Real GM Rumor: Amare to GS, Done Deal!?

[joshstmarie]

Sure.

Defensive stats
GS (Biedriens) Opponent Points Per 48 from center 24.7
Hornets (Chandler) Opponent Point Per 48 from center 15.1

Gs Center defensive rank - #30
Hornets Center Defensive Rank - #2

GS Opposing Center FG% - #18
Hornets Oppsing Center FG% - #12

GS Defensive Points in the Paint #30
Hornets Defensive Points in the paint #3

You really going to sit here and compare the two of them defensively?

thats funny. im not even going to get into it with you.... i mean since when does "GS" stand for andres bierdens. you are the king of scew to prove your point.

 

[187]

I really want to deal Wallace for Tyson, because at least he can play defense and Nash can feed him alley oops all day like Chris Paul did.

 

[Covert Rain]

thats funny. im not even going to get into it with you.... i mean since when does "GS" stand for andres bierdens. you are the king of scew to prove your point.

What the hell are you talking about? Those are stats from the defensive positions and each of those players log the majority of minutes for that position. Are you trying to say those players don't impact those respective positions more then any other player on their team?

Also, the Opponent Per 48 stat is specific for that player only and Beidrins is not even close.

Biedriens Opponent Points Per 48 from center 24.7
Chandler Opponent Point Per 48 from center 15.1

Nice try.

So, If I am skewing stats as you say, please show me the supporting evidence the other way.

 

[sunsallday]

What the hell are you talking about? Those are stats from the defensive positions and each of those players log the majority of minutes for.

Nice try.

I usually don't agree with you, but Chandler>>>>>>>>>>>Biedriens defensively.

 

[sunsallday]

Thinking about it, Chandler would be a fine player next to Amare.

 

[joshstmarie]

What the hell are you talking about? Those are stats from the defensive positions and each of those players log the majority of minutes for. Also, the Opponent Per 48 stat is specific for that player only.

Nice try.

my fault, i didnt see you did the (GS) = AB thing. i just skimmed.

anyhoo, TC would be doin the same thing as AB did if he was in the system...just like one of the other posters mentioned. that and he can actually stay healthy.

 

[cly2tw]

Sure.

Defensive stats
GS (Biedriens) Opponent Points Per 48 from center 24.7
Hornets (Chandler) Opponent Point Per 48 from center 15.1

Biedriens Blocks 1.5
Chandler Blocks 1.2

Not huge difference and blocks doesn't make a player a good defender either.

Gs Center defensive rank - #30
Hornets Center Defensive Rank - #2

GS Opposing Center FG% - #18
Hornets Oppsing Center FG% - #12

GS Defensive Points in the Paint #30
Hornets Defensive Points in the paint #3

You really going to sit here and compare the two of them defensively?

That's actually unfair comparison.
NO's defensive rating at C is #2 and all the other good ranking is only partially due to Chandler. But main reason for that good rating is, right you guessed right, due to CP3's nasty PG defense!

So, what does it imply? Suns defense will be as bad as before with Biedrins/Nash or Chandler/Nash. All the Nash fans wanted was to have people who could create offensively on their own gone from the team, to further feature Nash for the next 3 years at what he does best. And the management believes that this is what avg Suns fans want to see. What else is new?

 

[Covert Rain]

That's actually unfair comparison.
NO's defensive rating at C is #2 and all the other good ranking is only partially due to Chandler. But main reason for that good rating is, right you guessed right, due to CP3's nasty PG defense!

That still is a very good indication since you can't chalk up the Center positions fantastic #'s all thanks to your PG. Also, that doesn't explain these #'s specific to Chandler and Biedrins. It's not even close.

Biedriens Opponent Points Per 48 from center 24.7
Chandler Opponent Point Per 48 from center 15.1

my fault, i didnt see you did the (GS) = AB thing. i just skimmed.

anyhoo, TC would be doin the same thing as AB did if he was in the system...just like one of the other posters mentioned. that and he can actually stay healthy.

