Playoffs: Suns @ Nuggets Saturday game thread 4-29-2023- Game 1

[Hoop Head]

I just don't understand the focus on depth in this matchup. Denver has shown about as much depth as us in these playoffs and that is with us having one of our top bench players out in Payne. They may beat us in the depth department, but it won't be anything like the Clippers depth for instance.

The altitude plays a big role. Much harder to play guys 40+ minutes in Denver than here in Phoenix or LA. Denver is accustomed to it, Suns aren't.

Plus they have a stronger starting 5 and more legit players than we do. No one other than Booker and KD would start if you added them to the Nuggets roster. CP3 and Ayton wouldn't start ahead of Murray or Jokic, but they'd be solid bench players there however Torrey Craig would be the 9th best player on their team, at most. No one else on the Suns would be in the rotation except maybe Payne, if he were healthy, but he'd also be their 9th or 10th man. That's why depth is an issue.

 

[GatorAZ]

I just don't understand the focus on depth in this matchup. Denver has shown about as much depth as us in these playoffs and that is with us having one of our top bench players out in Payne. They may beat us in the depth department, but it won't be anything like the Clippers depth for instance.

Fair point. I looked up minutes for Denver vs Minnesota and while nobody played close to Book/KD’s minutes, they only really play 7 guys. Braun was 8th in minutes and most came in a game 1 blowout. It probably has more to do with Payne being hurt but CP3 played more minutes than Jokic in their respective series.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I just don't understand the focus on depth in this matchup. Denver has shown about as much depth as us in these playoffs and that is with us having one of our top bench players out in Payne. They may beat us in the depth department, but it won't be anything like the Clippers depth for instance.

Maybe in the playoffs but most of us remember our two late season victories over Denver and I'm sure that's playing into the thinking here about depth. We struggled to beat them even though we were basically whole and they were without all 5 starters in one game and I think 4 starters were out for the other. They sure as heck looked a lot deeper than us on those two nights.

And given the altitude issue, I'm kind of surprised there's anyone unconcerned by our lack of depth.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

The altitude plays a big role. Much harder to play guys 40+ minutes in Denver than here in Phoenix or LA. Denver is accustomed to it, Suns aren't.

Plus they have a stronger starting 5 and more legit players than we do. No one other than Booker and KD would start if you added them to the Nuggets roster. CP3 and Ayton wouldn't start ahead of Murray or Jokic, but they'd be solid bench players there however Torrey Craig would be the 9th best player on their team, at most. No one else on the Suns would be in the rotation except maybe Payne, if he were healthy, but he'd also be their 9th or 10th man. That's why depth is an issue.

Good point about the altitude. Guys will have a much harder time logging 44ish minutes on the road in this series.

 

[Phrazbit]

That was when he really had to be their 2nd best player. With Murray and Porter playing he’s the 4th.

I have no idea what happens in this series.

This is a completely different matchup. In 2021 he had been in Denver for like 2-3 months as he was acquired at the trade deadline. He was also their #2 option and is now their #4 since Murray and MPJ were injured during our series. In addition to that, the only forward we have from that series is Torrey Craig, so it's really an entirely different matchup. Jokic vs Ayton and Monty vs Malone are the only similarities between these 2 series. Everything else has changed.

It is wild how there is this collective delusion that Porter was out. It's not just here where I see the mistake made, it's all over.

Porter played in that series. He was healthy. It was him that we brutalized on defense. He is a terrible defender.

Gordon scares me this year far more than in 2021 because Gordon is more acclimated to the team and we had a Crowder in there to scrap with him and frustrate him.

Murray did miss that series but he had been out for a long while and Denver's winning percentage didn't suffer. Will Barton was the other guy that a big deal was made of them being injured, but he returned during the series, he played 3 games.

 

[Hoop Head]

It is wild how there is this collective delusion that Porter was out. It's not just here where I see the mistake made, it's all over.

Porter played in that series. He was healthy. It was him that we brutalized on defense. He is a terrible defender.

Gordon scares me this year far more than in 2021 because Gordon is more acclimated to the team and we had a Crowder in there to scrap with him and frustrate him.

Murray did miss that series but he had been out for a long while and Denver's winning percentage didn't suffer. Will Barton was the other guy that a big deal was made of them being injured, but he returned during the series, he played 3 games.

I know MPJ played some but he was hobbled. He was also much younger then and is more developed now. I did think he missed a game but I thought he played most of the series, 3 of 4, but looking back he played all 4. He did suffer an injury in game 1 though, tweaking his back. Found this, he was listed on the injury report throughout the series, despite playing.

