Reality Check

[conraddobler]

Relax.

Our coach will find us, when you have a young QB like Leinart there'll be a coach who's persistent and patient enough to wait out the job.

It'll work out unless those who shall remain nameless lock in on the one guy I don't want Ron R.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

With the 8-10 million we started the year in cap space it,Julian Peterson sure would've looked nice in Cardinal red. Weren't we initially interested in him but backed away after the Edge signing? A LB corp of Hayes, Dansby, and Peterson would be among the best around. But, at least we have Orlando Huff .

 

[BACH]

I am a little worried as well.

It tells me one of these things -

1. They "might" not even know what they want themselves. Hence interviewing everyone possible. Meaning they didnt really have a plan going into this. Most organizations have a short list of people when they try and fill their top spots becuase they already did their homework on them. I am not sure if we did that.

2. They already have a short list maybe even a #1 guy but want to make it look to the public they are doing their due diligence. Which could backfire with more and more jobs opening up and maybe even more after the games this coming sunday.

In either case it makes me more then a little nervous.

Or

3. They have already targeted Rivera/Cameron/Etc. They've had three days to interview them and then won't be able to talk to them until after next weekend at the earliest. Why sit and wait? Why not take other interviews and see if they have underestimated any of the other candidates?

 

[Stout]

Thanks, K9. Well said.

 

[Duckjake]

Jim Bates wasn't a surprise? The QB coach for Indy wasn't a surprise? Mike Sherman wasn't a surprise?

I mean, I don't think that any of those guys are going to get the job, but no one was bringing up their names here.


40, even after the Titans' salary cap purge following the 2003 season, Floyd Reese built teams that went 5-11, 4-12, and 8-8. The combined record would be 17-31. If I'm not mistaken, during the last three years, when the Cards have had remarkable cap health under Rod Graves, the team's gone 6-10, 5-11, and 5-11. The overall records are about the same, but isn't it a little remarkable that the Titans are actually getting better?

Well you threw enough obscure names out there that just about every Coordinator in the league was covered.

 

[40yearfan]

Jim Bates wasn't a surprise? The QB coach for Indy wasn't a surprise? Mike Sherman wasn't a surprise?

I mean, I don't think that any of those guys are going to get the job, but no one was bringing up their names here.


40, even after the Titans' salary cap purge following the 2003 season, Floyd Reese built teams that went 5-11, 4-12, and 8-8. The combined record would be 17-31. If I'm not mistaken, during the last three years, when the Cards have had remarkable cap health under Rod Graves, the team's gone 6-10, 5-11, and 5-11. The overall records are about the same, but isn't it a little remarkable that the Titans are actually getting better?

Nope, with a half way decent coach, the Cards would have gotten better this year. Are you trying to say that the Cards haven't increased their talent level but the Titans have? That the GM for the Titans is the only reason they went 8 and 8 this year after two miserable years, one of which they actually had a worse record than the Cards?

If we are going to judge R Graves on only the won/lost record, we have to be consistant and judge all GM's the same way. The past 3 years, Reese was no better than RG because his team had an identical won/lost record. That's an indisputable fact. You want to throw all these side issues into the argument for Reese,but won't allow any in for RG. Not very fair in my estimation. The reason the Titans had cap problems was because of Reese not in spite of him.

 

[lobo]

Yes, Whisenhunt was a complete waste of time and I don't understand why Caldwell or Grimm are being interviewed either. We could have openings in New York and Dallas by Tuesday and that will change the market completely.

don't you think that the scanario of both couglin and parcells being "plutoed"
( a new word i hear five minutes ago) or resigning entered into the reason to interview 7/8...there actually may be more than that..who knows. i give the organization credit for being open instead of seeing posts like "i saw nick saban at the airport".......

other teams coaches leaving is TOTALLY out of our control...and a "hot" candidate is going to play it cool to evaluate his options...the bottom line

not in order

comfort with ownership
$$$
how they view the current roster and what they think they can do with it in a reasonable timetable.

 

[Pariah]

The reason the Titans had cap problems was because of Reese not in spite of him.

That's the truth.

