but well enough to continue to win and still have a future. I mean he had one bad half in preseason and everyone one wants to kill him. By that same logic - the Cardinals are flawed pretenders because of the game they played against SF on Monday. It's just too small a sample size.

And I was really encouraged by his first and last preseason performance.

I don't know what to think. its safe to say the Wisenhunt era will be made or broken by this decision. If they feel they have an Aaron Rodgers on the bench then they should give Warner an incentive based deal an hope he stays. If they are not convinced then they should throw the moon at Warner.

I am not sure what to think and I see both sides. It will be interesting - thats for sure. The last 8 games will likely be what ultimately makes this decision happen.

 

[moklerman]

I mean he had onebad half in preseason and everyone one wants to kill him.

That's not true at all for me. That game was a further indicator of his steady decline after a fast start. I don't think Leinart will be as much of a loss as many are fearing because he really wasn't as advertised. I was perfectly fine with whatever shortcomings he might have physically but he, IMO, has shown that he has too many shortcomings between the ears. Not weakness per se, but certainly not the strength that he was supposed to have. The Raiders game encapsulated that. While it was just one game it was a true test of Leinart's grit. I think everyone knew that the game was very important to his status as the starter and that pressure, apparently, was too much for him. That is not a good thing from a QB.

I still have hope that he'll pull it all together but I don't think it's rational to give up the best QB in the game, regardless of his potential time left, for a true risk in Leinart. I think Leinart's third try as starter will go much better than his earlier attempts to it may all work out. I wonder if they will ask him to restructure though? And if not, will he be thought worth keeping as such a high price? He isn't Whis' guy and coach has got to have some monster clout at this point with so many of his decisions working so well.

 

[Evil Ash]

A bird in the hand? Also, it takes at least 2 years together to get that kind of timing and recognition that Warner and the receiving corps has right now.

Gannon won an MVP at 38 so if Warner can produce this year and two more, isn't that worth rolling the dice? It's not like Frerotte in Minnesota. He and the Vikings are winning but it won't be much of slice when he's replaced. The Cardinals are riding the backs of the passing game right now so it seems crucial to keep the QB in that mix.

In short, NO! Leinart is up for an extension soon and I'd like to have some sort of plan for the future.

Praying that another good QB falls to us in the draft isn't a plan.

I like Warner and have no problem with him starting for another year. However, the team has to move on at some point

 

[Shane]

In short, NO! Leinart is up for an extension soon and I'd like to have some sort of plan for the future.

Isnt Leinart under contract for 3 more years?

 

[Evil Ash]

That's not true at all for me. That game was a further indicator of his steady decline after a fast start. I don't think Leinart will be as much of a loss as many are fearing because he really wasn't as advertised. I was perfectly fine with whatever shortcomings he might have physically but he, IMO, has shown that he has too many shortcomings between the ears. Not weakness per se, but certainly not the strength that he was supposed to have. The Raiders game encapsulated that. While it was just one game it was a true test of Leinart's grit. I think everyone knew that the game was very important to his status as the starter and that pressure, apparently, was too much for him. That is not a good thing from a QB.

I still have hope that he'll pull it all together but I don't think it's rational to give up the best QB in the game, regardless of his potential time left, for a true risk in Leinart. I think Leinart's third try as starter will go much better than his earlier attempts to it may all work out. I wonder if they will ask him to restructure though? And if not, will he be thought worth keeping as such a high price? He isn't Whis' guy and coach has got to have some monster clout at this point with so many of his decisions working so well.

LOL this coming from a Warner fan. In case you forgot, Warner is on his 3rd team (technically 4 if you want to include his brief time with the Packers). He had a great time with the Rams during the run then he couldn't get out of his own way in the last few years with the Rams. He then went to the Giants and couldn't stop turning the ball over.

He then came to the Cards and continued with his struggles and lost his job to Leinart. He got the job back as a result of an injury and after some sort of epiphany has been unbelievable (returning to his MVP state and not turning the ball over).

Our coach said the competition at QB was close between Warner and Leinart. I don't see that as a steady decline at all but nice try at spin there chief

 

[Evil Ash]

Isnt Leinart under contract for 3 more years?

This one and 2 more years I believe. The problem is that he hit a number of his escalators due to his play his rookie year. We're going to have to restructure sooner rather than later if we want to re-sign Warner also.

 

[moklerman]

Praying that another good QB falls to us in the draft isn't a plan.

I'm not ready to label Leinart as a "good QB" just yet. Potential? Yes. Glimpses? Yes. Durability? No. Consistency? No. Growth? No. Maturity? Not so much.

I think he's got a chance but there have been many who've shown spurts here and there and didn't work out. Heck, I could probably make a stronger case for McCown in terms of what he actually did on the field. Higher completion %, higher TD %, higher QB rating, better runner. In '05 when he passed for almost 800 yards and 4 TD in back to back games I thought he looked pretty darned full of potential.

If Leinart earns his way back to being a starter I've got no problem with him playing. If the Cardinals choose to play him because of his contract and draft position/potential then I can't agree.

 

[RolleRocks]

I guess I must be watching some other team.

Besides Warner, Fitz, and Q, everyone on this team seems replaceable to me.

As for Leinart, to think that the team will not experience a dropoff going from a QB currently playing at an MVP level to a guy with a career passer rating of 71 is just beyond wishful thinking.

 

[moklerman]

He had a great time with the Rams during the run then he couldn't get out of his own way in the last few years with the Rams.

6 games. 2 of those with broken bones in his throwing hand.

and after some sort of epiphany has been unbelievable (returning to his MVP state and not turning the ball over).

