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ColdPickleNachos

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I could also see Ariza starting over Anderson, but I like the size to start with and trust his shot more for spacing. I would probably end up playing Ariza more than Anderson all told, so I certainly have no objection to him starting instead.
 

Mainstreet

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It's good to know the standouts were Jackson, Bridges and Ayton. They need to help carry the Suns into the future along with Booker.

I'm not worried about Ariza, Warren, Chandler and Anderson. Veterans tend to coast until the season starts. There is a reason Holmes came so cheaply.

It's good to hear good things about Harrison but this means the Suns need to add a PG all the more. Perhaps Canaan is still on the mend and will take time to heal like Reed did when he was injured.

Great stuff as usual @ColdPickleNachos.
 

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Here are some comments from Duane Rankin at azcentral. It is very much in agreement with Nachos' assessment.

Shaquille Harrison probably had the best outing of the four point guards in the scrimmage. He stole the ball from Jackson, hit a 3, scored in transition and put consistent pressure on the ball.

Isaiah Canaan, rookie De’Anthony Melton and Okobo were decent, but Kokoskov said no one has separated from the pack. Staying consistent with the idea of turning this weakness into a strength, Kokoskov reiterated the point guards may play shorter stretches.

“They’re going to play harder,” Kokoskov said. “If you know you’re going to play 40 minutes. … You kind of pace yourself. There’s no need to pace ourselves and that’s going to be a strength.”

Kokoskov said Phoenix will play “two and a half point guards” in preseason.

“We’re going to play two guys, and a third guy is going to give us some minutes, so guys can relax and be ready,” Kokoskov said. “Physiologically be ready and mentally ready to play.”
 

ColdPickleNachos

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Here are some comments from Duane Rankin at azcentral. It is very much in agreement with Nachos' assessment.

I like the idea of playing them short stretches. Melton and Harrison both have the ability to be defensive game-changers if they're allowed to go all out. The downside to that plan is getting players out of their rhythm on offense, but since no pg on the roster is capable of consistently establishing a rhythm anyway, why not keep them fresh and energized?
 

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@ColdPickleNachos
How did Chandler look guarding Ayton? I'm curious if he was really trying to stop him but couldn't or if he just let Ayton do as he pleases.

I think you made too much of Benders intro and that seemed to carry into your assessment of him. You said he was shooting and driving and that's big for him. Could be why you didn't care for what you saw and Sidery was positive.
 

ColdPickleNachos

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How did Chandler look guarding Ayton? I'm curious if he was really trying to stop him but couldn't or if he just let Ayton do as he pleases.

I think you made too much of Benders intro and that seemed to carry into your assessment of him. You said he was shooting and driving and that's big for him. Could be why you didn't care for what you saw and Sidery was positive.

Chandler did nothing to distinguish himself on defense, but I wasn't paying close enough attention to that aspect of the game that I would feel confident saying either way. When Ayton had the ball, I was focused on Ayton. Although I will say 80% of his baskets were alley-oop dunks or from offensive rebounds.

It's possible Bender's intro influenced my opinion of him, but I have a long history of giving Bender the benefit of the doubt. He missed a bunch of shots early and put up a layup attempt that was straight up embarrassing. I stand by my assessment. One difference is he seemed to be projecting Bender into Kokoskov's offense going forward, whereas I was analyzing his play for this game alone.
 

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Chandler did nothing to distinguish himself on defense, but I wasn't paying close enough attention to that aspect of the game that I would feel confident saying either way. When Ayton had the ball, I was focused on Ayton. Although I will say 80% of his baskets were alley-oop dunks or from offensive rebounds.

It's possible Bender's intro influenced my opinion of him, but I have a long history of giving Bender the benefit of the doubt. He missed a bunch of shots early and put up a layup attempt that was straight up embarrassing. I stand by my assessment. One difference is he seemed to be projecting Bender into Kokoskov's offense going forward, whereas I was analyzing his play for this game alone.


