Pistons @ Suns 3-21-14

[sunsfan88]

I know this will be called a disappointing loss if we get beat but I look at their roster and then I look at our roster and I have no idea how we're even in the game. I laughed at the Dragic for MVP chants a few weeks ago but maybe he deserves some consideration for all those times he has saved us.

That's why being good on paper isn't the end be all. 2013 Lakers are another example of that.

On paper Detroit may be the better team (I don't agree but that's not the point I'm making here) but we are the better team and that's why we have the much, much better record.

 

[sunsfan88]

You sound like Eddie Johnson but I disagree with both of you. We aren't "letting" anything, we're being dominated by a better team. They have a worse record than us but the NBA is all about match-ups and the Pistons, like most big teams, are a match-up nightmare for us. In truth, it's the Pistons that have allowed an inferior team to hang around. If they had made their free throws this game would have been over already.

That doesn't matter. Miami and OKC (without Perkins) are both much smaller than Detroit, does that mean the Heat & OKC would be the inferior team in games against the Pistons? Absolutely not.

 

[Catlover]

That's why being good on paper isn't the end be all. 2013 Lakers are another example of that.

On paper Detroit may be the better team (I don't agree but that's not the point I'm making here) but we are the better team and that's why we have the much, much better record.

You're just making my point. I agree we're the better "team". It makes no sense when you look at their roster and compare it to ours though. The results over a season clearly show we're better than them but when you play a team you don't swap records and call it a day. The game on the court is decided by match-ups and we match-up poorly with Detroit. By record we should win by 30 points but their advantages down low make it a contest.

 

[Catlover]

That doesn't matter. Miami and OKC (without Perkins) are both much smaller than Detroit, does that mean the Heat & OKC would be the inferior team in games against the Pistons? Absolutely not.

Nowhere in my post did I suggest that smaller teams are necessarily inferior to big teams.

MATCH-UPS. Need I say more?

 

[desertdawg]

Put your claws back in your paws, we won right?

 

[Catlover]

If Gasol's injury is significant tonight's win might actually mean something more than just a notch in the win column. I thought they'd end up out of our reach but maybe not if they lose Gasol. We'll see.

 

[desertdawg]

If Gasol's injury is significant tonight's win might actually mean something more than just a notch in the win column. I thought they'd end up out of our reach but maybe not if they lose Gasol. We'll see.

Weren't we all telling that one guy Gasol is fragile??

 

[Catlover]

Weren't we all telling that one guy Gasol is fragile??

Wrong Gasol, I think. I'm talking about Memphis who is above us in the playoff race. Marc appeared to sprain his ankle tonight in their loss which perhaps opens the door for us to get back into contention. We weren't completely out of it but the odds were slim given our remaining schedule.

 

[desertdawg]

Wrong Gasol, I think. I'm talking about Memphis who is above us in the playoff race. Marc appeared to sprain his ankle tonight in their loss which perhaps opens the door for us to get back into contention. We weren't completely out of it but the odds were slim given our remaining schedule.

They should all have "this end up" on one side of their jerseys, and fragile on the other.

 

[Catlover]

They should all have "this end up" on one side of their jerseys, and fragile on the other.

lol

 

[sunsfan88]

Nowhere in my post did I suggest that smaller teams are necessarily inferior to big teams.

MATCH-UPS. Need I say more?

But you are saying that the reason the Pistons match up well against the Suns is because the Pistons are bigger than the Suns, correct?

 

[sunsfan88]

Dragic is averaging a career-high 20.4 points on career highs of 51 percent shooting and nearly 42 percent on 3-pointers. Only Dragic and Kevin Durant have 50/40 shooting averages (.549 and .403 for Durant)

 

[Catlover]

But you are saying that the reason the Pistons match up well against the Suns is because the Pistons are bigger than the Suns, correct?

Yes their size is a problem for us but it's a combination of size, talent and the positions they play that create the matchup difficulties, not to mention the sheer number of quality bigs they have.

Singler has size on Dragic but the advantage goes both ways and I like the tradeoff of Goran's quickness. The problem is that Detroit throws multiple big guys at us that are strong, move well and can post up plus Josh can be a problem inside and out. Healthy we should still beat them but the difference on paper (meaning our record vs theirs) is much greater than the difference on the court.

 

[sunsfan88]

Yes their size is a problem for us but it's a combination of size, talent and the positions they play that create the matchup difficulties, not to mention the sheer number of quality bigs they have.

Singler has size on Dragic but the advantage goes both ways and I like the tradeoff of Goran's quickness. The problem is that Detroit throws multiple big guys at us that are strong, move well andcan post up plus Josh can be a problem inside and out. Healthy we should still beat them but the difference on paper (meaning our record vs theirs) is much greater than the difference on the court.

Yea but I can say the same thing about OKC and Miami if they were to play the Pistons and yet everyone in the world would expect Pistons to lose 10 times out of 10 to them.

Pistons have more talented big men than us, and we don't have many (if any) talented big men but I don't think that means that they have a favorable match up against us.

 

[Catlover]

Yea but I can say the same thing about OKC and Miami if they were to play the Pistons and yet everyone in the world would expect Pistons to lose 10 times out of 10 to them.