Health, being in the same system and getting some playing time, gloves. I don't dispute the fact that he had his share of problems but he also had his share of success before the problems. There was a very real chance that he could revert to form. Leinart doesn't have that. Your perceptions of him are based on potential and hope. There is unfortunately a very real possibility, especially considering the long history of college studs/NFL duds, that he won't realize that potential. He is a risk at this point. It has nothing to do with Warner.

Our coach said the competition at QB was close between Warner and Leinart. I don't see that as a steady decline at all but nice try at spin there chief

I hope he's right but I also realize that he is very adept at coach speak and player manipulation. He has constantly tried to boost Leinart's confidence and I think that much of what he had to say about naming Warner the starter was for Leinart's benefit over anything analytical.

From the time he's got here, Whis has tried to "fix" Leinart's game so it's hard to say what he really thinks of him. But even I'm not naive enough to think that just because he said the competition was close in preseason has anything to do with how each of them is playing now or that if Warner got hurt, Leinart would just pick up where he left off. Leinart will need quite a bit of time to just get in sync with the receivers and regressing the playbook will only mean a drop in production.

Leinart won't have to go through everything a rookie would but he's still at his sophomore slump stage so who knows if a season will be enough to get him caught up? Year three is critical because that's usually when a QB gets "it". Leinart's been so up and down it's hard to tell and no one knows if he's even going to be able to play a 16 game schedule yet.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I'm not ready to label Leinart as a "good QB" just yet. Potential? Yes. Glimpses? Yes. Durability? No. Consistency? No. Growth? No. Maturity? Not so much.

I think he's got a chance but there have been many who've shown spurts here and there and didn't work out. Heck, I could probably make a stronger case for McCown in terms of what he actually did on the field. Higher completion %, higher TD %, higher QB rating, better runner. In '05 when he passed for almost 800 yards and 4 TD in back to back games I thought he looked pretty darned full of potential.

If Leinart earns his way back to being a starter I've got no problem with him playing. If the Cardinals choose to play him because of his contract and draft position/potential then I can't agree.

I am assuming that if they let Warner walk it is because, like Green Bay, they think the understudy is ready to go.

Keep in mind Farve took them to 13-3 and the NFC championship game and they STILL Let him walk. If you belive in the kid they maybe willing to think about the future on this one.

 

[moklerman]

Keep in mind Farve took them to 13-3 and the NFC championship game and they STILL Let him walk. If you belive in the kid they maybe willing to think about the future on this one.

I think Warner would have to retire and then decide to come back after OTA's for this scenario to hold true. Very similar on the surface but if Favre had committed to the team saying he was definitely coming back then they don't draft 2 QB's and at least give him a shot to keep his job. IMO.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I think Warner would have to retire and then decide to come back after OTA's for this scenario to hold true. Very similar on the surface but if Favre had committed to the team saying he was definitely coming back then they don't draft 2 QB's and at least give him a shot to keep his job. IMO.

This was in the working for a couple years. They forced Bretts hand earlyon because they WANTED him to retire and move on. They knew that the longer it dragged on the more in flux they would be and they wanted to start the Aaron Rodgers era.

Here is my point. Warner is playing lights out and I love him for it. But if the coaches think Matt is ready they will not throw the bank at him. And they will likely do everything to keep him if they don't deem Leinart ready to take over the franchise.

So like I have stated multiple times in the past. In Wisenhunt I trust. I have no idea where he is leaning but I guess we will find out.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I guess I must be watching some other team.

Besides Warner, Fitz, and Q, everyone on this team seems replaceable to me.

As for Leinart, to think that the team will not experience a dropoff going from a QB currently playing at an MVP level to a guy with a career passer rating of 71 is just beyond wishful thinking.

Everyone is replacable under the right circumstances. See numerous threads about every single player you just listed this past offseason.

And the point isn't "Is Matt going to step in and become the MVP?" as much as it is "is two years of Warner better then potential 10 years of Matt?"

And again ....it comes down to if you buy into Matt long term. And no one on this board knows either way as we haven't been watching practice or sitting down nightly to pick Wisenhunt's brain.

 

[Syracusecards]

I don't think we have to worry about this at all. Kurt knows this is the perfect place for him with the receivers he has as well as the coaches giving him the freedom to call his own plays at the line. Just because he's playing lights out for us, doesn't mean he'll do the same for another team.

I think that, plus the fact he doesn't want to have to move his whole family to a new place will make this a pretty easy negotiation. Kurt doesn't strike me as a greedy person by any means so I think we can get him back for 5-6 mil per year and with a decent signing bonus. If we get rid of Edge in the offseason, I think that will knock 5 mil off the books right there.

 

[moklerman]

How does 5-6 million per year compare to what some of the other QB's are making? I'm sure that he won't be greedy but he won't want bottom scale money either.

 

[Shane]

How does 5-6 million per year compare to what some of the other QB's are making? I'm sure that he won't be greedy but he won't want bottom scale money either.

That with incentives should be good IMO. CArds have to protect against his age.

 

[freebyrd]

like it or not leinert is the future good or bad of this franchise, you can only learn so much holding a clip board, the kids been successful every where he goes
he was a heisman trophy winner for god sakes, yeah maybe he was a little immature when he first came to the league but i can;t think of a better quarterback
to learn behind than warner, warners body is 37 years old and hes done some amazing things, remember last year playing with that bionic arm stabilizer and handing off backwards?

but father time is a bitch and will catch up with him, all it takes is gandy to whiff block one time and warner to get blindsided full speed and you'll be seeing matt for a while and i think you'll be glad you did

imo, the benching has humbled the hot shot a bit, but if we let the future of our franchise get away for what will be a 38 year old QB next year, we'll see him taking the eagles or somebody else,
to the playoffs year after year

mark my words
unless warner wins it all for us i let him have an incentive laden deal or walk