Present depth chart

[BC867]

You're right when everybody is healthy. But injuries happen. PG/C are the two positions in general which need the most depth. The other positions can be inter-changeable w/ other guys.

For ex.:

- If Bledsoe gets injured - No problem, Thomas steps in, Green plays more 2', Goodwin/Dragic play more PG
- Dragic out - basically same thing as above
- Tucker out - Marcus Morris steps into lineup, Green/Warren play more
- Markieff out - Tolliver starts , Marcus Morris backs him up
- Plumlee out - ???? ... Len starts, but Randolph suddenly has to play significant minutes, unless Markieff/Tolliver play the 5' (Both aren't rim-protectors or defenders w/ size, so we're suddenly in trouble) ...

- Basically, the Center position is 1 injury away from really hurting this team from a defensive/rim-protection standpoint. The way the team is constructed, defense/rebounding/rim-protection has to come from the center spot, since we'll probably go small a lot and the guards/forwards don't excel in those areas.

I am also not even considering that Len won't be ready to be in the rotation, like some people may think, because I have confidence in him that he can play well ... But that adds another question mark to the position potentially

Absolutely! If, as the Celtics and Lakers of the past, you have a rebounder/presence on defense on the floor to trigger the fast break, you need three real Centers on the roster.

One to start, one to back him up and a third to step in if one of them gets into foul trouble or gets hurt. That is not a luxury. That is a necessity. Especially on a Suns team that does not have a bruiser at starting or backup Power Forward.

The loss of Frye makes that do-able. We have the subtraction, now we need the addition.

 

[KloD]

I don't think we can count on anything from Alec Brown. Put him in the d-league and see if there is something there.

I do think our best best for getting an inside presence isn't through a trade or free agency, but rather developing either Plumlee, Len or both. Its also our least expensive option.

This how I feel. That, and since I am in the camp of patience is the key, I feel next off season is when this issue will be addressed. Next draft there are several big man candidates. I feel that if the Lakers place between 6-10 in the draft we have a great chance to nab a good one. If that doesn't play out and/or we can find some in FA. Just wasn't anything worth spending on this time around and we didn't have much to select in that regard in the draft.

 

[WildBB]

So, now its,

Dragic, Thomas, Ennis
Bledsoe, Green, Archie
PJ, TJ, Mook
Keef, Tolliver
Plumlee, Len, Randolph

Well, in that lineup, the starters are all legit starters (IMO). The back ups are all legit backups. End of the bench, once-in-a-blue-moon minutes guys are Ennis, Randolph and probably Archie.

Its a solid line up but needs a star player. Dragic is there, Bledsoe should be (I am assuming he will be back).

We need improvement in rebounding, rim protection, and three point shooting. I would guess you are going to see Keef shooting alot more threes this year. TJ will provide alot of offensive rebounding.

Defensive rebounding improvement HAS to come from Plumlee and Len. But there is no reason that they should not be able to do that.

We look thin at PF, but we will probably see Marcus, TJ, and PJ slide over there often. We will see if Horny's evaluation of TJ is accurate when he said that TJ defends the 4 position well. If he can do that, he will be very valuable.

A starting lineup of - Dragic, Bledsoe, PJ, Markief and Plumlee again.

B/u's can be key again Dragic/Bledsoe & Thomas, Green, TJ and Len could be a pretty dynamic 2nd team.

Marcus, Tolliver and Goodwin will mtl have to play their way in somehow.

 

[Chaplin]

Lol I wasn't sarcastically attacking your post. I was serious.

I liked Fesenko from the T-Wolves summer league team. He seems like a guy who is truly awful at anything basketball related but he's a big body who can clog up space in the paint on defense. Plus someone to push Plumlee and Len in practice.

Anyone who has at least a passing knowledge of the Phoenix Suns could see that Fesenko would easily be the most wasted pick up of the summer if it happened. That guy wouldn't last a single practice with team.

 

[JCSunsfan]

A starting lineup of - Dragic, Bledsoe, PJ, Markief and Plumlee again.

B/u's can be key again Dragic/Bledsoe & Thomas, Green, TJ and Len could be a pretty dynamic 2nd team.