But, here's why this thread is as long as it is: Graves' supporters want to separate his preformance from the team's record. His detractors think the team's glaring personnel problems that went unaddressed contributed to the sub-par season (well, I guess it's closer to "par" for the Cards).

I say, how could the holes in personnel NOT have contributed to the team's shortcomings? If I had to make a choice between firing Green and Graves, I would have fired Green, too. But why does it always seem to be an either/or situation with the Cards? Why are they always sticking a thumb in the leaky dyke instead of making the repairs that are so clearly needed?

Let's nip a couple of objections in the bud:
"Bidwill put the clamp on spending after James."
Okay, so maybe we needed a GM (or VO of O, or whatever) that could loosen those purse-strings or advise that it's not a smart move to get James at the risk of having a depleted OL, LB and CB corps. Also, isn't it somewhat ironic that the same people that hide behind this claim are the same ones that bristle at the school of thought that the bidwills are "cheap?"

"The Cards DID bring in FA help."
Milford Brown I'll give you, even though it was dicey at best bringing in a lineman from the only line in the NFL worse than the Cards'. But where was the help at LB? CB? These are positions that as fans we all knew would be problematic. We also knew that adding a guard to the line wasn't going to cut it--even if the starters worked out, we were desperately thin behind them.

 

[joeshmo]

Or

3. They have already targeted Rivera/Cameron/Etc. They've had three days to interview them and then won't be able to talk to them until after next weekend at the earliest. Why sit and wait? Why not take other interviews and see if they have underestimated any of the other candidates?

Again they may have a person in mind after the 4 interviews we have done, but why such a huge list to begin with. All other teams or large organizations will have a short list after doing their homework, just look at the lists for all the other teams they are 3-4 people long. Having such a huge list screams of not knowing what you want when the process started or not doing your homework prior to when the process started.

I could be off base, but interviewing so many coaches just seems very odd.

Heck the Cards may actually may be doing something a little sneaky in that they already have their top 3 but are interviewing 8 of the top coaching candidates in the league to pick their brains for ideas for the team. Sort of a sneaky way of getting some consultation in the disguise of an interview. In that case its pure genius.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Well, Matt Millen's done a hell of a job so far. I think that you ought to have some success at some level in order to keep your job. Or just illustrate a committment to winning. Rod Graves has done nothing to earn another year on the job, much less a long-term extension.

Honestly, his primary goal seems to be maintaining employment and not building a winning football program. The one real decision that can be laid at his doorstep is--wait for it--the hiring of Dennis Green. If your primary decision results in abject failure, shouldn't you be held responsible?

POSTED BY RED NAILER on Cards Official site:

I wrote this in another post but before you praise Green then snub Graves on evaluating and drafting look at the facts. Graves drafted many solid players. Some are on other rosters and some are still here starting and playing strong. Graves guys are Boldin, Wilson, Hayes, BJ, Thomas Jones, Vanden Bosch, L Davis, Plummer, Shelton, Chavous, Darwin Walker, David Barrett, Clement, Shipp, Renaldo Hill, Pittman, Mark Smith, Marcus Bell, Ron McKinnion and don‘t forget Pat Tillman. 7 total Pro Bowlers have been born under Graves Drafts and if you want to count wack job David Boston then the total is 8.

Green has produced 1 (Fitz) and we are still waiting on others.

 

[ajcardfan]

POSTED BY RED NAILER on Cards Official site:

I wrote this in another post but before you praise Green then snub Graves on evaluating and drafting look at the facts. Graves drafted many solid players. Some are on other rosters and some are still here starting and playing strong. Graves guys are Boldin, Wilson, Hayes, BJ, Thomas Jones, Vanden Bosch, L Davis, Plummer, Shelton, Chavous, Darwin Walker, David Barrett, Clement, Shipp, Renaldo Hill, Pittman, Mark Smith, Marcus Bell, Ron McKinnion and don‘t forget Pat Tillman. 7 total Pro Bowlers have been born under Graves Drafts and if you want to count wack job David Boston then the total is 8.

Green has produced 1 (Fitz) and we are still waiting on others.

Most of those guys were picked under Bob Ferguson.

