Raja Bell- the newest sun

[Amare32]

Raja defends alot like Bowen. He holds, he pushes and can sometimes play dirty to try and get the best of his man so this is going to be a great signing. Mainly on the defensive end of the floor. His offense is very good also and is a great shooter.

 

[SweetD]

Raja defends alot like Bowen. He holds, he pushes and can sometimes play dirty to try and get the best of his man so this is going to be a great signing. Mainly on the defensive end of the floor. His offense is very good also and is a great shooter.

I agree he is a much better scorer than Bowen but Bowen is a much better shot blocker. I remember watching the Suns vs Jazz and always thought Bell would be a good piece but I didn't watch enough of him to make a fair judgement.

 

[elindholm]

The Salt Lake Tribune article said "Because Bell is eligible to receive most of the mid-level exception..." but this makes no sense. Bell is "eligible" to receive any amount that anyone wants to pay him. Even if the article meant that the Suns could offer most of the MLE, that's not right either, because of course they could offer him the whole thing.

Unless, that is, the new CBA has the MLE split into two parts, larger and smaller, as some have speculated. We haven't gotten a definitive statement on this yet. If the MLE was split, that would somewhat explain why a player like Marshall was never considered, since surely he'll find a way to get more than $3.5 million (a number that I just made up as a possible "larger part" of the new MLE).

Assuming the full MLE is still an option, however -- and there's every indication that it is -- the Tribune article doesn't have the facts right. Let's hope they're off on the number as well. I think it's worth pointing out, however, that we have this conversation often when the Suns do a signing or make a trade, and we're usually disappointed to learn that, yes, they really did pay as much as the early reports say.

The front-court depth is a major problem. Even if you include Marion's ability to play PF, there are a grand total of three decent players at the power positions. They'll have to do something else, but I predict we will be severely disappointed with the results.

 

[Yuma]

4 to 5 years at $25 to $28 million. The guy is only 28, at the height of his career. If it's a 5 year deal at roughly $5 million a year, I'd say that is a bargain. We had Eisley at $6 million this year, and he was never as good with us as Bell will be. I'm thinking for the numbers to match those totals, with escalation each year, we can't be using all the MLE for those numbers to work out, unles he only gets like a 2-3% raise a year. I don't see his agent going for that!

 

[F-Dog]

Assuming the full MLE is still an option, however -- and there's every indication that it is -- the Tribune article doesn't have the facts right. Let's hope they're off on the number as well. I think it's worth pointing out, however, that we have this conversation often when the Suns do a signing or make a trade, and we're usually disappointed to learn that, yes, they really did pay as much as the early reports say.

Very true. I'm already assuming that the MLE is gone.

The front-court depth is a major problem. Even if you include Marion's ability to play PF, there are a grand total of three decent players at the power positions. They'll have to do something else, but I predict we will be severely disappointed with the results.

I've been assuming that Marion starts at PF, and if that's the case, the Suns really only have room in the rotation for one more front-court player, and only spot minutes for him.

Ideally, they'd pick up an athletic shot-blocking center and also a wide body. Realistically, they've got the LLE left, and I assume they'll use it on the best center they can get with the money. After that, they'll use the veteran's minimum to fill out the roster (3rd-string PG, McCarty-esque shooting PF, etc.)

 

[Chaz]

4 to 5 years at $25 to $28 million. The guy is only 28, at the height of his career. If it's a 5 year deal at roughly $5 million a year, I'd say that is a bargain. We had Eisley at $6 million this year, and he was never as good with us as Bell will be. I'm thinking for the numbers to match those totals, with escalation each year, we can't be using all the MLE for those numbers to work out, unles he only gets like a 2-3% raise a year. I don't see his agent going for that!

I agree. It sounds like, depending on what the MLE is they did not use all of it to make that deal. I think it is a nice addition.

Wouldn't only the first year count against the MLE amount?

Doesn't the MLE go up as well this year?

If the MLE is about 6 MIL (and it can be split up) you could sign bell starting at about 4-4.5 MIL and still have about 1.5 - 2 MIL left to sign someone else halfway decent for depth.


If we are over the cap don't we have to make room for the rookie? Assuming he makes the team of course. Also wouldn't he need a contract of some kind to play in the summer league next week?

 

[PhxGametime]

Well I just signed on, and read this Thread... does anybody know if Theo Ratliff is available?


I like the pick-up much more than Finley who is like 4 years older but I guess the mininum is where the rest of the FA will be signed, $25-28 million is cheap for a Mid-Level... where in world did this talk of PG come up? He's a SG people!

Unless the team can add a decent BIG, with the rest of cash available... I expect a Trade of Voskuhl, 1st Rounder(s), Draft rights to Mlios Vujanic, 2nd Rounder(s), and/or cash. Unless Voskuhl becomes the 3rd big?


I'm not sure he's a stopper but if he can defend ala a Johnson, Marion, etc. there's just 1 more defender along with KT. I figured I would be upset if he got the full Mid-Level but oh well... but maybe Ratliff becomes available?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I agree. It sounds like, depending on what the MLE is they did not use all of it to make that deal. I think it is a nice addition.

