Pick up games, training camp news

[Superbone]

It's never particularly revealing and it will be on more than once but for those interested, the NBA TV channel will be showing the Phoenix Suns Team Preview this afternoon. It's on at 4:30 PM Pacific Time.

I watched this last night and I thought it was one of the best Suns' season previews NBATV has done yet.

 

[Ronin]

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[Ronin]

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think he was more of a Russell Westbrook type of player in Orlando. He was a top player, for sure, but being in a weak Eastern conference without MJ helped him reach the finals so quickly. He put up big numbers and was ridiculously dominate for such a young player but until he went to LA he didn't help bring about championships for his team and work in the team concept so the numbers he put up were more to help push his team past their opponents rather than just putting up great stats and winning because the team had more talent. In LA the teams had talent but they also played up to their potential while Orlando the teams had talent, didn't always play to their potential, and would lose out in the playoffs because of that.

I want to make sure i understand your argument. Kid wins rookie of the year averaging 23/14/3 blocks. Next year takes his team to first playoffs averaging 29/13/2.5 and loses in first round to mature Indiana team. In his third season takes team to finals averaging 29/12/2.5. In fourth season loses to jordan’s Bulls in conference finals and then jumps to lakers.

ROY
First playoffs
Finals
Conference finals loss to Jordan

And you’re criticizing that?!?

 

[leclerc]

Are you kidding, Orlando Shaq had Penny, 3D and some other dudes. That's nothing like what Ayton has. Ok, he has Booker, but Booker is not Penny. He's not. Orlando Shaq was bound to win. Phoenix Ayton could be great. I hope so. But it's not a guarantee. He is impressive though.

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Look at that body, that movement. He catches the ball. He shoots it from the outside. I understand he does not have a high motor since he's that much better than everyone else (in college). Being in the NBA should hopefully give him the challenge to take the next step, to work to become the best there as well. Off course you coast when the opposition is crap. It's human nature.

Come on Ayton. We're rooting for you.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think he was more of a Russell Westbrook type of player in Orlando. He was a top player, for sure, but being in a weak Eastern conference without MJ helped him reach the finals so quickly. He put up big numbers and was ridiculously dominate for such a young player but until he went to LA he didn't help bring about championships for his team and work in the team concept so the numbers he put up were more to help push his team past their opponents rather than just putting up great stats and winning because the team had more talent. In LA the teams had talent but they also played up to their potential while Orlando the teams had talent, didn't always play to their potential, and would lose out in the playoffs because of that.

This doesn't jibe with my recollection.

He singlehandedly took a 20 win team and DOUBLED their win total to 41 in his first season where he won rookie of the year.

The next season, he and Penny (who was still also just a rookie) to 50 wins and a 4 seed where they lost to a building Pacers team. Built on the previous season to get to 50 wins. That's an improvement of 30 wins in two seasons.

The season after that, they won 57 games and the East wasn't weak by any stretch. Jordan had come back that season with 25 games left and while he wasn't peak Jordan, he and the Bulls were pretty damn good, ripping off a 17-4 streak to end the season. And that was just the in the conference Semi's. That Orlando team was the only one to beat ANY Jordan led team from 1991-1998. They then beat another VERY GOOD Pacers team. They went to the Finals and definitely fell apart against Houston, but Shaq still dominated.

His 4th season they won 60 games, in another VERY GOOD Eastern Conference only to get smoked what many thought was the greatest team of all time in the 72 win Bulls.

That's 4 seasons... where his team went from 21 wins... to 41 wins... to 57 wins and the Finals... to 60 wins and losing to the best team ever.

He definitely got better and more focussed in the LA years, but what great player doesn't as they get older.

Calling him a Westbrook because he didn't win a title in his first four years in the league doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Mainstreet]

Devin Booker has the hand injury issue resolved. He will shoot left handed.

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[Mainstreet]

I'm hoping someone can make it to the Suns open practice scheduled for noon tomorrow (Sept. 29) at Talking Stick Arena. It would be nice to get some feedback.

 

[Ronin]

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[Mainstreet]

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I especially liked this excerpt from the article.

“Coach Igor’s a very smart coach,” Deandre Ayton said. “He’s all about fundamentals and really taking your time in the post, taking care of your body and really all about conditioning as well and studying the game.”

Kokoškov’s player development skills have been on display throughout the league with players such as Goran Dragic, Donovan Mitchell and Luka Dončić. He will now get a chance to work with one of the youngest core’s in the NBA and prove what he can do while leading the pack.

“He’s a player’s coach,” Troy Daniels said. “He wants to know how you’re feeling, what you think about this type of play or what do you think about this defensive scheme. That’s what you want in a coach, especially a young team like the Suns.”

https://www.nba.com/suns/features/coach-kokoskov-preaches-details-fundamentals-first-training-camp#

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I'm hoping someone can make it to the Suns open practice scheduled for noon tomorrow (Sept. 29) at Talking Stick Arena. It would be nice to get some feedback.