I get it, with Bender. I read Sidery and your recap and he seemed to review things for the future while you covered the future and what you saw now, with more of an emphasis on now since everyone here is always talking about the future. Bender is the type of player you can't guess what he'll look like down the road because he doesn't even know that. He's so up and down.

I don't expect Chandler to be more than a backup. I didn't real mean to ask how his defense looked. I'd be surprised if he could shut Ayton down for 20 minutes if he was trying but i was curious if he tried making Ayton earn his points or not.I think Ayton will find a way to score against just about any opponent over time but I hope Chandler isn't allow him easy looks right now and in practice. Make him work.
 

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I like the idea of playing them short stretches. Melton and Harrison both have the ability to be defensive game-changers if they're allowed to go all out. The downside to that plan is getting players out of their rhythm on offense, but since no pg on the roster is capable of consistently establishing a rhythm anyway, why not keep them fresh and energized?

My guess is Kokoskov is trying to separate the wheat from the chaff in regard to the PGs. It's not a good sign IMO but he can find the PGs that are able to contribute this season. It sounds like Harrison is the most ready but I'm thinking it is asking a lot for him to be the starter.

I can't wait to see the Suns on television to see how the team is progressing.
 

ColdPickleNachos

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My guess is Kokoskov is trying to separate the wheat from the chaff in regard to the PGs. It's not a good sign IMO but he can find the PGs that are able to contribute this season. It sounds like Harrison is the most ready but I'm thinking it is asking a lot for him to be the starter.

I can't wait to see the Suns on television to see how the team is progressing.

I still think the Suns need to bring in a real starting point guard, but if they don't I would try this plan:

Start Harrison. Have him go all out on defense and hide him a little on offense.

When that is going well, bring Melton as the first pg off the bench to play the same role.

When that's not going well, bring in Canaan as the first pg off the bench for a change of pace.

Play Booker at point in the closing minutes of hotly contested games unless one of the pgs is feeling it.

Play Okobo on the NAZ Suns for most of the year. I genuinely believe he has the talent, but he needs more confidence and experience. Let him be the man in Northern Arizona and treat it like a redshirt year.
 

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I still think the Suns need to bring in a real starting point guard, but if they don't I would try this plan:

Start Harrison. Have him go all out on defense and hide him a little on offense.

When that is going well, bring Melton as the first pg off the bench to play the same role.

When that's not going well, bring in Canaan as the first pg off the bench for a change of pace.

Play Booker at point in the closing minutes of hotly contested games unless one of the pgs is feeling it.

Play Okobo on the NAZ Suns for most of the year. I genuinely believe he has the talent, but he needs more confidence and experience. Let him be the man in Northern Arizona and treat it like a redshirt year.


I think your plan has some merit if the Suns make do with what they have.

Maybe I'm being a bit pessimistic but I don't think the Suns have the answer at PG on the roster... at least not at the moment. Even if Harrison is the starter, I think he will need a solid backup point guard.

I'm not sure two rookies and a player coming off injury are the answer.
 

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I still think the Suns need to bring in a real starting point guard, but if they don't I would try this plan:

Start Harrison. Have him go all out on defense and hide him a little on offense.

When that is going well, bring Melton as the first pg off the bench to play the same role.

When that's not going well, bring in Canaan as the first pg off the bench for a change of pace.

Play Booker at point in the closing minutes of hotly contested games unless one of the pgs is feeling it.

Play Okobo on the NAZ Suns for most of the year. I genuinely believe he has the talent, but he needs more confidence and experience. Let him be the man in Northern Arizona and treat it like a redshirt year.


That makes sense to a certain degree. I like the idea behind using them like that but I would be surprised if Melton played into that much. Shaq will be our defensive PG and Canaan our offensive PG. The lineups surrounding them will probably be shuffled around to cover for their shortcoming. Like we will see more of Booker and Warren with Harrison since they provide more offense and we'll see more Jackson, Bridges, and Ariza with Canaan to provide more defense.

