QB Situation- my $.02

[clif]

I was being sarcastic!

can you be anymore subtle?

 

[This_Guy]

unless McCown completely falls apart... then he should be the guy.

Ummmmm...I'm not sure if you've been paying attention, but he was crying on TV last night. Patrick Kerney said he looked scared and Bill Belicheck said he felt sorry for him. 0 TDs and 5 turnovers in 3 games.

He's pretty close.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

i never said support him unconditionally... reread my earlier post... unless McCown completely falls apart... then he should be the guy.

Too late he already has!

What does it take for people to open there eyes and unbiasedly look at this guy? What is the attraction? It has been layed out many times what his problems are yet you continue to deny every one of them. Hell even DG said that McCown makes the o-line look worse then it is playing sometimes by running around like an idiot and not throwing the ball away.

Why cant any of you McCown lovers see that? He is not the future. And after Green has enough balls to swallow his own ego and cut the cord, McCown will be gone.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

can you be anymore subtle?

I guess I should use those smilies huh?

sorry

 

[clif]

Too late he already has!

What does it take for people to open there eyes and unbiasedly look at this guy? What is the attraction? It has been layed out many times what his problems are yet you continue to deny every one of them. Hell even DG said that McCown makes the o-line look worse then it is playing sometimes by running around like an idiot and not throwing the ball away.

Why cant any of you McCown lovers see that? He is not the future. And after Green has enough balls to swallow his own ego and cut the cord, McCown will be gone. Then I am sure you will be all over that band wagon huh?

what are you talking about?

.. I am not a McCown lover. I really wish they would have gotten a QB... My original post was about someone trying to compare him to other qbs .... My point is that if you make the commitment to the guy like DG has done, you can't pull the plug after 3 games.

 

[clif]

I guess I should use those smilies huh?

sorry

yeah!


j/k

 

[clif]

Ummmmm...I'm not sure if you've been paying attention, but he was crying on TV last night. Patrick Kerney said he looked scared and Bill Belicheck said he felt sorry for him. 0 TDs and 5 turnovers in 3 games.

He's pretty close.

tell me this... if Shaun King is so great... why didn't he go anywhere else?

why didn't he beat out brad johnson?

and correct me if i'm wrong wasn't he behind Rob johnson at one point?

 

[BigStick]

I'm not sure if I'm arrogant or not, but I have no bias for or against Shawn King or Josh McCown. In fact I was really rooting for McCown to make it not only because his success would correlate into wins, but also because he appears to be a humble family man with good intentions and a solid work ethic. That being said, he's simply not cutting it right now and my unbiased opinion is that King should be starting because he gives us the best opportunity to win.

I would like to say that IMO DG made the wrong call during the game but the right call for the upcoming home game. King should have been put in to the game at the half. We had yet to score any points or show any offense at all up to that point. A spark on offense was needed because the defense was stepping up and shutting down Vick. This is a new offense that the team is running and only the third game that Josh has been under center in it. The preseason everything is vanilla and you can't count it because he had limited reps with his top receivers. He did enough good things to continue to be the guy. But King would have sparked them in the second half. That is what a veteran off the bench should do. Also, we have no running game whatsoever and the Oline is the biggest liability at this point. Josh will get prescence as he gets more protection and as we develop a running game. If these things don't happen it will not matter who we throw back there. The biggest thing is that Josh did enough good things to keep the boo birds away on sunday at home. If they suck early he will get booed and probably benched but after 4 games if you can't start mustering some offense then the entire Offense needs to be scrapped and bring in a different running back that has speed.(Scobey?) And in the final analysis we are going to have to bring Shelton in on obvious passing plays and make him tackle eligible. He can give added protection and we won't have to rely on Freddie Jones to make any kind of play whatsoever. He can't block or break a tackle for YAC so sit him down. It sucks to lose a close one on the road but we are competing because of the defense. We havn't said that in years.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

what are you talking about?

.. I am not a McCown lover. I really wish they would have gotten a QB... My original post was about someone trying to compare him to other qbs .... My point is that if you make the commitment to the guy like DG has done, you can't pull the plug after 3 games.

So you just think we should keep McCown in based on commitment? Do you also believe that no player should lose their job due to injury? Or that Veterens should always start over rookies?

My point is, if it aint working, make it work! No matter what you have to do! Bench McCown, Bench Jones, Bench Big, Clement, Dansby, Fitz...whatever. If any other position player was performing even half as bad as McCown is, there would be 20 threads on this board about trading him for a bag of stale pretzels, benching him, cutting him outright etc, yet because DG made a "Commitment' to McCown we should stick with him?

News flash do you know how many QB's DG won with in Minny? He committs to winning not a player, and after a few more games like these McCown will be permenantly benched!