Headed there now!

 

[Ronin]

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[ColdPickleNachos]

I am 8 rows back, basically center court. Later today, I will make sure to share any insights I glean.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[AzStevenCal]

I am 8 rows back, basically center court. Later today, I will make sure to share any insights I glean.

Excellent. Looking forward to it.

 

[Mainstreet]

I am 8 rows back, basically center court. Later today, I will make sure to share any insights I glean.

I'm anxious to hear your opinion of the Suns point guards after the practice and who you think might start.

And of course I want your opinion on Ayton's readiness.

In other words a complete scouting report. LOL

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I'm anxious to hear your opinion of the Suns point guards after the practice and who you think might start.

And of course I want your opinion on Ayton's readiness.

In other words a complete scouting report. LOL

I took a ton of notes and have a ton of thoughts. I'll have a comprehensive writeup soon...Unfortunately, I had a thing come in for work...so it might be a few hours.

 

[Mainstreet]

I took a ton of notes and have a ton of thoughts. I'll have a comprehensive writeup soon...Unfortunately, I had a thing come in for work...so it might be a few hours.

Absolutely no rush. I was only joking around. However, I absolutely value your opinion.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I took a ton of notes and have a ton of thoughts. I'll have a comprehensive writeup soon...Unfortunately, I had a thing come in for work...so it might be a few hours.

You're putting work ahead of thirsty Suns fans? Where is your fan ethic?

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I am 8 rows back, basically center court. Later today, I will make sure to share any insights I glean.

As promised, here's my recap...

Quick Notes:

• Players were introduced by NBA seniority, so the rookies came out first and Chandler was at the end. The only exception was Booker, who was introduced very last.
• Bizarrely, one player was noticeably low energy during introductions. Everyone ran out with a lot of animation, but Dragan Bender walked like a lame duck at an oddly slow pace. It threw off the timing of the announcer and the player behind him. He almost looked like he had just had an argument with someone and was pouting.
• Igor was on the mic at times coaching. That was also odd.
• It was a really short scrimmage. It was supposed to start at noon, but they were 20 minutes late. It ended a few minutes before 1.
• There was a lot going on, so my observations are a bit more vague than video scouting, of course. I was, for the most part, paying more attention to offense than defense.
• The game was, in general, pretty sloppy. That's to be expected though.
• After the scrimmage, the rookies had a dance competition. Each was wearing a ridiculous costume. It was clearly set up for Ayton to win (he went last), but he seemed embarrassed by the moment. In his defense, he was wearing a chicken suit. Mikal Bridges won (by fan vote), but I preferred Elie Okobo's effort in a creepy Scooby Doo costume.
• They didn't show the score, but my guess would be the black team won.
• These were the lineups:

Grey Team
1 Shaquille Harrison
2 Troy Daniels
3 TJ Warren
4 Dragan Bender
5 Tyson Chandler
De'Anthony Melton
Mikal Bridges
Richaun Holmes


Black Team
1 Isaiah Canaan
2 Josh Jackson
3 Trevor Ariza
4 Ryan Anderson
5 Deandre Ayton
Elie Okobo
Davon Reed
George King

The Standouts:

Josh Jackson - He looked like the best player on the court today. LIGHT YEARS better than Summer League. He was controlled but explosive. He also was involved in my three favorite plays of the evening: Two beautiful alley oops to Ayton and an impressive chase-down block after Harrison picked his pocket.

Deandre Ayton - Outstanding. My wife, who was with me at Summer League, at one point said, "Wow! He's looks way better than he did in Vegas!" It's a small sample size, but he was involved in pretty much every play where either team looked like a quality NBA team. He had two outstanding dunks on lobs from Jackson, a nifty pass to Okobo, and scored twice off of impressive offensive rebounds. His jumper looked smooth, and he nailed two mid-rangers to my recollection, including one off of one of those offensive rebounds. This kid is going to be really good. Glad he's better at playing basketball than dancing!

Mikal Bridges - Not only did he win the dance contest, but he's ALSO really good at basketball. Bridges was consistently aggressive going to the rim. He blew what could have been the highlight of the game where he came out of nowhere and looked like he was going to slam it home and then lost the ball, but followed that up by going strong to the rim on two of the next three possessions. Lots to like about this kid.

The Point Guards:

I watched the point guards the closest and tried to be as impartial as possible, though I must admit I was hoping the rookies would shine in a "this kid could be the answer" sort of way. It was a short scrimmage, so take it for what it's worth, but here are my thoughts...

Shaq Harrison - Based on this scrimmage, he would definitely be my day 1 starter of this group. He was the only point guard who shined on more than one play, for one. Also, he continued to stand out on defense. Jackson chased him down, but his steal from Josh was outstanding and I felt he moved his offense and pushed the pace better than the other guards. He made most of his impact early in the game, including a nice layup and some solid passes. He even hit an open three. I don't think the answer to the point guard problem this year is on the roster, but if so my money is on Harrison.