I don't think we'll see Ariza used as a wing that often and when we do it will situational. Ariza, Anderson, and Bender will play PF and if Bender is off, they will probably each see 20 or so minutes at PF. I think we'll see Bender at C more than has been discussed. I know Igor has said he'll be a stretch PF but the playing time just isnt there. He is the only 4 who can play the 5 that we have also. Anderson is too slow and weak, Ariza is way too small, and Chandler is too old to be relied on for more than 50 games a year. Holmes might see time there but that will probably be situational. Bender can guard a lot of opposing bigs. He won't be great at it but this will be his last chance to show the team he's worth keeping beyond this season, he needs to earn anything over 8-10 minutes of garbage time.
 

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If Harrison is the best we have at the point, this team is in serious trouble.
 

AzStevenCal

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If Harrison is the best we have at the point, this team is in serious trouble.

We won a grand total of 68 games over the past 3 seasons so yeah, this team is in serious trouble. And we'd still be in trouble even if we traded for one of the semi-available PG's out there (such as Beverley, Rozier, Jones, Dinwiddie etc). We need to find or develop a good point guard. But just wanting a good point guard doesn't make one magically appear. So, while we'd all love to go from worst to first, building a team almost always takes time. The worst thing this team can do is to try and take a shortcut.
 

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The last successful rebuild was when the Suns traded away Marbury and Penny to create cap room to sign Nash. I don't believe that team finished last in the standings but they did only win 20 some odd games, I think it was 29, but the wins weren't important. We used the cap space to sign Nash and traded off the lottery pick we got for being terrible in that last year without Nash. Then we went on to be the talk of the league and win 62 games before finally succumbing to the Spurs in the Western Conference Finals. Before that season though most thought we could be a playoff team, maybe, but no one predicted we would finish with a franchise best record, tying the franchise best, making the western conference finals, finishing with the best record in the west, and have an MVP on the roster. Since then we've failed to rebuild with and without Nash. We couldn't successfully retool after Amare left and we struggled to bottom out without Nash.

We finally hit bottom last year and added a player who was worth the #1 over all pick in a draft with lots of talented prospects. We didn't get a Kwame Brown or Anthony Bennett, at least it doesn't appear that happened. We already have some quality young prospects to pair with that potential franchise altering player in Ayton but no matter if we had a good PG or not, we're not a playoff team this year and that's ok. We should be better than last year simply because we aren't playing for pingpong balls. It will be a long season but now is not the time to lose any trade assets we may possess to win 38 games instead of 32. Getting to 32 wins should be a good thing that shows improvement. I think the goal for the team should be putting 50+ loss seasons behind us and that's possible. It may not be that high but it is realistic, with or without a move for a PG.

Lets see what our guys can do before selling low on our players to bring in someone who may not make much of a difference. No one on our team has much trade value because we were the worst team in the league last year and a lot of our players were part of that. Those that weren't either can't be traded or shouldn't be traded. Ayton, Bridges, Okobo, and Melton shouldn't and Ariza, Anderson, and Holmes can't be dealt yet. You can't trade a player acquired in a trade for 60 days unless they are traded by themselves and off season signings can't be dealt until December 15th.

Chandler isn't bringing anything of value back and neither is Daniels. Warren shouldn't be dealt simply to deal him. The rest are our core, Booker, Jackson, Bender (maybe), or have no value Harrison, Reed, Bender (again). Trading our own pick would be foolish and the Bucks pick may be good, it seems all of our picks gain value the second they leave our hands. There isn't a Steve Nash to be had so we need to be patient. A lot of us fans dealt with tanking better than the growing pains of progress on the way up. We are headed up now also, so long as we keep our young talent and assets so we can spend some money next off-season to fill the holes that this team shows this season. We should noy sacrifice our future flexibility for a stop gap that will get us 5 more wins this year so we can pick around #12 or #13 instead of #8. We will need to sacrifice that flexibility to do something like that also. Is a PG this year not worth having a draft pick next year? That's basically our choice if we hope to add anyone reportedly available.
 
