Recruiting

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I will take the best available players regardless of their past (JuCo or High School). It just doesn't work for me to call a player bad or a program bad because they recruit kids from junior college. I believe this is Graham's strategy as well, take the best football players (not pick them based where they are from, where they went to school, how they speak, what they wear or any other preconceived notions).

Kids end up in junior college for a variety of reasons and to say that you cannot be successful with them is just judging people (most 18-20 years old) for their past problems. I would say that is judgmental at the least to self-righteous at the worst. As mentioned earlier Cam Newton, Aaron Rodgers, Cordarelle Patterson, Star Lotulelei, Sheldon Richardson, and local recruits Marion Grice/Jaelen Strong went to junior college and have all turned out to be successful. IMO one of the coolest thing about America is most people are willing to give others a second chance.

Did you read my post? I said they could go on to be model citizens. Also said that the majority of kids who end up in JC do so because of off the field problems whether its behavioral or academic. That's just reality and has nothing to with their character at heart more their decision-making. Can they turn it around? Sure, but for every one of those kids mentioned earlier there's countless more that haven't panned out.

Recruiting out of the high school ranks gives coaches a better perspective into a recruit and his family. Plus it gives you five years instead of two to mold him both off and on the field. And for a selfish perspective my favorite players historically both pro and in amateur have been the guys that start and finish their careers in one place. Junior college kids come and go before you know it.

Not to mention recruiting juco's takes away two or three years of development ability. You mentioned 'take the best players' however the 21 year old man might be the better player vs the 17 year old kid. But with three years in the gym and with some personal development that same kid could be a freakish All American NFL talent while the JUCO while able to play year 1 put in two producing yet average years before disappearing.

 

[Mainstreet]

Did you read my post? I said they could go on to be model citizens. Also said that the majority of kids who end up in JC do so because of off the field problems whether its behavioral or academic. That's just reality and has nothing to with their character at heart more their decision-making. Can they turn it around? Sure, but for every one of those kids mentioned earlier there's countless more that haven't panned out.

Recruiting out of the high school ranks gives coaches a better perspective into a recruit and his family. Plus it gives you five years instead of two to mold him both off and on the field. And for a selfish perspective my favorite players historically both pro and in amateur have been the guys that start and finish their careers in one place. Junior college kids come and go before you know it.

Not to mention recruiting juco's takes away two or three years of development ability. You mentioned 'take the best players' however the 21 year old man might be the better player vs the 17 year old kid. But with three years in the gym and with some personal development that same kid could be a freakish All American NFL talent while the JUCO while able to play year 1 put in two producing yet average years before disappearing.

Junior College offers recruits another a path to a a major college they might not otherwise have. Life is not perfect and not everyone comes out of high school and is able to go to a major college right away. You seem to superficially accept this idea, but then revert to a "selfish perspective." Again, life is not perfect and the ideal way is not the only way. I do not have a problem with ASU adding some quality JC athletes to their roster.

 

[Gaddabout]

I agree with Mao that JC transfers are rife with off-the-field issues. However, I think you can usually see those problem children coming a mile away, and there's typically a public record that's easily obtainable. The JCs ASU has brought in haven't been of those variety.

I think it's equally problematic when you take BCS transfers. Not indicting, just saying it's a similar problem.

Also note that most of the JCs ASU brings in aren't just desperate attempts to plug holes. Almost all of them are (or have been) among the Top 25 ranked JC players in the country. Three of the JC transfers this year have made the list. Marion Grice and Jaelen Strong were among the most sought-after JC transfers of their class. These aren't obscure 2-star guards with a name change, hiding from their East Coast probation officers.

 

[Gaddabout]

Junior College offers recruits another a path to a a major college they might not otherwise have. Life is not perfect and not everyone comes out of high school and is able to go to a major college right away. You seem to superficially accept this idea, but then revert to a "selfish perspective." Again, life is not perfect and the ideal way is not the only way. I do not have a problem with ASU adding some quality JC athletes to their roster.

I think the bigger issue Mao points to is legitimate: You can't rely heavily on JCs to fill your roster. It's a supply-chain issue. If you're constantly overturning your roster in huge numbers every year, you're going to run into a depth issue. It's also harder to assess the ability of a JC athlete than a prep athlete -- you see more misses.

 

[HooverDam]

I agree with Mao that JC transfers are rife with off-the-field issues. However, I think you can usually see those problem children coming a mile away, and there's typically a public record that's easily obtainable. The JCs ASU has brought in haven't been of those variety.

I think it's equally problematic when you take BCS transfers. Not indicting, just saying it's a similar problem.

Also note that most of the JCs ASU brings in aren't just desperate attempts to plug holes. Almost all of them are (or have been) among the Top 25 ranked JC players in the country. Three of the JC transfers this year have made the list. Marion Grice and Jaelen Strong were among the most sought-after JC transfers of their class. These aren't obscure 2-star guards with a name change, hiding from their East Coast probation officers.

Additionally, Graham has done a good job bringing in JC guys with 3 years to play, which is nice.

The number of JC guys Graham has brought in was less this year and I imagine it will continue to dwindle until they settle into getting 3-5 a year, which is fine.

