Philadelphia Phillies @ Arizona Diamondbacks Aug 6 - Aug 8, 2018

[TJ]

Don’t care if that pitcher went to my high school. Hold this “L”, MFer

 

[Shaggy]

So glad those fans didn't interfere with that ball!

 

[BC867]

Congratulations, D-backs fans. We're a half game ahead of the Dodgers. And it was Peralta's first walk-off HR. 'Beats hitting for the cycle.

There's nothing wrong with a bases empty HR in a tie game, vs. when a base hit is all it takes to advance runners and drive in runners n scoring position.

 

[gmabel830]

GET OFF THE TRACKS!!!!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[BC867]

Peralta, Escobar and Souza 3-4-5 carried the offense (at least, what offense was needed to win).

Kudos to the pitching staff as well.

 

[Willie D]

You gotta think there is some time difference that affected the Phils tonight. It was 2:30 a.m. EDT by the time this thing ended. 2:30 a.m. in Philly is never a good time to be out and around. and the heat at 11:30 MST must have them thinking, except for that guy from Mountain Pointe. Those guys are gettin' on the bus thinking, "Why is it so f***ing hot right now?"

Get used to it, fellaz. Welcome to h-e-doublehockeysticks

You must be registered for see images attach

l.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

'Sorry, Shaggy, but I disagree. It is so universal that I hold management and the leagues responsible. The players do what their coaches tell them to do.

So the batters are being coached to hit into the shift?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Ronin]

Snake Lee‏@Nelson81 3h3 hours ago
The Phillies had to win that game last night. They didn’t. Now they face the best 1-2 punch in the NL with Greinke and Corbin today and tomorrow

 

[Ronin]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Ronin]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Ronin]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Ronin]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[BC867]

So the batters are being coached to hit into the shift?

In a word, yes!

Today's sibremetrics (being taught by all teams) features "lift". Lift means home run swings on every pitch. Home run swings for most players (Goldy is one of the few notable exceptions) means hit to your power field.

The team on defense feels that if you can get a hitter to go for a single to the opposite field, vs. an extra base hit to their power field, you come out ahead.

Look at all the runners left on base by the D-backs, when all they have to do is poke a ball to the uncovered positions in the opposite field to move runners.

I'll take single, double and single for two runs any day over a home run, popup and strikeout for one run. And giving the pitcher a chance to regroup.

I have no problem with David Peralta's walk-off home run swing to center field when the bases are empty and we're tied in extra innings.

But I do with this management philosophy of stubbornly hitting into the shift over and over, even when you have only two or three hits during the game and many runners left on base.

MLB is obsessed with the home run. Strategy is a thing of the past, even in the National League. Which is why I changed my long-standing opinion against the DH in the NL. If you can't beat them, join them. Put nine hitters into the batting order. But that doesn't mean blindly hitting it to the crowded side of the field. Even Bob Brenly said on the air last night, "Everybody is trying to hit a home run."

To elaborate on my one word answer to your question, if management did not coach the players to hit into these extreme shifts (even for light hitting players and rookies) and instructed them to "hit it where they ain't", they damn well would be. Or they'd be benched.

It is a phase that baseball is going through and it is not a good one.

Look at our futility last night for the eight innings when their top pitcher was in. If the D-backs were coached to hit it to the open spots, we wouldn't have wasted those first eight innings.

 

[NJCardFan]

In typical Phillies fashion they snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I swear this team is in first place with smoke and mirrors. They wouldn't know situational hitting if their lives depend on it, their awful defensively, and the amount of times this team strikes out is insane. 14 times last night including with a runner on 3rd with no out.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Every batter should be able to bat around the shift. I agree, I don't like the shift but these are guys that have been batting thier whole life. They should work on how to defeat the shift.

I don't like the shift but I absolutely love it compared to the idea of requiring teams to play dumb. What's next, forcing pitchers to not study player tendencies? Knowledge should not be a bad thing. Teach hitters how to use the whole field and it won't be much of an issue by the next generation of hitters.

 

[Ronin]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[BC867]

It is difficult to judge the today's lineup by 'totals' stats with all of the injuries.

But look at the batting averages -- 1-7. 'Quite a difference from the lower .200's and the .100's that we had gotten accustomed to. Especially with Greinke pitching.

Except for left-on-base performances, the D-backs hitters are peaking at just the right time. And our limited bench is respectable as well.

The Front Office deserves a lot of credit for putting together this group, plus Jay (even though his batting average is streaky).

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[DWKB]

In a word, yes!

Today's sibremetrics (being taught by all teams) features "lift". Lift means home run swings on every pitch. Home run swings for most players (Goldy is one of the few notable exceptions) means hit to your power field.

The team on defense feels that if you can get a hitter to go for a single to the opposite field, vs. an extra base hit to their power field, you come out ahead.

Look at all the runners left on base by the D-backs, when all they have to do is poke a ball to the uncovered positions in the opposite field to move runners.

I'll take single, double and single for two runs any day over a home run, popup and strikeout for one run. And giving the pitcher a chance to regroup.

I have no problem with David Peralta's walk-off home run swing to center field when the bases are empty and we're tied in extra innings.

But I do with this management philosophy of stubbornly hitting into the shift over and over, even when you have only two or three hits during the game and many runners left on base.

MLB is obsessed with the home run. Strategy is a thing of the past, even in the National League. Which is why I changed my long-standing opinion against the DH in the NL. If you can't beat them, join them. Put nine hitters into the batting order. But that doesn't mean blindly hitting it to the crowded side of the field. Even Bob Brenly said on the air last night, "Everybody is trying to hit a home run."

