Playoffs - Clippers @ Suns Game 2 Thread 5/10/2006- Yahoo -ESPN previews

[jbeecham]

Clips also did a good job of collapsing on Diaw and forcing some turnovers.

 

[elindholm]

Yeah, Diaw was pressing. Unfortunately, the Clippers have figured out that he's the Suns' second-best player, so they're focusing on him a lot more.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Cheese, weren't you just talking earlier about people overreacting in wins and losses?

It seems like your putting this whole game on Marion.

Nothing new here. Every loss is Marion's fault.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Yeah, Diaw was pressing. Unfortunately, the Clippers have figured out that he's the Suns' second-best player, so they're focusing on him a lot more.

I noticed he was up against Brand a lot today, and that really took him out of the game. Against Kaman or Radmanovic he was able to get by and make things happen but against Brand he isn't nearly as effective on the drive and that really hampers his options.

The worst thing about Marion being largely ineffective outside 10ft (and often even within!) is that they're not forced to honor him. His shot is looking just absolutely terrible; if I werre Dunleavy i'd let him shoot that all day and sag down off him.

All in all this was a pretty disappointing game, but truth be told I semi-expected it. I felt Bell was the only one that was still fighting hard out there in the 2nd half. The energy level just wasn't there and a lot of credit has to go to the clippers for setting the tempo and hitting the glass, but I also feel that the suns were just burnt out. Not just physically, but emotionally as well. They've been on a high for a while and were due for a bit of a let down. I expect them to come out with a little more fire on Friday to try and take back home court advantage.

Oh and Eddie is just a huge liability out there. He can't hit anything right now and isn't really doing anything out there. There's no reason for him to be in the rotation right now.

 

[cly2tw]

To Marion's defense, coach might've wanted to have him draw Brand out of the paint, but failed.

Everybody including Nash was cold in the first half. Bell and TT came to life a bit. But that's just not enough. Well, our scramble defense were just prone to giving up off. rebounds. Brand got at least 3 of his off. reb. after Marion fronted him in the middle area of the paint. When the shot went off, the off. rebound was his for sure. And it didn't help that both Cassell and Mobley got so confident scoring. Mobley torched Marion with fallaways consequetively in the fourth, extinguishing any lingering hope for our comeback.

We might need to use Grant a bit more early to have us stay in the man-up defense while have Brand work a little more to tire him out for the end phase of the game.

 

[HeavyB3]

I was at the game, I came back depresed.

I do think the Clippers need to use this as their logo.

 

[jibikao]

This game has sucked since the first Q. The crowd couldn't get into it. Man, Suns crowd can easily be spoiled. No scoring, no cheering?

It was a bad idea to get Marion going early because it's been semi-proven that Marion can't fire up in the first half. The stats TNT showed something like 35-36% shooting first half and over 50% in second half.

We dug a huge hole in 1st Q and just couldn't climb out.

 

[jibikao]

Who here is disappointed in Eddie House in the playoffs? I really expected more from him.

I know House hasn't played much but when he plays, he doesn't give coach D enough reason to keep him. His shooting has been off (except game 7) and his defense isn't any better. What else can he do?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Nothing new here. Every loss is Marion's fault.

NOW YOUR'E GEWTTING IT SANDERS!

Are you seriously gonna tell me that Marion - the guy who aervaged 22 and 12 on 52% shooting in the rgeular season has had a GOOD postseason, avergaing 4 points less, 2 rebounds less and shooting 43 percent? Just face facts, while the whole team last night sucked, Marion SUCKED AGAIN - something the whole team HASN'T done for the entirety of the playoffs.

And this is a place to vent - sue me and the rest of the people sick of Marion fetal position play in the playoffs - just because you are apparently head over heels in love with the guy and can see no wrong, doesn't mean the rest of us have to bury our heads in the sand and believe he's just as good a player in the postseason as he is during the regular season.

Why can't you just admit that? I mean what's the matter Colonel Sanders... Chicken!?

And, and get Eddie House a second class bus ticket with his seat next to the toilet out of here as fast as possible. He know makes me want to puke. Another great regular season player, no show in the playoffs.

 

[Chaplin]

NOW YOUR'E GEWTTING IT SANDERS!

Are you seriously gonna tell me that Marion - the guy who aervaged 22 and 12 on 52% shooting in the rgeular season has had a GOOD postseason, avergaing 4 points less, 2 rebounds less and shooting 43 percent? Just face facts, while the whole team last night sucked, Marion SUCKED AGAIN - something the whole team HASN'T done for the entirety of the playoffs.

And this is a place to vent - sue me and the rest of the people sick of Marion fetal position play in the playoffs - just because you are apparently head over heels in love with the guy and can see no wrong, doesn't mean the rest of us have to bury our heads in the sand and believe he's just as good a player in the postseason as he is during the regular season.