Marcus, Tolliver and Goodwin will mtl have to play their way in somehow.

So you have TJ ahead of Archie and Marcus already. I do too, it just interesting to see others thinking the same way.

 

[SwingMan]

Anyone who has at least a passing knowledge of the Phoenix Suns could see that Fesenko would easily be the most wasted pick up of the summer if it happened. That guy wouldn't last a single practice with team.

We had Fesenko on our summer league team a few years ago - unfortunately, a superb sense of humor and a robust taste for firewater doesn't necessarily translate into a serviceable basketball player......

 

[JCSunsfan]

Anyone who has at least a passing knowledge of the Phoenix Suns could see that Fesenko would easily be the most wasted pick up of the summer if it happened. That guy wouldn't last a single practice with team.

I think you are right. I think he was working out with doughnuts over the summer. By the way, can you believe they put NBA players, even if they are summer leaguers, in unis like that? Its a disgrace. The local Boys Club has better.

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[Superbone]

So you have TJ ahead of Archie and Marcus already. I do too, it just interesting to see others thinking the same way.

I'm already convinced that TJ is going to get regular minutes.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm already convinced that TJ is going to get regular minutes.

I really think he'd be a starter on a lot of teams and a good bet to win ROY. He's not really a great fit for us so it might take a little for him to get the exposure. I think he'd fit better next to a true catch and shoot guard at the two or even at the four.

With Bledsoe's recent comment about the Suns using the rules against him, I wouldn't be shocked to see a surprise trade or two. I'd consider moving Goodwin, Ennis, Bledsoe and maybe even the twins and just start over with an eye to a more traditional style team.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

I really think he'd be a starter on a lot of teams and a good bet to win ROY. He's not really a great fit for us so it might take a little for him to get the exposure. I think he'd fit better next to a true catch and shoot guard at the two or even at the four.

With Bledsoe's recent comment about the Suns using the rules against him, I wouldn't be shocked to see a surprise trade or two. I'd consider moving Goodwin, Ennis, Bledsoe and maybe even the twins and just start over with an eye to a more traditional style team.

Steve

I missed that comment by Bledsoe. Wow. Shades of Shawn Marion. I really like Bledsoe, but I would hate to have a pouter on the team.

 

[FutureSuperstar]

I really think he'd be a starter on a lot of teams and a good bet to win ROY. He's not really a great fit for us so it might take a little for him to get the exposure. I think he'd fit better next to a true catch and shoot guard at the two or even at the four.

With Bledsoe's recent comment about the Suns using the rules against him, I wouldn't be shocked to see a surprise trade or two. I'd consider moving Goodwin, Ennis, Bledsoe and maybe even the twins and just start over with an eye to a more traditional style team.

Steve

I saw the tweet that said this too. I think it said he said "The Suns are using the rules against me" ... But there was no context

The guy who tweeted it said it was during an interview, but why was the link to the interview or a full transcript of it not linked to in his tweet? ...

Looking at the quote objectively, which I think is pretty hard to do - it doesn't mean much. He did not say "The Suns are using the rules against me and that is wrong" - He just said the Suns are using the rules against him - Is that statement not TRUE? It is true because as everybody has said, the Suns have all the leverage given that he's a restricted FA. So they are using the rules against him getting a larger deal.

He could have easily said "The Suns are using the rules against me, which is within their right. I understand this is a business and I am still in the process of negotiating." ... Which isn't controversial at all

I'm waiting for proper context before rushing to any judgement on what he said.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I saw the tweet that said this too. I think it said he said "The Suns are using the rules against me" ... But there was no context

The guy who tweeted it said it was during an interview, but why was the link to the interview or a full transcript of it not linked to in his tweet? ...

Looking at the quote objectively, which I think is pretty hard to do - it doesn't mean much. He did not say "The Suns are using the rules against me and that is wrong" - He just said the Suns are using the rules against him - Is that statement not TRUE? It is true because as everybody has said, the Suns have all the leverage given that he's a restricted FA. So they are using the rules against him getting a larger deal.