Wouldn't only the first year count against the MLE amount?

Doesn't the MLE go up as well this year?

If the MLE is about 6 MIL (and it can be split up) you could sign bell starting at about 4-4.5 MIL and still have about 1.5 - 2 MIL left to sign someone else halfway decent for depth.


If we are over the cap don't we have to make room for the rookie? Assuming he makes the team of course. Also wouldn't he need a contract of some kind to play in the summer league next week?

The rookie will come out of the MLE, or the LLE since he was a second round draft pick. However, he will get a minimum deal. If he were a first round pick, we could add him without an issue.

I am not sure what you mean about only the first year counting against the MLE amount. A team gets the MLE each year, so yes - only Raja's starting salary will count against this years MLE total.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Well I just signed on, and read this Thread... does anybody know if Theo Ratliff is available?

No he isn't. He signed an extension last summer, and Nash (Portland's GM) said that he would not use the 1 time exception that will be used on Finley and Houston on Ratliff under any circumstances.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

I called this one 4 weeks ago. You guys are going to like Bell, he is a damn good bench player...much better than the glove at this point.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

yeah - that's right - they are assuming he signed for the entire thing - something contrary to what we heard earlier - I hope what we heard earlier was right.

25-28 million would be the entire thing only if he took a flat contract (which he probably didn't)

A more likely scenario:

4 million
4.32 million
4.64 million
4.96 million
5.28 million

Totaling 5 years, 23.2 million (you get my idea)

 

[sunsfn]

I like Raja Bell, but not for the whole MLE.

I hope he does not get that.

The suns have to sign a big man right?? Wow with what, the minimum, that will not be a prominent player.

If they get Hunter with the low part of the MLE okay.
(that is if it is split like was talked about)

 

[elindholm]

I've been assuming that Marion starts at PF, and if that's the case, the Suns really only have room in the rotation for one more front-court player, and only spot minutes for him.

The big reasons that I'm hoping for another good front-court player on the roster, with Thomas starting instead of Jackson, are

1. I think we saw something very close to the maximum potential of small ball last season. While it appeared that the Suns might have been close in their series against the Spurs, both the Spurs and the Pistons raised their level of play in the Finals to a level the Suns simply can't approach with their current philosophy, in my opinion. Acquiring Thomas appears to be a recognition that a more traditional approach is necessary, so let's make a real commitment to that.

2. Stoudemire has to learn how to play defense, and that means not being afraid of fouls. If the entire "big" rotation is just Stoudemire/Marion/Thomas, we're going to be in the same situation as last season, with Stoudemire letting people blow by him because the team can't afford for him to be on the bench. With another good forward or center to throw into the mix, the Suns wouldn't necessarily lose that much if Stoudemire is held to, say, five minutes in the first half once in a while. Then Stoudemire could gradually establish a defensive reputation with the officials, which would help come playoff time.

 

[jandaman]

This is a good signing for the suns.

Finley and Payton was the ideal pick-ups, but that would require the suns to spare a lot of minutes from their starting line-up. Although it will boost the bench, the suns need reliable role players not stars.

The only thing needs to be done is sign Hunter, offer him around $2 Million and he should sign. Considering Nets cannot offer more than that since they want SAR.


Voskuhl needs to be traded, since he will not get much playing time if Hunter gets signed again. He can be a decent back up for another team...



I like this line-up

C: Amare
PF: Marion
SF: Jackson
SG: Johnson
PG: Nash

Bench:
Bell
Barbosa
Thomas
Hunter


thats a good 9 man rotation, although dont expect Barbosa and Hunter to play every game.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

we're going to be in the same situation as last season, with Stoudemire letting people blow by him because the team can't afford for him to be on the bench.

The assumption that Amare will be the same player next year is a mistake I have seen every year since his arrival.

The Amare you saw last year is not the Amare you will see this year.

 

[asudevil83]

Rumors suggest that he turned down a contract offer from the Jazz for $4 mil a year in order to play for the Suns. He has said that he would like to play with Steve Nash and it appears that he is willing to take less money to do it.

The Suns are rumored to have offered him a 4-5 year contract around the $3 million range. This would leave $2.5 million left of the midlevel exception to resign Steven Hunter or sign another free agent if Hunter decides he wants more money. My guess is that Hunter will sign for whatever is left of the midlevel after Raja is signed. If Hunter believes he is worth more or another team offers him the full mid level, look for the Suns to go after another big man in free agency.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_13246.shtml

i dont know if that's been posted earlier in the thread, but if anyone hasnt read it, it worth a little skim.

 

[Evil Ash]

Rumors suggest that he turned down a contract offer from the Jazz for $4 mil a year in order to play for the Suns. He has said that he would like to play with Steve Nash and it appears that he is willing to take less money to do it.

The Suns are rumored to have offered him a 4-5 year contract around the $3 million range. This would leave $2.5 million left of the midlevel exception to resign Steven Hunter or sign another free agent if Hunter decides he wants more money

I know its Hoopsworld (and so it has little legitimacy) but I hope this is true

BTW I loved the Bell signing

 

[Yuma]

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_13246.shtml

i dont know if that's been posted earlier in the thread, but if anyone hasnt read it, it worth a little skim.