Why can't you just admit that? I mean what's the matter Colonel Sanders... Chicken!?

And, and get Eddie House a second class bus ticket with his seat next to the toilet out of here as fast as possible. He know makes me want to puke. Another great regular season player, no show in the playoffs.

Classic Cheese...

 

[boisesuns]

I don't think Chris ever said he didn't think Marion was not playing to his potential. The problem is, if Marion goes out and scores 30 and gets 18 boards the next game, you will still complain. "Why hasn't he done this all series?"

I think most of us agree Marion is not a superstar, but a very good player on this team. You are holding him to a standard that you even agree he can't meet, and that doesn't make and sense. We tried to run some plays through Marion, and it didn't work. Even if Marion averaged his regular season stats, we still would have lost. We needed more contrubution from the whole team.

Am I sick of Marion underperfoming in the playoffs? Sure. But am suprised? No.

All that said, Marion is very important to this team, and he's going to have to play big to keep the series going.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Cheese,

I think you should continue to annoy me and taunt me. It will work out wonderful for you. I think you should continue to troll on every thread you post on how much you hate Marion. It will have a good conclusion for you.

 

[boisesuns]

Cheese,

I think you should continue to annoy me and taunt me. It will work out wonderful for you. I think you should continue to troll on every thread you post on how much you hate Marion. It will have a good conclusion for you.

You must be registered for see images

Flex those Moderator muscles.

 

[elindholm]

Time for another Nash photoshop project!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Cheese,

I think you should continue to annoy me and taunt me. It will work out wonderful for you. I think you should continue to troll on every thread you post on how much you hate Marion. It will have a good conclusion for you.

are you really threatening to ban me because I vent about Shawn Marion? Are you that thin-skinned Sanders? Good lord man.

 

[nowagimp]

I noticed he was up against Brand a lot today, and that really took him out of the game. Against Kaman or Radmanovic he was able to get by and make things happen but against Brand he isn't nearly as effective on the drive and that really hampers his options.

The worst thing about Marion being largely ineffective outside 10ft (and often even within!) is that they're not forced to honor him. His shot is looking just absolutely terrible; if I were Dunleavy i'd let him shoot that all day and sag down off him.

When Boris and shawn are in the game at the same time and shawn is not shooting well, the spacing really suffers. Brand was on Boris, but help was also close by in the event Boris tried to go inside. Thats how they forced the turnovers on Boris. This is why the suns need shooters on the floor with Boris or any penetrator. Marion, as good as he is in other parts of the game, is not a shooter that demands defensive spacing. The clips really seemed to pack the lane after it was obvious that no one, especially Marion, was hitting the 3. Also, the offensive rebounding massacre probably was linked to all the extra help given on Brand after his 40pt night in game 1. All the doubling leaves the boards open and players like cutino mobley(23 pts, 9/16) wide open. I think that the game one plan with less help on Brand -let him go off some- would leave the suns less susceptible to offensive rebounding and big games from guys like Mobley, Kaman. Lets be serious, Raja can and has shut mobley down. I'd rather have Brand wheezing in the 4th quarter with 38 pts, than all those other guys feeling confident with all the touches.

I also think the suns need to force Kaman to play D. With Brand on Boris, Kaman had to play Marion or JR. I'd like to force the matchup between TT and Kaman, its a real good one for the suns as TT can take him inside and outside. If Dunleavy switches Brand onto TT after a few FG's, Diaw will be able to make them pay by driving the ball. It appeared that Dunleavy was avoiding this matchup, preferred to put Kaman on JR or Marion who was missing alot. Maybe if TT started, it would force the matchup or force Dunleavy to sit Kaman down to start the games. The key for the clips is to get out in front using their bigs down low and then to run only on good opportunities, otherwise use the shot clock up and go down low.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

People see what they want to see due to bias for or against a player. I prefer to live in reality. The best example was the game where everyone was complaining about Marion missing layups so I went and counted and he had missed 3 layups to Nash's 2 missed layups.

People see what they want. 17.8 PPG and 9.7 rebounds a game are decent numbers. Certainly he is down in his production, but I don't believe a 4 point drop in production is the reason for Marion to get the rabid hatred he gets here like no other Suns player. I won't even touch about complaining about him getting 10 boards a game instead of 12. That's just silly.


The reason the Suns lost last night is because no one would rebound and box out. It's that simple. Not just Marion but everyone across the board just played badly. When you lose that badly, you just have to hope that the Suns get it together by Friday night.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

are you really threatening to ban me because I vent about Shawn Marion? Are you that thin-skinned Sanders? Good lord man.

No I pretty much didn't appreciate your entire last post. You are very close to getting a break from ASFN so I suggest you drop it and move on.