He could have easily said "The Suns are using the rules against me, which is within their right. I understand this is a business and I am still in the process of negotiating." ... Which isn't controversial at all

I'm waiting for proper context before rushing to any judgement on what he said.

There is no way around seeing that comment as adversarial. The key word is "against" which you do not use in any kind of amicable negotiation.

The problem is that when Eric really needed to be marketed, his agent was busy with LeBron business. When he finally had gotten around to dealing with Eric, the market had dried up. Even then there were problems. The Suns have publicly said exactly what they intend to do, and that is match. Given Eric's injury history and the Suns willingness to match, other teams moved on. The deal he is being offered is fair. If he wants to shorten it to two years or something, fine.

I'm really getting fed up with Eric Bledsoe. He is showing the same sniveling, insecure, self-absorbed, attitude that got Marion shipped out of here (and lost him alot of money along the way).

THIS is what I hate about pro sports.

 

[leclerc]

Too bad. Hope we don't ship out Archie if push comes to show. At least give him three full years.

Dragic / Thomas / Green / Goodwin at guard
PJ / Morris × 2 / TJ / Tolliver at forward
Plum / Len + Mr X at center

We're really not dependent on Bled so I don't worry.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I saw the tweet that said this too. I think it said he said "The Suns are using the rules against me" ... But there was no context

The guy who tweeted it said it was during an interview, but why was the link to the interview or a full transcript of it not linked to in his tweet? ...

Looking at the quote objectively, which I think is pretty hard to do - it doesn't mean much. He did not say "The Suns are using the rules against me and that is wrong" - He just said the Suns are using the rules against him - Is that statement not TRUE? It is true because as everybody has said, the Suns have all the leverage given that he's a restricted FA. So they are using the rules against him getting a larger deal.

He could have easily said "The Suns are using the rules against me, which is within their right. I understand this is a business and I am still in the process of negotiating." ... Which isn't controversial at all

I'm waiting for proper context before rushing to any judgement on what he said.

Good call. Context trims it down to very little but reading between the lines I still have the same problem. His agent is blowing smoke up Eric's butt and it's not doing him (or us) any good.

Steve

 

[Errntknght]

I''m having trouble figuring out what he even means by using the rules against him. The rules of restricted free agency are the same for everyone and they didn't stop teams from throwing the max at Hayward and Parsons. I liked them both but I don't think they are worth that much - but one GM did. Yeah, we said we'd match but if any GM thought Eric was worth 63/4 or 80/5 they'd have offered it and put us to the test. Frankly, I don't think we would have matched 80/5 and maybe not 63/4.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I''m having trouble figuring out what he even means by using the rules against him. The rules of restricted free agency are the same for everyone and they didn't stop teams from throwing the max at Hayward and Parsons. I liked them both but I don't think they are worth that much - but one GM did. Yeah, we said we'd match but if any GM thought Eric was worth 63/4 or 80/5 they'd have offered it and put us to the test. Frankly, I don't think we would have matched 80/5 and maybe not 63/4.

I think we would have matched any amount but fortunately no one else can offer either the 5 years or the 80 million. Even in a sign and trade, the deal can only go for 4 years.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

I''m having trouble figuring out what he even means by using the rules against him. The rules of restricted free agency are the same for everyone and they didn't stop teams from throwing the max at Hayward and Parsons. I liked them both but I don't think they are worth that much - but one GM did. Yeah, we said we'd match but if any GM thought Eric was worth 63/4 or 80/5 they'd have offered it and put us to the test. Frankly, I don't think we would have matched 80/5 and maybe not 63/4.

Of course the statement saying we would match any offer did not consider 80/5 since that was not a possibility. Some teams could have offered him 63/5 but the delay, the Suns willingness to match and his injury history were just too much to bother with. If Wric was a better player with a better injury history playing a more desirable position he would have gotten an offer. But those factors exist and no amount of agent flattery and self admiration will make them go away. It's just his market.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Of course the statement saying we would match any offer did not consider 80/5 since that was not a possibility. Some teams could have offered him 63/5 but the delay, the Suns willingness to match and his injury history were just too much to bother with. If Wric was a better player with a better injury history playing a more desirable position he would have gotten an offer. But those factors exist and no amount of agent flattery and self admiration will make them go away. It's just his market.