Pistons have more talented big men than us, and we don't have many (if any) talented big men but I don't think that means that they have a favorable match up against us.

How in the world are you disagreeing with me? I'm not making some outrageous claim, I'm simply saying that in my opinion we did not roll over against our opponent tonight. They are a more difficult matchup for us then would be expected by their record.

Basketball is very much a game of match-ups. Not all teams are created equal and the best team might routinely struggle with the 18th best team and yet dominate the 2nd best team every time they face them. Again, it's about matchups. If you think Frye and Plumlee match up well with Monroe and Drummond then say so, otherwise I think you ought to be agreeing with me.

 

[sunsfan88]

How in the world are you disagreeing with me? I'm not making some outrageous claim, I'm simply saying that in my opinion we did not roll over against our opponent tonight. They are a more difficult matchup for us then would be expected by their record.

Basketball is very much a game of match-ups. Not all teams are created equal and the best team might routinely struggle with the 18th best team and yet dominate the 2nd best team every time they face them. Again, it's about matchups. If you think Frye and Plumlee match up well with Monroe and Drummond then say so, otherwise I think you ought to be agreeing with me.

Yea I think I totally misunderstood what you have been saying cause I agree with the last line for sure (as shown in the 2nd post of this thread).

 

[sunsfan88]

Paul Coro ‏@paulcoro
Hornacek told two courtside kids that they could shoot free throws better than this. DET is 10 for 26. PHX is 21 for 31.

 

[JS22]

Paul Coro ‏@paulcoro
Hornacek told two courtside kids that they could shoot free throws better than this. DET is 10 for 26. PHX is 21 for 31.

Haha. I wonder if that's when he was shown on TV drinking a Gatorade and laughing it up with some fans with a few minutes to go.

Some wouldn't like that. But I think it's a nice change of pace after Mike PANIC!!!!! D'antoni.

 

[Catlover]

Haha. I wonder if that's when he was shown on TV drinking a Gatorade and laughing it up with some fans with a few minutes to go.

Some wouldn't like that. But I think it's a nice change of pace after Mike PANIC!!!!! D'antoni.

I love his court-side demeanor. He always reminds me of that commercial "never let them see you sweat". He's always calm and composed even when he's sending a message to his players. He has that quizzical look he gives them when they've done something stupid and so many more mild facial changes that tell them a story and all without the histrionics of so many other coaches.

 

[BC867]

Yes their size is a problem for us but it's a combination of size, talent and the positions they play that create the matchup difficulties, not to mention the sheer number of quality bigs they have.

There are really three seasons in the NBA. The first, which lasts about 2/3 of the regular season. Then the last 1/3. Then the playoffs.

As has been posted, power and size are rewarded more by the refs during the last two stages. That is why the Suns had to work hard for a victory vs. an "inferior" team. It takes its toll compared to teams which win the easy games . . . easily.

 

[Superbone]

Drummond/Monroe vs Frye/Plumlee...

Lol.

If you're going to do that, then you have to do this:

Dragic/Bledsoe vs Singler/Jennings

Lol.

 

[devilalum]

If you're going to do that, then you have to do this:

Dragic/Bledsoe vs Singler/Jennings

Lol.

And this is why the Suns won.

 

[Catlover]

If you're going to do that, then you have to do this:

Dragic/Bledsoe vs Singler/Jennings

Lol.

Dragic/Bledsoe/Ish/Green vs Singler/Jennings/Bynum/Stuckey and the advantage is still ours but just how big of an advantage hinges on which Green shows up. When Green is on, our quartet of guards is too much for most teams and the pace at which they play and score helps negate what we give up at the two power spots. With Miles looking more and more like the Plumlee of old though we're only a Frye return to form away from holding our own at the 4 and 5 spots too.

It's just too bad we couldn't get Miles healthy and Eric back on the court a month ago. Them's the breaks.

 

[Mainstreet]

If you're going to do that, then you have to do this:

Dragic/Bledsoe vs Singler/Jennings

Lol.

I think the Suns have to win games with their back court as you point out. This is their strength. So, it is not just the Suns front line versus the opposing team's front line. It is the Suns back court versus the opposing team's back court where they usually have an advantage.

I found this gem below in a Paul Coro article at azcentral dated 3-22-14.

Hornacek's Suns teams from his playing days used to get their ball to their center, now-assistant coach Mark West, early in games to engage him and reward him for his bigger roles as a defender and rebounder.

Center Miles Plumlee often gets most of his offensive chances in the first few minutes of games too.

"Sometimes we do it just to get him going, get something inside early and see if he can get a shot on one of those guys," Hornacek said. "As the game goes on, we don't run a lot of other post-ups for him. A lot of teams do that but sometimes we feel like he's got a good matchup on a guy. Early in the season when we saw that and he was scoring, we'll go to him a few extra times. We've just got to not force anything. Our strength is the ball-handlers and coming off pick-and-rolls and guys who get their stuff off that. We've got to make sure we don't get away from that."

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...-archie-goodwin-providing-fresh-legs/6728311/

 

[Superbone]

Good stuff, Main!