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

I would like to say that IMO DG made the wrong call during the game but the right call for the upcoming home game. King should have been put in to the game at the half. We had yet to score any points or show any offense at all up to that point. A spark on offense was needed because the defense was stepping up and shutting down Vick. This is a new offense that the team is running and only the third game that Josh has been under center in it. The preseason everything is vanilla and you can't count it because he had limited reps with his top receivers. He did enough good things to continue to be the guy. But King would have sparked them in the second half. That is what a veteran off the bench should do. Also, we have no running game whatsoever and the Oline is the biggest liability at this point. Josh will get prescence as he gets more protection and as we develop a running game. If these things don't happen it will not matter who we throw back there. The biggest thing is that Josh did enough good things to keep the boo birds away on sunday at home. If they suck early he will get booed and probably benched but after 4 games if you can't start mustering some offense then the entire Offense needs to be scrapped and bring in a different running back that has speed.(Scobey?) And in the final analysis we are going to have to bring Shelton in on obvious passing plays and make him tackle eligible. He can give added protection and we won't have to rely on Freddie Jones to make any kind of play whatsoever. He can't block or break a tackle for YAC so sit him down. It sucks to lose a close one on the road but we are competing because of the defense. We havn't said that in years.

Welcome to the Board Stick!

 

[black]

So I've been kind of quiet, but I thought I'd throw some thoughts in now. I stayed quiet because I thought the QB play spoke for itself and the outcome was somewhat inevitable.

Going back to the pre-season, I said King was a much better QB than McCown and got roasted for it.

Back then, I said that McCown, for all his nice physical attributes, had no pocket presense or poise, can't feel the rush and doesn't see the whole field. I think it's fair to say I was on the right track there.

For all the talk about McCown's being "young" or "inexperienced", I think you need a quick reality check. This is McCown's 3rd year in the league and his sixth start. If he doesn't have any of the above mentioned traits by now, he won't get them any time soon if at all. It's one thing if he's making mistakes that can be corrected, but the qualities that McCown lacks are innate, not learned.

None of the 1st, 2nd or 3rd year QBs are playing nearly that badly. They are inconsistent and still learning for sure, but none have been nearly as bad. Think about this comparison, going into his 3rd season in the league, King had a record of 14-7, went to the playoffs twice and hasn't played since. Anyone wonder if King has developed any? What if he's better than he was in his second season (hint: he is)?

As for the play of the OL, yes it is not good. But I believe the Cards line is better than most think. For all the talk that McCown can't be fairly judged because he's running for his life, notice that King did not run for his life once. McCown's lack of pocket awareness is making the OL look much much worse than it is. The OL and running game will both improve dramatically with King at QB.

Had King played the last 3 games, the Cards would probably be 2-1 with a shot to be 3-0. It's really not that far fetched. This idea that the Cards need to ride McCown until you are 0-8 is stupid.

Think about this......

If I was right about McCown when no one else thought so, what if...just what if I am right about King as well. Here's a hint: He's not the caretaker you think he is. The Cards can be in the playoffs THIS YEAR if King is the QB by half time next week.

As much as I hate to...I agree. McCown has failed us thus far, benching is a perfect situation. Don't tell me its raining while peeing down my back.


I like Josh, but he's not gettin' it done.

 

[clif]

So you just think we should keep McCown in based on commitment? Do you also believe that no player should lose their job due to injury? Or that Veterens should always start over rookies?

My point is, if it aint working, make it work! No matter what you have to do! Bench McCown, Bench Jones, Bench Big, Clement, Dansby, Fitz...whatever. If any other position player was performing even half as bad as McCown is, there would be 20 threads on this board about trading him for a bag of stale pretzels, benching him, cutting him outright etc, yet because DG made a "Commitment' to McCown we should stick with him?

News flash do you know how many QB's DG won with in Minny? He committs to winning not a player, and after a few more games like these McCown will be permenantly benched!

you make it sound like this team is one player away from the playoffs.

Of course DG will not make a commitment to a player just for the hell of it. the player has to show that he has the tools to do the job.

Josh made some throws yesterday that many can't make. this is not a playoff team needing a spark here. this is a young team learning.

 

[conraddobler]

This whole thread cracks me up.

You guys are trying to decide if McCown or King is the better QB and who should be starting et al.

Hint... DG does this for a living and he is starting McCown which roughly translates into DG feels long term McCown is the dude. He might be wrong but it's obvious he sees something in the kid and believes it's fixable or he would already be starting King.

I can not see any other earthly reason to believe otherwise. It's not like he couldn't just say hey QB's are funny I thought I had this and well I don't so King is they guy.

DG is not overly worried about this year. He is most worried about next year and if he felt King would develop into a better QB than McCown long term he wouldn't hesitate to bench McCown.

The best employee I ever had was a cluesless disaster his first 6 months. I don't know how that translates into NFL starts but I'd think it'd be something like a full NFL season, heck it's just a guess.

My own boss looked at me like some sort of special ******* for even hiring the guy in the first place and wanted to fire him but I saw things in the kid that said he's worth a try.

He went on to set all kinds of company records and now he's my partner.