That wouild make sense to me since salaries generally escalate each year, and the Utah article said the total was $25 to $28 million. If you start with the full MLE, it goes to high for the number of years.

 

[sly fly]

I absolutely love the Raja Bell signing. A steal.

Bell is a player who deserves everything that comes to him. He worked his ass off to go from nobody to 4 miliion a year.

Not only is he someone who can SHUT DOWN Ginobilli, he isn't afraid to take a big shot or big charge.

It seems everytime PHX played a team with Raja Bell on it, he gave them all sorts of fits. Just ask any of them.

To not like this trade, is foolish. Plain foolish.

Screw the cap for a minute, and just be glad he's on our side.

 

[playstation]

everyone associated with watching bell at all has said the same thing: this guy is starter quality.

HOWEVER, assuming the Suns used most/all the MLE to get him, that's gotta be an admission of continuing with the small ball style. Hell, Bell might just be our 5th starter, with KT backing up marion & amare (playing Hunter's role).

Obviously, I hope that HoopsWorld article was more on the money.

A couple days ago someone quoted BC as saying they needed to 'churn' the bench. That must mean they had more in mind than one guy with the whole MLE.

One more thing, Nash and Bell are good buds from their Dallas days, and Bell takes LESS money (maybe) to come play here? Folster, I gotta give you some credit for at least bringing up the possibility.

 

[cly2tw]

I feel so good now that Bell is finally on board. He is Bowen-type of defender, actually more athletic and better offensively as he understands spacing even better. Bowen played on championship teams and got the exposure. Now will Bell. It's a steal. Bye bye the time when Parker, Manu, Billups, Wade had their field days with the Suns!

Now, to get bigs, and I hope we go after some good ones, I wonder who'd be the bait now?

 

[Folster]

Folster, I gotta give you some credit for at least bringing up the possibility.

I just wish I could have been more accurate and detailed. My boss will be back this week from a business trip. I'll try to pump him for some info.

 

[Joe Mama]

He is certainly not Q though. He may be a good defender, but he does not average many steals, and steals greatly help the Suns' offense. He averaged 0.7/G (1.18/48min) whereas Q averaged 1.2/G (1.62/48min). Q also played more minutes, which makes his numbers look better.

Steals and blocks are nice and easy to show statistically, but they aren't always an indicator of good defense. Watching the guys play is still the best way to show who is a good defender and who isn't. Q might average 1 more steal every 96 minutes, but she's almost certainly giving up more points from penetration along the way. Bell is a much better defender regardless of those numbers. Besides, assuming Bell plays around 25 minutes per game the difference would only be one steal every four games.

i think we need a legit 6'11-7' guy. a shotblocker. even if he does little else. we just can't have all three of our power guys be amare's height or shorter. gotta have some length to bring in to disrupt shots every now and again. that rules out fizer the midget.

I agree. They do need at least one guy on the bench really they need a couple. Has anybody heard about where Duane Jones from St. Josephs is going to play summer ball? I guess there are a couple free agents that could help. Perhaps they know something already.

Just wonder though who is available that would come as cheap.. Perhaps invite Lonnie Jones to the Summer League and see if he would warrant a spot on the Suns Exhibition roster... For some odd reason Jones has always intrigued me and probably would want to prove his worth if given a chance... One of those players that provided an opportunity might become a steal....

Everyone here knows I've been wondering about Lonnie Jones since last summer. I would love to know what happened to this guy.

1. I think we saw something very close to the maximum potential of small ball last season. While it appeared that the Suns might have been close in their series against the Spurs, both the Spurs and the Pistons raised their level of play in the Finals to a level the Suns simply can't approach with their current philosophy, in my opinion. Acquiring Thomas appears to be a recognition that a more traditional approach is necessary, so let's make a real commitment to that.

2. Stoudemire has to learn how to play defense, and that means not being afraid of fouls. If the entire "big" rotation is just Stoudemire/Marion/Thomas, we're going to be in the same situation as last season, with Stoudemire letting people blow by him because the team can't afford for him to be on the bench. With another good forward or center to throw into the mix, the Suns wouldn't necessarily lose that much if Stoudemire is held to, say, five minutes in the first half once in a while. Then Stoudemire could gradually establish a defensive reputation with the officials, which would help come playoff time.

I don't think the Phoenix Suns will be able to re-sign Hunter if they've offered the better part of their mid-level exception to Bell. Even so I think we are going to see "normal" lineups for 25-30 minutes per game. Even if it's a little less that's still at least 10-15 minutes more than we saw from last year's team. Also, they have the ability to lay with a traditional lineup when they want to... something they really couldn't do effectively last year.

I completely agree with your second point. That's the biggest reason they need the frontcourt depth.

Joe Mama

 

[arthurracoon]

Obviously, I hope that HoopsWorld article was more on the money.

Nice pun!

I concur.

 

[Kolo]

I'll try to pump him for some info.

We don't need inside information that badly.