Michael Porter Jr. Gets Critical Injury Update After Game 1 Loss

This is worrisome for the Nuggets. Hope MPJ is okay!

clutchpoints.com

And a second source...

Michael Porter Jr. tweaked back in Nuggets' Game 1 loss to Suns

Michael Porter Jr. scored 12 first-half points, abusing Suns switches. He appeared in halftime warmups with a wrap around his back.

arizonasports.com

 

[Germz249]

Elevation talk and cold weather talk..

We should have an open roof.. play with the heat and let opponents deal with the same thing we go through when it gets hot. I thought that would be an advantage for us during the Sun Devil Stadium days.

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

Has there been any explanation yet on why Craig seemed to get lost on the bench last game? Hope he is not hurt.

 

[elindholm]

Denver in 5. The Suns showed in the last series that they aren't very good. Even if Payne can contribute, the roster goes only eight deep. This board underrates the Nuggets for some reason, as if it's a fluke that they finished with the best record in the conference. Denver has been the best in the West all year, they're healthy, and they know each other as a team.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Denver in 5. The Suns showed in the last series that they aren't very good. Even if Payne can contribute, the roster goes only eight deep. This board underrates the Nuggets for some reason, as if it's a fluke that they finished with the best record in the conference. Denver has been the best in the West all year, they're healthy, and they know each other as a team.

Nuggets are great offensively, not so much on defense tho

 

[JCSunsfan]

The altitude plays a big role. Much harder to play guys 40+ minutes in Denver than here in Phoenix or LA. Denver is accustomed to it, Suns aren't.

Plus they have a stronger starting 5 and more legit players than we do. No one other than Booker and KD would start if you added them to the Nuggets roster. CP3 and Ayton wouldn't start ahead of Murray or Jokic, but they'd be solid bench players there however Torrey Craig would be the 9th best player on their team, at most. No one else on the Suns would be in the rotation except maybe Payne, if he were healthy, but he'd also be their 9th or 10th man. That's why depth is an issue.

The Suns have plenty of time to arrive in Denver a day or two early and adjust to the altitude. After that the teams are on the same schedule.

 

[Mainstreet]

Has there been any explanation yet on why Craig seemed to get lost on the bench last game? Hope he is not hurt.

I haven't heard anything yet. It's puzzling because he has been playing well.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Denver in 5. The Suns showed in the last series that they aren't very good. Even if Payne can contribute, the roster goes only eight deep. This board underrates the Nuggets for some reason, as if it's a fluke that they finished with the best record in the conference. Denver has been the best in the West all year, they're healthy, and they know each other as a team.

I can't argue with this even though it wouldn't be my guess. Keyword is guess. This Suns team is just an unknown. Were the clippers much better than we realized without Kahwi and Pg? I think so. Westbrook unleashed can keep a team quite respectable. Were the Suns still feeling things out? Obviously the Suns seemed almost in preseason mode, experimenting with various lineups etc. How will this Suns team match up with Denver? I have no idea, neither team played at full strength in matchups this year.

Bottom line. I have no idea and no expectations. It could be a sweep either direction and everything in between.

My gut says we don't beat the Nuggets, and if we do, we don't beat the Warriors.

The Warriors will handle the Lakers easily if the Lakers get by Memphis. If Memphis pulls a miracle and beats the Lakers, the Warriors will beat Memphis, but it will take a physical toll on tha Warriors.

 

[Covert Rain]

The entire series might come down to how well Ayton plays against Joker. You can't stop Joker. He is going to do his thing. Ayton needs to make him work on both end of the floor. Make him earn everything he gets. I am hoping that Durant and his length also can be distruptive for all those easy passes Joker gives to guys driving to the hoop. There is just nothing to guage how these two teams are going to play against each other.

 

[TJ]

For those just reading the headline, that comment is from a couple of years ago. Ayton usually does play well against Jokic but it's not like he shuts the guy down or anything. As I recall, Jokic still has the superior stats when they matchup.

You’re not going to shut down Jokic, but theres a big difference between when he scores 30 points on 28 attempts versus 30 points on 16 attempts

 

[Hoop Head]

Has there been any explanation yet on why Craig seemed to get lost on the bench last game? Hope he is not hurt.

No official explanation but his shot was off so I can see why Monty went another direction in the second half. Craig didn't score at all in the first half and then that hot 3rd quarter, where he wasn't involved, why bring him back in? He played way above his level in games 1-4 so he was due a rough night.

I wouldn't read into it much. He was cold, team got hot, why bring in a cold hand after they sat out an entire quarter? Not like we're talking about a legit starter here, Craig is a 7th or 8th man who was starting out of necessity because of the lack of depth.