That's a huge leap of faith for someone who in his entire career has never had good defensive numbers. Also, I remember reading on this very forum that people thought Nash could player better defense here then in Dallas.

 

[dodie53]

ship Wallace to Philli for Brand, and you have a nice PF/C tag team.

no to Brand,
he's always injured.

 

[CardinalsFan11]

Sure.

Defensive stats
GS (Biedriens) Opponent Points Per 48 from center 24.7
Hornets (Chandler) Opponent Point Per 48 from center 15.1

Biedriens Blocks 1.5
Chandler Blocks 1.2

Not huge difference and blocks doesn't make a player a good defender either.

Gs Center defensive rank - #30
Hornets Center Defensive Rank - #2

GS Opposing Center FG% - #18
Hornets Oppsing Center FG% - #12

GS Defensive Points in the Paint #30
Hornets Defensive Points in the paint #3

You really going to sit here and compare the two of them defensively?

These stats really don't compare Biedrins and Chandler. They simply compare the center position for the Warriors and the Hornets. Not the same thing.

 

[Covert Rain]

These stats really don't compare Biedrins and Chandler. They simply compare the center position for the Warriors and the Hornets. Not the same thing.

This one does (it's specific to those players) and it's not even close. Those numbers rank at the bottom of the NBA.

(Biedriens) Opponent Points Per 48 from center 24.7
(Chandler) Opponent Point Per 48 from center 15.1

Also, in regards to the other stats I posted, if a player logs the majority of the minutes at that position, it's a damn good indication. Let's say each player logs 80% of the time played at center. That means they are still responsible for 80% of the stats from that position. It's a great indication. If they only logged 25% of their time there I would agree with you.

 

[lauraw]

Trade Amare to the weakest team in the league for their next 3 unprotected 1st round picks... Why can't the Suns do a trade like that? To hear some people talk on this sight thats what he does already...[that the Suns would get nothing for a year]

 

[TBaslim]

This is so much like the Nance deal. Hope it turns out as well.

Ain't that the truth. Wasn't KJ drafted at #7 as well? He was in his rookie year, mostly on the bench, when they traded Nance.

 

[cly2tw]

no to Brand,
he's always injured.

In particular, Biedrins/Brand would be better than Chandler/Amare, and better fit with Nash?

These stats really don't compare Biedrins and Chandler. They simply compare the center position for the Warriors and the Hornets. Not the same thing.

GS ranks #30 at C defense because they ran and gunned and their PG defense was no existent, as it will stay that way with Biedrins/Nash combo! Actually, saying NO's #2 C defense not all on Chandler only supports the same prediction that even Chandler/Nash wouldn't make much difference.

 

[SirStefan32]

Trade Amare to the weakest team in the league for their next 3 unprotected 1st round picks... Why can't the Suns do a trade like that? To hear some people talk on this sight thats what he does already...[that the Suns would get nothing for a year]

Because nobody is going to give you 3 first round picks to rent Amare for one year.

 

[CardinalsFan11]

This one does (it's specific to those players) and it's not even close. Those numbers rank at the bottom of the NBA.

(Biedriens) Opponent Points Per 48 from center 24.7
(Chandler) Opponent Point Per 48 from center 15.1

Also, in regards to the other stats I posted, if a player logs the majority of the minutes at that position, it's a damn good indication. Let's say each player logs 80% of the time played at center. That means they are still responsible for 80% of the stats from that position. It's a great indication. If they only logged 25% of their time there I would agree with you.

Chandler only played 45 games last year, if he's not on the floor no way he is helping you no matter how much better he might be.

Also, neither player played 80% of the time at their position. Both guys averaged right around 30 minutes a game.

I agree that Chandler is the better defender, but Biedrins is the better player.

 

[JS22]

Trade Amare to the weakest team in the league for their next 3 unprotected 1st round picks... Why can't the Suns do a trade like that? To hear some people talk on this sight thats what he does already...[that the Suns would get nothing for a year]

Maybe because the other team has to agree?