 

[jibikao]

I don't think Chris ever said he didn't think Marion was not playing to his potential. The problem is, if Marion goes out and scores 30 and gets 18 boards the next game, you will still complain. "Why hasn't he done this all series?"

I think most of us agree Marion is not a superstar, but a very good player on this team. You are holding him to a standard that you even agree he can't meet, and that doesn't make and sense. We tried to run some plays through Marion, and it didn't work. Even if Marion averaged his regular season stats, we still would have lost. We needed more contrubution from the whole team.

Am I sick of Marion underperfoming in the playoffs? Sure. But am suprised? No.

All that said, Marion is very important to this team, and he's going to have to play big to keep the series going.

The problem is Marion wants to think he is a superstar. Here are some quotes I found:

[SIZE=-2]"If I'm averaging 20 and 10 and I'm 6-7 and 225, am I just supposed to do that?" Marion said late in the regular season as he lay on a hotel bed playing handheld electronic poker. "How the hell do I not get the same credit as Garnett and Tim Duncan and those guys? I'm 225, barely. Is this just what we've come to expect of Shawn?"

Marion sat up and put the game aside as he continued.

"It's frustrating because I've been doing this since I got here. I've been playing with Jason Kidd, Stephon Marbury and Steve Nash and been able to adjust my game to everyone."

Marion considers himself a Most Valuable Player candidate, but only one of 127 voters put him on the top-five ballot. Nash ran away with a repeat honor. It's often argued that the Suns are nothing without Nash and they survive Marion's rare misses (he played in 482 of 492 games in the past six seasons).

[/SIZE][SIZE=-2]"Guys who are doing what I do are going in and demanding stuff," Marion said. "I'm not doing that. I'm not (a jerk). I want to win. At times, maybe I should be (a jerk) because that's the only way I'm going to get respect. I should be getting more respect at this point of my career. I get more respect from my peers."

[/SIZE]http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...marion0508.html

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't think Chris ever said he didn't think Marion was not playing to his potential. The problem is, if Marion goes out and scores 30 and gets 18 boards the next game, you will still complain.

1) UNFORTUNATELY - it looks like we'll never get to see if that's true or not.

2) If you remember that Dallas series last year, you
ll see that I came on here whooping it up when Marion played well - then I went on to say "keep it up and keep shutting my ass up!"

As far aas holding him to a different level, sorry, but holding him to play as well as he did in the regular season isn't looking for some other level - it's called showing up - period.

Banning an AVOWED Suns fan because he has a different opinion than you is just freaking ********. This is a message/discussion board, a place to vent, celebrate and discuss - what a joke.

 

[Cheesebeef]

No I pretty much didn't appreciate your entire last post. You are very close to getting a break from ASFN so I suggest you drop it and move on.

why, because of "Colonel Sanders" thing? It was a joke Chris - Spaceballs - chill out dude.

I mean you can say I hate Marion, but I can't in turn say you love him? Seems like a pretty big double standard.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

During the regular season, Marion is correct on those quotes.

During the playoffs, not so much (though his numbers the last two years in the playoffs are MUCH better than Garnett's. LOL).

Maybe he will hear all the doubters and turn into Super Marion for a few games like he did during the regular season. Unfortunately the way we played defense and rebounded last night, even 30 points from Marion would have been a loss. That's the depressing thing.

 

[boisesuns]

[/SIZE][SIZE=-2]"Guys who are doing what I do are going in and demanding stuff," Marion said. "I'm not doing that. I'm not (a jerk). I want to win. At times, maybe I should be (a jerk) because that's the only way I'm going to get respect. I should be getting more respect at this point of my career. I get more respect from my peers."

 

[Cheesebeef]

consider this dropped. Let's Hope Marion actually shows up for a FULL GAME (for the first time) and the rest of the team shows up as well and we take back homecourt on Friday.

 

[boisesuns]

1) UNFORTUNATELY - it looks like we'll never get to see if that's true or not.

2) If you remember that Dallas series last year, you
ll see that I came on here whooping it up when Marion played well - then I went on to say "keep it up and keep shutting my ass up!"

As far aas holding him to a different level, sorry, but holding him to play as well as he did in the regular season isn't looking for some other level - it's called showing up - period.

Banning an AVOWED Suns fan because he has a different opinion than you is just freaking ********. This is a message/discussion board, a place to vent, celebrate and discuss - what a joke.

I definalty agree with you as far as wanting him to show up. I think the things the Suns need to advance in this series, are bigger than Marion showing up though. We just can't stop anyone inside, and when our shots aren't falling, it's even worse.

I wonder what your assesment of the rest of the teams play is. Marion didn't have a good game, but others didn't far much better.

I'm not a Marion defender. I cringe every time he takes a shot. But this game was not all on Marion's shoulders.