 

[Absolute Zero]

So, how does Arizona State's recruiting class compare to Arizona's?

 

[Azlen]

Looks like Kalen Ballage is keeping his ASU commitment.

https://twitter.com/CoachGrahamASU/status/431488787542077440

Huge Boom from the Valley of the Sun! Welcome aboard Kalen Ballage!!! #ASUSigningDayExtended #SunDevilBrotherhood

 

[Azlen]

So, how does Arizona State's recruiting class compare to Arizona's?

Obviously opinions are going to vary but everything I have seen has ASU as the third or fourth ranked class in the Pac with UofA a spot or two below them.

 

[devilalum]

Looks like Kalen Ballage is keeping his ASU commitment.

https://twitter.com/CoachGrahamASU/status/431488787542077440

Huge Boom from the Valley of the Sun! Welcome aboard Kalen Ballage!!! #ASUSigningDayExtended #SunDevilBrotherhood

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U59xDP543LU

 

[HooverDam]

Obviously opinions are going to vary but everything I have seen has ASU as the third or fourth ranked class in the Pac with UofA a spot or two below them.

Scout has the following (rankings are overall)

10. USC
16. ASU
18. Stanford
20. UCLA
22. Oregon
30. Arizona
36. Washington
43. Cal
48. Oregon St
56. Wazzu
69. Utah
72. Colorado

Rivals: (rankings are just for the P-12 here)

1. USC
2. Stanford
3. UCLA
4. ASU
5. Oregon
6. Arizona
7. Washington
8. Cal
9. Oregon St
10. Colorado
11. Utah
12. Wazzu


ESPN: (overall)
14. USC
15. Stanford
21. ASU
23. Arizona
26. UCLA
27. Oregon
45. Washington
46. Cal
61. Wazzu
64. Utah
67. Oregon St
71. Colorado

24/7 Sports (these are just for the Pac)
1. USC
2. Stanford
3. UCLA
4. Oregon
5. ASU
6. UofA
7. Washington
8. Cal
9. Oregon St
10. Utah
11. Wazzu
12. Colorado

I'm not entirely sure how up to date all of those are either. With Ballage committing today, ASU should move up a slight bit too.

ASU and UofA both had nice classes. ASUs classes have been steadily improving since Graham's arrival. ASUs class fills a lot of holes, and like Graham says about the only thing they missed out on was a high quality 3rd offensive lineman.

This class also lacks one super star 5 star guy, like a Burfict to headline the class. There's a lot of guys who may come in and contribute soon, but I don't know if as of this moment there's 1 stand out among the class. Though perhaps that means that overall the quality is improving depth wise.

Would've like to have done better w/ the local kids too. All in all, the class is a B+ at very worst.

 

[Jay Cardinal]

So, how does Arizona State's recruiting class compare to Arizona's?

Both schools did their best in years. I like ASU's better, but I wouldn't be surprised if the kitties like their class better. ASU's best recruiting class since the mid-90's for sure. UA had a number of solid recruits that could play for any team in the country, certainly their best recruiting class that I can remember. If we can just keep some of the top Arizona high school talent in state now....

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Both schools did their best in years. I like ASU's better, but I wouldn't be surprised if the kitties like their class better. ASU's best recruiting class since the mid-90's for sure. UA had a number of solid recruits that could play for any team in the country, certainly their best recruiting class that I can remember. If we can just keep some of the top Arizona high school talent in state now....

On paper ASU's is slightly better but nobody will know for a few more years. The difference is basically one or two recruits, not like Utah State vs Alabama. Local recruiting for both was subpar, the two "can't miss" guys only paid lip service to ASU and UA.

Thing everyone also has to realize is yesterday was the last time you'll ever hear from half the guys that committed. At least half will never produce or they'll wash out. You reduce that half to a third and you have a monster class or vice versa.

 

[Jay Cardinal]

Looks like Kalen Ballage is keeping his ASU commitment.

https://twitter.com/CoachGrahamASU/status/431488787542077440

Huge Boom from the Valley of the Sun! Welcome aboard Kalen Ballage!!! #ASUSigningDayExtended #SunDevilBrotherhood

What an awesome running back class. Demario Richard, Gump Hayes, and Kalen Ballage. 3 totally different types of RBs, all unique in how they play. I think Ballage was a great choice once Darrel Williams de-committed, could be as good or better than him.

 

[TJ]

Both schools did their best in years. I like ASU's better, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Wildcats like their class better. ASU's best recruiting class since the mid-90's for sure. UA had a number of solid recruits that could play for any team in the country, certainly their best recruiting class that I can remember. If we can just keep some of the top Arizona high school talent in state now....

Both classes filled needs. I'm not going to say one is better than the other, but I am almost more excited about the three transfers that will be playing this year (Brewer, Neal, Jones). These are players that aren't accounted for in Rivals or ESPN rankings, but will provide an immediate impact for the team.