 

[Folster]

Trade Amare to the weakest team in the league for their next 3 unprotected 1st round picks... Why can't the Suns do a trade like that? To hear some people talk on this sight thats what he does already...[that the Suns would get nothing for a year]

It doesn't work like that. Salaries have to match up within 25%. Amare has a history of injuries. He has an opt out after this season. He is a poor defender, can be a bit selfish/egotistical and has little leadership ability.

 

[Covert Rain]

Chandler only played 45 games last year, if he's not on the floor no way he is helping you no matter how much better he might be.

Also, neither player played 80% of the time at their position. Both guys averaged right around 30 minutes a game.

I agree that Chandler is the better defender, but Biedrins is the better player.

If you look at the Center data since Chandler got there it's been great and Chandler never has had a steady backup. Even if you go back before this season it's more of the same. Even if you want to discount Chandler's contribution, you cannot discount Biedrins contribution which landed the team a ranking of dead last in the NBA.

Also, looking at their individual numbers I posted, it only looks at each players specific stats FOR EVERY 48 Minutes they are on the court at that position. So, no matter how much you want to discount the team stats, their individual numbers are very telling. Now go back through the last couple of seasons and again....more of the same.

 

[cly2tw]

Chandler only played 45 games last year, if he's not on the floor no way he is helping you no matter how much better he might be.

Also, neither player played 80% of the time at their position. Both guys averaged right around 30 minutes a game.

I agree that Chandler is the better defender, but Biedrins is the better player.

But will the Suns defense become better now Biedrins mans the C position instead Shaq, and Amare partime? Biedrins was mainly responsible for GS's C def. ranking of #30, wasn't he?

 

[CardinalsFan11]

If you look at the Center data since Chandler got there it's been great and Chandler never has had a steady backup. Even if you go back before this season it's more of the same.

Also, looking at their individual numbers I posted, it only looks at each players specific stats FOR EVERY 48 Minutes they are on the court at that position. So, no matter how much you want to discount the team stats, their individual numbers are very telling. Now go back through the last couple of seasons and again....more of the same.

Per 48 minute stats are notoriously deceptive. The stats would be more convincing if they were per 100 possessions, I think that would be a better metric for this conversation.

Again, no doubt Chandler has been better in prior yearss. But with his current injury issues I don't think he will be putting up those numbers in the years to come.

 

[Covert Rain]

Per 48 minute stats are notoriously deceptive. The stats would be more convincing if they were per 100 possessions, I think that would be a better metric for this conversation.

Again, no doubt Chandler has been better in prior yearss. But with his current injury issues I don't think he will be putting up those numbers in the years to come.

Maybe when you look at the stat by itself. However, the team stats along with that stat are still good indication. That's why I looked at several indicators and not just one and looked at a couple seasons. Not to mention that every time we played GS, Amare when playing center worked the guy to death even being undersized at that position.

I totally agree with you that Chandler is a risk injury wise. However, if we pick up Chandler and he is healthy, at least their is hope for this team from a defensive standpoint.

Beidrins on the other hand has never shown the ability to play defense nor has any stat for that matter showed it either. There is not one indication which is not deceptive. That's more like wishing on a star.

 

[JoRain]

its actually a rumor now from Chad Ford that the Amare Stoudemire to Golden State discussions are dead.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Biedrins is a mediocre defender. He's not as bad as Amare, nor is he as bad as the stats indicate, because the Golden State system does hurt him. However, he's no Tyson Chandler defensively. Unless we can get a power forward who can score like Elton Brand, I don't mind having Chandler and Biedrins on the same team. Having TC is certainly better than having Ben Wallace's corpse.

 

[AsUdUdE]

its actually a rumor now from Chad Ford that the Amare Stoudemire to Golden State discussions are dead.

not dead.. but his source says it's not close..

He didn't say the trade was dead..