 

[ajcardfan]

Jim Bates wasn't a surprise?

He was surprise. Even the Cardinals were "surprised". On Thursday, they said he was not one of the guys they planned to interview. Apparently, Bates was interested but we weren't.

 

[kerouac9]

Nope, with a half way decent coach, the Cards would have gotten better this year. Are you trying to say that the Cards haven't increased their talent level but the Titans have? That the GM for the Titans is the only reason they went 8 and 8 this year after two miserable years, one of which they actually had a worse record than the Cards?

If we are going to judge R Graves on only the won/lost record, we have to be consistant and judge all GM's the same way. The past 3 years, Reese was no better than RG because his team had an identical won/lost record. That's an indisputable fact. You want to throw all these side issues into the argument for Reese,but won't allow any in for RG. Not very fair in my estimation. The reason the Titans had cap problems was because of Reese not in spite of him.

Do you even look at what I post? Titans record last three years: 17-31. Cards record the last three years: 16-32. The Titans record is better. If nothing else, what should the near-tiebreaker be? How about whether each team is improving? The Titans doubled their wins this season. The Cards treaded water.

If your arguement is that Reese is not better a GM than Graves, that's something that I think you're wrong about. But that's not my argument here. Mine is that the Cards should have at least looked at other candidates than Rod Graves before extending him, and the Reese would have been an experienced, qualified, successful person to at least have a conversation with and pick his brains.

I just think that it's unfortunate that the Cards didn't even try.

 

[football karma]

I dont think Graves is the utter disaster some think he is --

but I would much rather have Floyd Reese.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

not that i'm a fan of his, but why not talk to Charlie Casserly? They said on the pre-game show that he has drafted 4 consecutive players that have won the rookie of they year award.This year it was Demeco Ryans.

 

[football karma]

BTW--

just to throw another tangent to this thread--

I have heard that recent solid drafts have more to do with Steve Keim being in charge of scouting than Denny, Rod, etc.

Its a heck of lot easier to rank players if the base scouting information is really good. Thankfully, Steve is still with the organization.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

not that i'm a fan of his, but why not talk to Charlie Casserly? They said on the pre-game show that he has drafted 4 consecutive players that have won the rookie of they year award.This year it was Demeco Ryans.

It was interesting that Casserly, when asked about the Cards, indicated that management was committed to Pendy, and that the likely new HC would be an offensive guy. Riviera out????

 

[Sandan]

Do you even look at what I post? Titans record last three years: 17-31. Cards record the last three years: 16-32. The Titans record is better.

1 game better

 

[kerouac9]

1 game better

Don't forget not to add the next part, right? I'll remind you what I said:

If nothing else, what should the near-tiebreaker be? How about whether each team is improving? The Titans doubled their wins this season. The Cards treaded water.

Don't take anything out of context.

BTW, I'm still waiting for the part where you show me how the Cards looked around the league for someone better before re-signing Graves. Have you found the part where Michael Bidwill says "EXACTLY" that only "he just didn't mention names"?

 

[40yearfan]

Do you even look at what I post? Titans record last three years: 17-31. Cards record the last three years: 16-32. The Titans record is better. If nothing else, what should the near-tiebreaker be? How about whether each team is improving? The Titans doubled their wins this season. The Cards treaded water.

If your arguement is that Reese is not better a GM than Graves, that's something that I think you're wrong about. But that's not my argument here. Mine is that the Cards should have at least looked at other candidates than Rod Graves before extending him, and the Reese would have been an experienced, qualified, successful person to at least have a conversation with and pick his brains.

I just think that it's unfortunate that the Cards didn't even try.

K9, 1 game better and your going to hang your hat on that?

Look, I'm not saying Reese is a bad GM. I'm just saying that he's had a lot more time than RG to perfect his craft. To be fair, we should allow RG that time also. I truly believe that RG has learned by his mistakes. We shall find out soon. Right after the draft we should have a good indication. If this draft gets messed up, I'll admit I was wrong. If we have a draft similar to what we've had the past 3 years, then I will expect you to at least admit that Graves was responsible for upgrading the talent on this team.

 

[Stout]

K9, 1 game better and your going to hang your hat on that?