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JCSunsfan

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The last successful rebuild was when the Suns traded away Marbury and Penny to create cap room to sign Nash. I don't believe that team finished last in the standings but they did only win 20 some odd games, I think it was 29, but the wins weren't important. We used the cap space to sign Nash and traded off the lottery pick we got for being terrible in that last year without Nash. Then we went on to be the talk of the league and win 62 games before finally succumbing to the Spurs in the Western Conference Finals. Before that season though most thought we could be a playoff team, maybe, but no one predicted we would finish with a franchise best record, tying the franchise best, making the western conference finals, finishing with the best record in the west, and have an MVP on the roster. Since then we've failed to rebuild with and without Nash. We couldn't successfully retool after Amare left and we struggled to bottom out without Nash.

We finally hit bottom last year and added a player who was worth the #1 over all pick in a draft with lots of talented prospects. We didn't get a Kwame Brown or Anthony Bennett, at least it doesn't appear that happened. We already have some quality young prospects to pair with that potential franchise altering player in Ayton but no matter if we had a good PG or not, we're not a playoff team this year and that's ok. We should be better than last year simply because we aren't playing for pingpong balls. It will be a long season but now is not the time to lose any trade assets we may possess to win 38 games instead of 32. Getting to 32 wins should be a good thing that shows improvement. I think the goal for the team should be putting 50+ loss seasons behind us and that's possible. It may not be that high but it is realistic, with or without a move for a PG.

Lets see what our guys can do before selling low on our players to bring in someone who may not make much of a difference. No one on our team has much trade value because we were the worst team in the league last year and a lot of our players were part of that. Those that weren't either can't be traded or shouldn't be traded. Ayton, Bridges, Okobo, and Melton shouldn't and Ariza, Anderson, and Holmes can't be dealt yet. You can't trade a player acquired in a trade for 60 days unless they are traded by themselves and off season signings can't be dealt until December 15th.

Chandler isn't bringing anything of value back and neither is Daniels. Warren shouldn't be dealt simply to deal him. The rest are our core, Booker, Jackson, Bender (maybe), or have no value Harrison, Reed, Bender (again). Trading our own pick would be foolish and the Bucks pick may be good, it seems all of our picks gain value the second they leave our hands. There isn't a Steve Nash to be had so we need to be patient. A lot of us fans dealt with tanking better than the growing pains of progress on the way up. We are headed up now also, so long as we keep our young talent and assets so we can spend some money next off-season to fill the holes that this team shows this season. We should noy sacrifice our future flexibility for a stop gap that will get us 5 more wins this year so we can pick around #12 or #13 instead of #8. We will need to sacrifice that flexibility to do something like that also. Is a PG this year not worth having a draft pick next year? That's basically our choice if we hope to add anyone reportedly available.
I think this assessment is good. I am pretty well convinced that the next player we need is also the final big piece we need. It’s a point guard and he is not likely going to come from the draft. We need a quality mature player to lead this team from that position.

So he will come through a trade or free agency. In both cases, our picks are fodder for trade and not for use. First round picks have cap holds. We would be better off in free agency next summer with no first round picks at all. So I am not getting attached to those picks. Their best use is in trade not keeping them.
 

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I expect to see JJ bringing the ball up some like he did at the end of the season. Technically some PG by him.

So I am not getting attached to those picks. Their best use is in trade not keeping them.
As long as when use them to get a top tier PG. I don't want us to use them for a stop gap.
 

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I don't care if we use the pick or trade it. As long as we get fair value for it. Fair value is a player that won't cost a ton for the next couple of seasons. That eliminates rentals and stop gaps for the most part. Unless someone has 2-3 years on their contract, we shouldn't be interested and even then they need to be cheap.
 

ColdPickleNachos

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FWIW, after posting this I read the recap on BSOTS by Sidery. (I didn't want to be influenced by other opinions before putting mine down.) He seemed to agree on Ayton and Jackson (these were obvious takeaways) and also that Harrison looked like the best option as the starting point guard, but actually spent a decent amount of time on Bender as one of the positives.

Just goes to remind me that you can show the same thing to two different people and get two different reactions. I thought Bender looked timid, and he liked that he played within himself. I'd prefer he be right in the end!

I'm officially claiming a scouting victory on this one.
 
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