My only gripe about our class going into yesterday was depth along the D-Line; however, Marcus Griffin, a 4* DE, chose us over Mississippi State. Now, it's hard to find anything to complain about.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think the bigger issue Mao points to is legitimate: You can't rely heavily on JCs to fill your roster. It's a supply-chain issue. If you're constantly overturning your roster in huge numbers every year, you're going to run into a depth issue. It's also harder to assess the ability of a JC athlete than a prep athlete -- you see more misses.

I was talking about the Sun Devils JC recruits. I believe ASU signed 5 JC recruits so out of a believed class of 25, that would be 20%. I would like to see that number lower as well. However, just guessing, but I bet those 5 recruits have a better chance of impacting the ASU roster than those high school kids as percentage. I know the counter argument... they need to fill holes on the roster. The answer will not be known for awhile.

Of course, it is naturally better to recruit kids out of high school to have them longer in the program but there is a failure to produce and a wash out rate there as well. The bottom line, it is the quality of the recruit. Perhaps I am more sympathetic to some JC recruits because I know they have a tougher road to get there.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

http://arizonastate.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1613749

Checked out his name on Twitter, sounds like lots of Texas people were pissed he was let go. Could be a big add.

 

[HooverDam]

http://arizonastate.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1613749

Checked out his name on Twitter, sounds like lots of Texas people were pissed he was let go. Could be a big add.

Recruited for Alabama and Texas, nice resume. Hope he does well here.

 

[ajcardfan]

http://arizonastate.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1613749

Checked out his name on Twitter, sounds like lots of Texas people were pissed he was let go. Could be a big add.

This is actually pretty huge for ASU. If they can tap into Texas, that is an area where they can separate themselves from most PAC 12 programs. Texas is second to none in football talent. Only Florida and California can compete in the discussion as to states with the most football talent.

 

[Jay Cardinal]

This is actually pretty huge for ASU. If they can tap into Texas, that is an area where they can separate themselves from most PAC 12 programs. Texas is second to none in football talent. Only Florida and California can compete in the discussion as to states with the most football talent.

Agreed. The Houston area in particular really stands out. Lots of size and speed in that area.

http://247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/RecruitRankings?State=TX

 

[Azlen]

Chandler QB Bryce Perkins has made an early commit to ASU. Obert is saying he is Graham's 2nd biggest in state recruit behind DJ Foster. Obert speculates that his commitment may encourage other in state talent to stay home as well but only time will tell.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/ober...-bryce-perkins-asu-commitment-impact/7248301/

Chandler junior quarterback Bryce Perkins, a leader on and off the football field, is the kind of guy others like to follow. And with his commitment Wednesday night to Arizona State, more top in-state athletes could follow him.

 

[HooverDam]

Lets hope he's Manny Wilkins 2.0 in terms of recruiting. I wonder if he'll switch to Safety or WR in college. With Wilkins and Gerhardt ahead of him and ASU probably still recruitng Lewerke the QB from Pinnacle there may not be tons of opportunity at QB.

 

[Absolute Zero]

Great news

 

[overseascardfan]

ASU the last couple of year's got an early commit from a top ARZ recruit (Cox, Whiley) it didn't open the flood gates to other major ARZ talent. Perkins is a great get but a lot of kids will head out of state and ironically this will be a down year in terms of talent as there really isn't a nationally known guy from ARZ this year unlike last year with Allen or Peat the year before. In state schools should clean up this year but its kid's desire to get away from home that will hurt ASU & UA. ASU had a great year last year but only got 3 in-state guys, so you can't say win games and they will come. OL Jake Grant just committed to Utah last week, granted he did not have an offer from either ASU or UA but ASU could use as many OL recruits as they can get, especially when they are in their own back yard.

 

[Azlen]

ASU the last couple of year's got an early commit from a top ARZ recruit (Cox, Whiley) it didn't open the flood gates to other major ARZ talent. Perkins is a great get but a lot of kids will head out of state and ironically this will be a down year in terms of talent as there really isn't a nationally known guy from ARZ this year unlike last year with Allen or Peat the year before.

Christian Kirk would fall into that category. He's being recruited by schools like Florida St, Auburn Oklahoma and Oregon.

 

[HooverDam]

ASU the last couple of year's got an early commit from a top ARZ recruit (Cox, Whiley) it didn't open the flood gates to other major ARZ talent. Perkins is a great get but a lot of kids will head out of state and ironically this will be a down year in terms of talent as there really isn't a nationally known guy from ARZ this year unlike last year with Allen or Peat the year before. In state schools should clean up this year but its kid's desire to get away from home that will hurt ASU & UA. ASU had a great year last year but only got 3 in-state guys, so you can't say win games and they will come. OL Jake Grant just committed to Utah last week, granted he did not have an offer from either ASU or UA but ASU could use as many OL recruits as they can get, especially when they are in their own back yard.

Like AzLen mentioned, Christian Kirk is certainly on the national level. He's a high 4 star and even 5 star on some services.

The floodgates for local recruits for ASU I think haven't opened because the local guys know ASU best. They've seen the lack of consistency, the perpetually slipping back into mediocrity, etc. It may take them longer than the outsiders to buy into Graham.

Last year ASU won their division and 10 games, a good start. If they can do well this year and win 9+, I think they'd be well on their way to turning it around in local recruiting.