Look, I'm not saying Reese is a bad GM. I'm just saying that he's had a lot more time than RG to perfect his craft. To be fair, we should allow RG that time also. I truly believe that RG has learned by his mistakes. We shall find out soon. Right after the draft we should have a good indication. If this draft gets messed up, I'll admit I was wrong. If we have a draft similar to what we've had the past 3 years, then I will expect you to at least admit that Graves was responsible for upgrading the talent on this team.

There's no such thing as being fair in this business. None. It's cutthroat. I think Graves is simply going to toe the Bidwill line and do anything they say, and I would rather have a GM with the independence to conduct business as he sees fit. So, no, I do not think we need to be fair and give Graves more time.

 

[kerouac9]

K9, 1 game better and your going to hang your hat on that?

Look, I'm not saying Reese is a bad GM. I'm just saying that he's had a lot more time than RG to perfect his craft. To be fair, we should allow RG that time also. I truly believe that RG has learned by his mistakes. We shall find out soon. Right after the draft we should have a good indication. If this draft gets messed up, I'll admit I was wrong. If we have a draft similar to what we've had the past 3 years, then I will expect you to at least admit that Graves was responsible for upgrading the talent on this team.

Wait. Why? I'm not a fan of Rod Graves; I'm a fan of the Arizona Cardinals. The Arizona Cardinals, the team that I am a fan of, had the opportunity to get better by at least talking to some (at the very least) equally qualified people and find out what they think of this organization and the direction it could be heading.

If this team had the chance to get better by hiring a more experienced and successful executive and they passed, I don't understand why that should be forgiven. This team isn't in place to allow Rod Graves to become a better general manager. This team is in place to win games, right? Shouldn't that be the goal?

Ask Adrian Wilson or Anquan Boldin if they'd rather allow Rod Graves the chance to get better or have a guy that's built a Super Bowl team. Who would you rather play for?

 

[40yearfan]

There's no such thing as being fair in this business. None. It's cutthroat. I think Graves is simply going to toe the Bidwill line and do anything they say, and I would rather have a GM with the independence to conduct business as he sees fit. So, no, I do not think we need to be fair and give Graves more time.

Stout, you are asking for something you will not get. The Bidwills are not going to give a GM carte blanche with their money. Neither will 90% of the rest of the NFL owners. So what you are suggesting won't happen. In the absence of that happening, what else would you suggest.

 

[40yearfan]

Wait. Why? I'm not a fan of Rod Graves; I'm a fan of the Arizona Cardinals. The Arizona Cardinals, the team that I am a fan of, had the opportunity to get better by at least talking to some (at the very least) equally qualified people and find out what they think of this organization and the direction it could be heading.

If this team had the chance to get better by hiring a more experienced and successful executive and they passed, I don't understand why that should be forgiven. This team isn't in place to allow Rod Graves to become a better general manager. This team is in place to win games, right? Shouldn't that be the goal?

Ask Adrian Wilson or Anquan Boldin if they'd rather allow Rod Graves the chance to get better or have a guy that's built a Super Bowl team. Who would you rather play for?

The problem is K9 that it's only your opinion that Reese is better than RG. Apparently the Cards disagree with you. Remember that Reese only recently became available. He might not have even been a factor when they decided to extend RG's contract.

As far as asking the players, you are really going out on a limb here. How many of them concern themselves with anything other than their play on the field and their immediate coaching staff? We don't know if Wilson or Boldin even know who Reese is. We do know that RG was the guy who drafted Boldin. Don't you think that might influence Boldin's decision?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

The problem is K9 that it's only your opinion that Reese is better than RG. Apparently the Cards disagree with you. Remember that Reese only recently became available. He might not have even been a factor when they decided to extend RG's contract.

As far as asking the players, you are really going out on a limb here. How many of them concern themselves with anything other than their play on the field and their immediate coaching staff? We don't know if Wilson or Boldin even know who Reese is. We do know that RG was the guy who drafted Boldin. Don't you think that might influence Boldin's decision?

Jumpin in the middle here but it's pretty hard for the Cards to make that assessment when they didn't talk to Reese, or anyone else for that matter.