No one is asking for Plummer like time here but the kid needs to ride out his shot and winning this year is secondary to me at least because we weren't going anywhere too special anyhow. We need to know about our players before next years FA and draft.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If King leads the cards to victory? Then we can say he deserves more playing time, but the question is...what has he done to deserve that shot?

what has Josh? The starting position was handed to him before he even took a snap.

 

[clif]

No one is asking for Plummer like time here but the kid needs to ride out his shot and winning this year is secondary to me at least because we weren't going anywhere too special anyhow. We need to know about our players before next years FA and draft.

exactly

 

[clif]

what has Josh? The starting position was handed to him before he even took a snap.

looked good on film?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Josh made some throws yesterday that many can't make.

Uh - excuse me - Josh made some throws that many can't make? What the hell are you talking about - Josh made some throws that ANY starter in the NFL can make. Tell me exactly which throws you're talking about and then tell me which NFL starting QB can't make them - that is simply an unwarranted un-back-up-able statement.

He made a great throw to Williams to get down on the six - too bad he then ran backwards 13 yards on a three step drop, got sacked and turned the ball over AGAIN on the next play.

 

[clif]

He made a great throw to Williams to get down on the six -.

what you want me to slice up some game film now? you want me to send you a highlight package? you act like your statements are law.

 

[Cheesebeef]

looked good on film?

what film was that? I must have missed Michael Moore's latest film - "11.6" the score at which the Cardinals continue to lose with McCown at QB where it somehow isn't McCown's fault, but George Bush's fault that our QB can't make plays.

And in order to be given some time - ala Plummer - the kid has to show a reason to get that time - he sure as hell didn't in college and he sure as hell so far in the majority of six starts, hasn't shown it in the NFL.

The thing about his body language, Kerney saying he looked scared, Bellichik feeling sorry for him and crying after the game doesn't bode well for this guy that you want to see get soo much more time. I have no problem with him starting this week - but if he sucks again in the first half - it's time to see what someone else can do - you owe the Veterans on the team that much - especially if the game is close.

 

[black]

*whisle* Josh lost us the game.

 

[Cheesebeef]

what you want me to slice up some game film now? you want me to send you a highlight package? you act like your statements are law.

You made a what I thought was a ridiculous statement and now you don't want to back it up? What plays - and they should stand out in your mind if they were throws that "not many QBs can make" - were made that were of that ilk? If you can't back up a statement, don't make it.

 

[clif]

You made a what I thought was a ridiculous statement and now you don't want to back it up? What plays - and they should stand out in your mind if they were throws that "not many QBs can make" - were made that were of that ilk? If you can't back up a statement, don't make it.

the williams throw on the sideline over the DB and by the diving safety.

the throw to BJ on the sideline on the run

I will watch the tape again to see what others.

 

[Cheesebeef]

the williams throw on the sideline over the DB and by the diving safety.

the throw to BJ on the sideline on the run

I will watch the tape again to see what others.

one nice throw to Williams that good QBs make - the play to BJ - you mean where BJ was wide open and he had to turn the wrong to get the ball otherwise he would have more running room? That's a routine throw.

You know what though - and I don't mean this to be insulting but it probably will be - there's no reason in debating anything about football with someone who believed in Coach Mac up until they fired him - you destroyed any credibility in my eyes whatsoever when you made that comment and it explains EVERYTHING about your posts on almost every subject. Toodles.

 

[clif]

what film was that? I must have missed Michael Moore's latest film - "11.6" the score at which the Cardinals continue to lose with McCown at QB where it somehow isn't McCown's fault, but George Bush's fault that our QB can't make plays.

And in order to be given some time - ala Plummer - the kid has to show a reason to get that time - he sure as hell didn't in college and he sure as hell so far in the majority of six starts, hasn't shown it in the NFL.

The thing about his body language, Kerney saying he looked scared, Bellichik feeling sorry for him and crying after the game doesn't bode well for this guy that you want to see get soo much more time. I have no problem with him starting this week - but if he sucks again in the first half - it's time to see what someone else can do - you owe the Veterans on the team that much - especially if the game is close.

it was a joke..

the guy has 3 starts in a new offense and 3 in a pretty poor offense.

remember I think the guy has to be given time and better weapons. he needs playmakers.

can he improve? Hell yes he needs to play damn better, but all blame cannot be placed on him and it would not be as easy to just replace the Qb and the offense magically gets better.

 

[conraddobler]

one nice throw to Williams that good QBs make - the play to BJ - you mean where BJ was wide open and he had to turn the wrong to get the ball otherwise he would have more running room? That's a routine throw.

You know what though - and I don't mean this to be insulting but it probably will be - there's no reason in debating anything about football with someone who believed in Coach Mac up until they fired him - you destroyed any credibility in my eyes whatsoever when you made that comment and it explains EVERYTHING about your posts on almost every subject. Toodles.

Honestly I hope you get your wish and they start King against a good defensive team.

The standard you are holding McCown to is fine as long as your willing to eat your words when King overthrows wide open guys and plunks balls in the flat like he always does sooner or later if you watch any film of the guy.

He reminds me of a poor mans Kordell Stewart who can't run.