 

[Germz249]

Suns in 4

 

[Proximo]

I dont believe we'll make it to game 7 if Monty doesn't extend the bench a little more. Our starters won't be able to handle 4 games in Denver playing 40+ minutes each. Denver is one of the hardest places to play road games because of the altitude. They have a real home court advantage.

We're going to need to go 9-10 deep and get production from the bench to make this a series. I'd say no less than 20 points a game off the bench to be competitive, probably 30+ to win.

We may not beat them, but it's not going to be because KD and Booker are playing 44 minutes instead of 40.

I am getting a little tired of this nonsense.

 

[AzStevenCal]

We may not beat them, but it's not going to be because KD and Booker are playing 44 minutes instead of 40.

I am getting a little tired of this nonsense.

Go from the Valley to high altitude and play a strenuous sport for 45 minutes and then tell us it's nonsense.

According to an article I found on a TV station website (9 News Denver) Dr Millan who runs the sports performance program at UC's Sports Medicine and Performance Center in Boulder that "for every 1,000 feet of elevation gain, an athlete loses 2 percent of their ability to consume oxygen and gets exhausted 4 percent faster than they normally would".

Interesting thing though is that he recommends the opposite of what I've always believed. He says the best thing a visiting team can do is show up as close to game time as possible. At that altitude an athlete will suffer from poor sleep and dehydration and it gets worse not better the longer they're there until they fully acclimate. And it takes a least 9 days to fully acclimate.

Denver is obviously a good team this year so this may not mean much but yeah, according to teamrankings.com they have the best home court advantage this season.

 

[Germz249]

Are we just over thinking this?

Are the players really that fatigue during the game? Did we have this issue years ago when we swept them? I remember watching games in the past and never thought this was an issue. In any sports. I get how it can come into play but is it really enough to make that huge of a difference.

I think if we get beat its cause they played better and has nothing to do with us getting tired.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Are we just over thinking this?

Are the players really that fatigue during the game? Did we have this issue years ago when we swept them? I remember watching games in the past and never thought this was an issue. In any sports. I get how it can come into play but is it really enough to make that huge of a difference.

I think if we get beat its cause they played better and has nothing to do with us getting tired.

No, not even close. There are literally thousands of reports that talk about what happens when you go up 3,4,5 thousand feet and engage in intense workouts. It doesn't give Denver an insurmountable advantage but the advantage is real nonetheless. And it isn't just about fatigue and dehydration within the game, it's about things such as poor sleep, muscle cramps etc. and all of that gets even worse the day after so in a playoff environment the HCA increases.

 

[Mainstreet]

Additionally, I'd like to add concerning the starters and the bench, it's more than just altitude. Players need a certain amount of rest during the game to operate at peak efficiency.

This is where the quality of the bench comes into play. Starters need rest breaks. How the bench plays while they are out is important.

Also, there are issues such as injuries and foul trouble.

The bench absolutely matters.

 

[JCSunsfan]

No, not even close. There are literally thousands of reports that talk about what happens when you go up 3,4,5 thousand feet and engage in intense workouts. It doesn't give Denver an insurmountable advantage but the advantage is real nonetheless. And it isn't just about fatigue and dehydration within the game, it's about things such as poor sleep, muscle cramps etc. and all of that gets even worse the day after so in a playoff environment the HCA increases.

A few days to adjust and the advantage goes away. All the Suns have to do is arrive a few days early. Again. This is way overrated. It matters more in the regular season where there is no time to acclimate. There are lots of ways to combat this.

BTW. Phoenix is the 4th highest NBA city by altitude. Denver, Salt Lake, and OKC, are the only cities higher.

 

[Dback Jon]

No, not even close. There are literally thousands of reports that talk about what happens when you go up 3,4,5 thousand feet and engage in intense workouts. It doesn't give Denver an insurmountable advantage but the advantage is real nonetheless. And it isn't just about fatigue and dehydration within the game, it's about things such as poor sleep, muscle cramps etc. and all of that gets even worse the day after so in a playoff environment the HCA increases.

Then again, it can be of little importance. One year NAU hosted Florida Atlantic in the FCS Playoffs - we thought going from Sea Level to 7,000' would wear them down - nope!

 

[JCSunsfan]

Then again, it can be of little importance. One year NAU hosted Florida Atlantic in the FCS Playoffs - we thought going from Sea Level to 7,000' would wear them down - nope!

Studies show it makes much less of a difference with highly trained athletes than with the normal person. Also, Denver is at 5200 feet in elevation, the big differences as far as sports performances come at higher elevations than that.