To elaborate on my one word answer to your question, if management did not coach the players to hit into these extreme shifts (even for light hitting players and rookies) and instructed them to "hit it where they ain't", they damn well would be. Or they'd be benched.

It is a phase that baseball is going through and it is not a good one.

Look at our futility last night for the eight innings when their top pitcher was in. If the D-backs were coached to hit it to the open spots, we wouldn't have wasted those first eight innings.

You know not of what you speak.

 

[DWKB]

I don't like the shift but I absolutely love it compared to the idea of requiring teams to play dumb. What's next, forcing pitchers to not study player tendencies? Knowledge should not be a bad thing. Teach hitters how to use the whole field and it won't be much of an issue by the next generation of hitters.

Pitchers originally threw to contact. The game changed and now they throw to deceive.

 

[BC867]

You know not of what you speak.

Now, there's a convincing retort to my ten paragraph post. OK, you win the debate. 'Happy?

But thinking like that won't help the D-backs improve their disappointing left-on-base performances. It is what it is. If there weren't a problem, we wouldn't be discussing it.

 

[AZ Native]

You know not of what you speak.

Can you elaborate? Which points are you disputing and which do you agree with?

 

[DWKB]

Can you elaborate? Which points are you disputing and which do you agree with?

There is so much to unpack.

1) Superficially, it’s sabermetrics, not sibremetrics.

2) The key things to hitting the ball are to get a high exit velocity and backspin. That makes the ball travel most and generates the most power. Whether it leaves the park or not. Even on line drives these things matter.

3) This concept of “lift” BC is obsessed with came from Ted Williams, who obviously knows nothing about hitting and is just a stat geek:

In The Science of Hitting, Ted Williams bemoaned that hitters "always heard that the ideal swing is level or `down."' The Hall of Famer advocated a "slight upswing" because it "puts the bat flush in line with the path of the ball for a longer period." That is, if the ball is traveling down from the pitcher's hand to the catcher's glove, the best chance at solid contact is to swing the bat on the same plane — up toward the pitcher's release point.

You must be registered for see images attach

4) In order to generate that exit velocity, hitters want as much whip through the strike zone they can generate. For those who golf, think of your driver swing. I understand the asthetic desire to see hitters swing more like they have a PW than a driver, but think of trying to pitch with a driver. It’s not easy nor something you practice. The defensive shift is more about the propensity to roll over a ball with a grounder than driving a ball well struck anyways. Even if you don’t hit a HR, a well struck line drive in the gap will still generate a hit on most occasions.

5) MLB has better scouting and better understanding of offensive skill than at any other point in the history of the game. Teams aren’t looking for that weak stick middle fielder to poke at the ball like pre 80’s baseball. They are looking for the next Mike Trout and A-Rod.

6) We didn’t fail last night because we were swinging for the fences focused on the three true outcomes. We only struck out 4 times in those 8 innings. We failed because Jake Arrietta has ungodly movement on his pitches and causes weak contact. The argument that we should try and make more weak contact instead of swinging wildly for the fences is not to be made with Arrietta who generates weak contact without any help of the batter giving up his exit velocity.

 

[AZ Native]

There is so much to unpack.

1) Superficially, it’s sabermetrics, not sibremetrics.

2) The key things to hitting the ball are to get a high exit velocity and backspin. That makes the ball travel most and generates the most power. Whether it leaves the park or not. Even on line drives these things matter.

3) This concept of “lift” BC is obsessed with came from Ted Williams, who obviously knows nothing about hitting and is just a stat geek:

In The Science of Hitting, Ted Williams bemoaned that hitters "always heard that the ideal swing is level or `down."' The Hall of Famer advocated a "slight upswing" because it "puts the bat flush in line with the path of the ball for a longer period." That is, if the ball is traveling down from the pitcher's hand to the catcher's glove, the best chance at solid contact is to swing the bat on the same plane — up toward the pitcher's release point.

You must be registered for see images attach

4) In order to generate that exit velocity, hitters want as much whip through the strike zone they can generate. For those who golf, think of your driver swing. I understand the asthetic desire to see hitters swing more like they have a PW than a driver, but think of trying to pitch with a driver. It’s not easy nor something you practice. The defensive shift is more about the propensity to roll over a ball with a grounder than driving a ball well struck anyways. Even if you don’t hit a HR, a well struck line drive in the gap will still generate a hit on most occasions.

5) MLB has better scouting and better understanding of offensive skill than at any other point in the history of the game. Teams aren’t looking for that weak stick middle fielder to poke at the ball like pre 80’s baseball. They are looking for the next Mike Trout and A-Rod.

6) We didn’t fail last night because we were swinging for the fences focused on the three true outcomes. We only struck out 4 times in those 8 innings. We failed because Jake Arrietta has ungodly movement on his pitches and causes weak contact. The argument that we should try and make more weak contact instead of swinging wildly for the fences is not to be made with Arrietta who generates weak contact without any help of the batter giving up his exit velocity.

Very interesting, thanks for the input. I am just an average fan enjoying the game but obviously I am behind the times. It is great that you take the time to post here.

 

[DWKB]

Very interesting, thanks for the input. I am just an average fan enjoying the game but obviously I am behind the times. It is great that you take the time to post here.

The good news is you don’t need to know or keep up with the intricacies of the sport to enjoy the action and root for your team anymore than you need to know the physics of inertia and gravity to enjoy a coaster ride.

 

[82CardsGrad]

The human train wreck crashes into the wall again... no bueno!