Isaiah Canaan - He missed an open three. He had a beautiful fake on a drive that got him an open layup. Other than that, he was pretty much invisible. Not a lot of good or bad.

Elie Okobo - He shows flashes, but he doesn't look even close to ready out there. He had an air ball on a three, and even on the play where he scored he looked tentative. It was a give and go with Ayton that left him wide open under the hoop. Instead of going straight up, he made a couple of pump fakes and then scored. I love his skillset, but I would be shocked if he's ready to make an impact this year.

De'Anthony Melton - He looked way more comfortable than Okobo out there, but it didn't result in any production as he missed his shots. He's also got a ways to go, but I think he's closer to producing than Elie is.

Coasting:

TJ Warren - Everyone in this category is here because they looked like they were taking a bit of a backseat during the scrimmage. Warren was not looking for his shot as much as normal. In fact, the only bucket I remember was from him following Harrison after a steal and finishing with a layup off of Josh's block.

Ryan Anderson - He didn't do a ton, but he did hit a beautiful contested three.

Trevor Ariza - He was more involved than the other players in this category, but he didn't have a huge impact. His shot wasn't falling, but he looked good otherwise.

Tyson Chandler - I believe he had a nice dunk, but it's not in my notes. Didn't do much.

Invisible:

Richaun Holmes - I don't recall a single moment from him, good or bad. Also, they did a video before the game that highlighted the new additions. He and King were the only ones not mentioned. Early indications are that he is pretty clearly behind Chandler at this point.

George King - Good hustle. I like him. Didn't have much of an impact though.

Davon Reed - He made a nice move to get a three but missed. Seemed to go into traffic a lot and didn't get really anything out of it.


Concerning:

Troy Daniels - This is really an unfair characterization on my part, but I didn't want to give him his own category. I didn't see any stats, but it sure seemed like he took more shots than anyone else on either side. He did make two threes, which is his role, but boy is he a chucker.

Dragan Bender - It's not fair to judge on something as informal and chill as this scrimmage, but Bender is making it really hard to be optimistic. I've been a supporter for the most part, but it's year three now and he still looks lost. He couldn't even do the entrance right, and then came out firing...and missing everything, including a brutal layup attempt. He did have a couple nice passes and a block after settling down, but if this game were my only evidence, I'd say he's the worst player on the team.

 

[BC867]

Wow, thank you for sharing that first hand analysis. I believe that, right through this game, Dragan Bender has amassed too many negatives as a Sun.

And that it would be in everyone's best interest to give him a chance somewhere else. If he succeeds to some degree, good for him. But, evidently, he is not doing it or going to do it here.

But then we'd need another big man who can spread the floor, wouldn't we? Do we have one? A veteran would be good for this young team.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Wow, thank you for sharing that first hand analysis. I believe that, right through this game, Dragan Bender has amassed too many negatives as a Sun.

And that it would be in everyone's best interest to give him a chance somewhere else. If he succeeds to some degree, good for him. But, evidently, he is not doing it or going to do it here.

But then we'd need another big man who can spread the floor, wouldn't we? Do we have one? A veteran would be good for this young team.

FWIW, after posting this I read the recap on BSOTS by Sidery. (I didn't want to be influenced by other opinions before putting mine down.) He seemed to agree on Ayton and Jackson (these were obvious takeaways) and also that Harrison looked like the best option as the starting point guard, but actually spent a decent amount of time on Bender as one of the positives.

Just goes to remind me that you can show the same thing to two different people and get two different reactions. I thought Bender looked timid, and he liked that he played within himself. I'd prefer he be right in the end!

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

This would be my rotation as of now:

Harrison
Booker
Jackson
Anderson
Ayton

Canaan
Bridges
Ariza
Warren
Chandler

Melton
Reed
Daniels
Bender
Holmes

Okobo and King with the NAZ Suns.

 

[Chaplin]

This would be my rotation as of now:

Harrison
Booker
Jackson
Anderson
Ayton

Canaan
Bridges
Ariza
Warren
Chandler

Melton
Reed
Daniels
Bender
Holmes

Okobo and King with the NAZ Suns.

We didn’t pay $15m for Ariza to be the 6th man. Besides Booker and Ayton, Ariza is the most guaranteed of a start. Definitely more than Anderson.

 

[elindholm]

• They didn't show the score, but my guess would be the black team won.

Couldn't you say that about any NBA game?

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

We didn’t pay $15m for Ariza to be the 6th man. Besides Booker and Ayton, Ariza is the most guaranteed of a start. Definitely more than Anderson.

I should clarify...this is the rotation I would use. Ariza may start for the reasons you mentioned,but I would have Jackson out there to start, and I would like to keep Booker at the two. I would play Bridges, Ariza, and Warren a lot though.