Recruiting
- Thread starter Gaddabout
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82CardsGrad
7 x 70
Yep - that's the kid! Nice snag for the Devils!!
Jay Cardinal
Die Hard Cardinals Fan
What a great day. Our D-line continues to improve. Former South Carolina commit Darrius Caldwell (Stuckey's junior college teammate) flips to ASU.
http://www.thesundevils.com/ViewArt...13&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=30300&ATCLID=209396849
http://www.thesundevils.com/ViewArt...13&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=30300&ATCLID=209396849
Zobaczcie suki
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Holy crap, so is his teammate & buddy DE (6-5 245) Darrius Caldwell that had been committed to South Carolina. They visited ASU together and now we have both of them it looks like.
http://www.houseofsparky.com/2014/2/5/5383010/national-signing-day-2014-darrius-caldwell-asu
devilalum
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Have any players flipped away from ASU in the last two days?
Jay Cardinal
Die Hard Cardinals Fan
As far as I know none have yet. I am hearing Jordan Thomas was asked to grey shirt as Caldwell took his spot. Last spot being held for Kalen Ballage. He is announcing tomorrow instead of today, as schools are closed due to snow in the Colorado Springs area.
Zobaczcie suki
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Looks like we are bringing in 6 talented JuCo players, I think that will really help us fill some holes in light of the large number of departures from last year's team. But I am sure the U of A folks will complain about that for some reason.
MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
Why would smart UofA fans complain about ASU bringing in junior college players? Anyone who follows college sports would take a highly rated high school kid over a junior college kid on any day of the week. Elite programs are overwhelmingly made up of 4/5* high school recruits. Schools that recruit a lot of JUCO's have the same ceiling as Kansas State.
OP
OP
Times have changed. Every SEC program takes a couple a year. ASU hasn't taken an overwhelming amount in any class.
There aren't any 5-year rebuilding programs anymore. You have two or three years or you're cooked.
MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
The latter comment might be the case at ASU and their unrealistic fanbase but is certainly not the case at every program. A "couple a year" only reaffirms my point that elite programs build their teams around high school kids. 10-15% of a class is just filling gaps.
And for the record I felt Rodriguez too way too many JUCO's this year. Their hit rate is way too low for their limited upside. If you're that good and your grades suck more often than not you'll find someone to take you out of high school.
OP
OP
Alabama used to never take JCs. They are now regular players on the JC circuit. South Carolina is just about there now, and they've been taking JCs the whole time. Oklahoma takes a lot of JCs.
Elite programs recruit elite preps. That's obvious. Becoming elite is a less obvious and more diverse path. You can't get there if you write off an entire talent base because of programmatic bias. Not anymore. You simply have to be better at evaluation than your peers -- at prep or JC level. There's no substitute.
MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
Best programs in the West were Carroll USC, then Chip Kelly Oregon, now Shaw Stanford. All rarely if ever recruited JUCO's.
Comparing SEC to Pac recruiting is apples to oranges. Systems and programs win in the West.
Ericksons classes were progressively getting worse and worse as his tenure wore on. The highly ranked players he did land often didn't develop, suffered injuries or were block heads. Its obvious Graham has had to hit the JC route, perhaps a bit more than ideal, in order to fill the gaps and win now. Its a gambling strategy, but one that seems to be paying off. Graham has won in his 1st two years, and now ASU looks like they'll finish with a Top 20 overall class and the #1 class in the conference...not too shabby.
It would've been nice to get more of the home grown guys, as I dont think recruiting nationally is as sustainable. It also would've been nice to get some more beef on the O-line. All in all though, this class is at worst an A-, and potentially the kind of class that Rose Bowl teams are made of.
It would've been nice to get more of the home grown guys, as I dont think recruiting nationally is as sustainable. It also would've been nice to get some more beef on the O-line. All in all though, this class is at worst an A-, and potentially the kind of class that Rose Bowl teams are made of.
OP
OP
All three of those programs have advantages neither ASU nor UA will ever have.
TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
1) why are you worried about what we think?
2) I'd rather get a 3-star player out of high school and groom him for a season or two than rely solely on high rank Juco players, whom are expected to contribute immediately and sometimes come into programs with baggage, which hindered their ability to get into a 4-year program out of high school (I worked with one of the top JuCo teams in the nation a few years ago). this is something that Utah has been guilty of for a while.
Wasn't Cam Newton a JuCo transfer?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...keyshawn-johnson-juco-transfers-to-no-1-picks
Times are changing
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...keyshawn-johnson-juco-transfers-to-no-1-picks
Times are changing
Zobaczcie suki
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1) I am not worried about what you all think, I was just anticipating that you all would bring it up and, sure enough--here we are.
2) Well, we have 20 or so high school commits. We are not relying "solely" on high ranked juco players as you suggest. And I am not aware of any baggage with these guys at this point.
MaoTosiFanClub
The problem
Yes, because he got kicked off Florida. That's a common theme with many juco's, the other is that they weren't smart enough to achieve the bare bones requirements to get into a university out of high school so they won't exactly be model students.
Listen, there's nothing inherently wrong with recruiting junior college players. Some of them will go to the NFL or fill a gap where needed or be good citizens and students. Just saying I'd rather have HS kids than JC kids any day of the week.
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TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Like Johnny Manziel who was a three star? Oh wait, he only played two years like most JuCo's will.
Not an accurate example. He redshirted his first year, then played in two. That redshirt year is instrumental for true freshmen QBs to get acclimated to the team's style of offense and overall speed of NCAA ball before being thrown to the wolves.
Jay Cardinal
Die Hard Cardinals Fan
I will take the best available players regardless of their past (JuCo or High School). It just doesn't work for me to call a player bad or a program bad because they recruit kids from junior college. I believe this is Graham's strategy as well, take the best football players (not pick them based where they are from, where they went to school, how they speak, what they wear or any other preconceived notions).
Kids end up in junior college for a variety of reasons and to say that you cannot be successful with them is just judging people (most 18-20 years old) for their past problems. I would say that is judgmental at the least to self-righteous at the worst. As mentioned earlier Cam Newton, Aaron Rodgers, Cordarelle Patterson, Star Lotulelei, Sheldon Richardson, and local recruits Marion Grice/Jaelen Strong went to junior college and have all turned out to be successful. IMO one of the coolest thing about America is most people are willing to give others a second chance.