I think this was the only real factor. It's become a very important position and the fact that he impacts both sides of the ball makes him something special. But his history just doesn't warrant the kind of money his agent was demanding.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

Anyone who has at least a passing knowledge of the Phoenix Suns could see that Fesenko would easily be the most wasted pick up of the summer if it happened. That guy wouldn't last a single practice with team.

I think Plumlee would disagree with you. Sure he isn't gonna be a good fit for the "run, run, run" offense but that doesn't mean he can still push our big guys into idk maybe getting stronger for a change?

I can't find the quote now but even Gortat said after going to Washington that one of the best things he liked about playing with the Wizards is that he finally had a guy in Nene who could push him in the weight room where as in PHX he embarrassed Plumlee, Len, Lopez whoever. He said one of the biggest reasons he looked good as a backup in Orlando was because he had Dwight dominating the weight room.

 

[3rdside]

I think Plumlee would disagree with you. Sure he isn't gonna be a good fit for the "run, run, run" offense but that doesn't mean he can still push our big guys into idk maybe getting stronger for a change?



I can't find the quote now but even Gortat said after going to Washington that one of the best things he liked about playing with the Wizards is that he finally had a guy in Nene who could push him in the weight room where as in PHX he embarrassed Plumlee, Len, Lopez whoever. He said one of the biggest reasons he looked good as a backup in Orlando was because he had Dwight dominating the weight room.

Thank god he's gone - I want players not lifters


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[3rdside]

Flippant response of course but the gist is there


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[WildBB]

So you have TJ ahead of Archie and Marcus already. I do too, it just interesting to see others thinking the same way.

I just think he is so adept and naturally gifted at scoring at 15ft. in, it will be tough to keep him on the bench. His D should be good enough on a b/u player. This should help Len as well, he can concentrate on the D end of the floor. He'll be out there with enough scorers. Make his mark on the D end first and formost.

 

[Chaplin]

I think Plumlee would disagree with you. Sure he isn't gonna be a good fit for the "run, run, run" offense but that doesn't mean he can still push our big guys into idk maybe getting stronger for a change?

I can't find the quote now but even Gortat said after going to Washington that one of the best things he liked about playing with the Wizards is that he finally had a guy in Nene who could push him in the weight room where as in PHX he embarrassed Plumlee, Len, Lopez whoever. He said one of the biggest reasons he looked good as a backup in Orlando was because he had Dwight dominating the weight room.

Irrelevant.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think Plumlee would disagree with you. Sure he isn't gonna be a good fit for the "run, run, run" offense but that doesn't mean he can still push our big guys into idk maybe getting stronger for a change?

I can't find the quote now but even Gortat said after going to Washington that one of the best things he liked about playing with the Wizards is that he finally had a guy in Nene who could push him in the weight room where as in PHX he embarrassed Plumlee, Len, Lopez whoever. He said one of the biggest reasons he looked good as a backup in Orlando was because he had Dwight dominating the weight room.

Gortat saying stupid stuff again. He never played a minute with Plumlee and Len. I doubt they spent ANY significant time in the weight room together. Maybe he pushed Lopez, but I have a hunch that Robin Lopez is stronger than him. Most of the time Lopez was here, he was dealing with a back injury, so workouts would have been limited.

Gortat might be seven feet tall, but those types of comments make him a small man as a human being.

 

[JCSunsfan]

So. Assuming Bledsoe eventually signs. . .

Dragic, Thomas, Ennis
Bledsoe, Green
PJ, TJ
Keef, Tolliver, Mook
Plumlee, Len, Randolph

Players with increased minutes (or new players who will take minutes): Thomas, TJ, Keef, Tolliver

Players who will decrease minutes: Mook, Green

Players who will play in garbage time or special situations only: Ennis, Randolph

Team needs: Rebounding, rebounding, rebounding. I would take single digit points and double digit rebounding from the starting center and be thrilled. Three point shooting. We really do not have a designated shooter on this team. Tolliver is the closest thing, but he is not in the starting line up. PJ had better improve that corner 3.