ReHashed Trade Rumors

[HooverDam]

I'm overvaluing Boris Diaw? In my opinion, you (and about 85% of the board) are FAR overvaluing TJ Ford and underrating Boris. Ford is an injury waiting to happen. Boris can at least be dynamic. And again, we're talking about a coaching philosophy change here. There's a reason why LB could never play defense. A big part of it was the presence of the D'Antoni brothers. Now we have a new coach and these guys are good enough that they deserve to be given the benefit of the doubt.

If a good trade comes along that is too hard to pass up (CERTAINLY NOT the #17/TJ Ford deal), then do it. But the hypocrisy on the board is a bit overwhelming. Complaining about the lack of strength of the bench, yet advocating jettisoning off what little strength we have there for a chronically injured point guard and a draft pick that will get little or not playing time. Good idea!

EDIT: To be fair, I am for the LAC trade idea. I am 100% against the TOR one.

Someone PLEASE explain to me how getting clothes-lined makes someone injury proned! Kevin Johnson was injury proned, he had the same naggging injuries over and over. Having a rookie claw your face while you're in a mid air is just dumb luck, not injury proned.

I don't see any hypocrisy in wanting to move Diaw. How is the potential, yet realistic roster I posted not deeper than what the Suns have had in the last few years? You actually have a solid, proven back ups at every position except the 5, but Skinner can play both 4 and 5.

I think its silly that people keep knocking TJ Ford for not being a complete player, well obviously, his team is looking to trade him! He'd be a back up here (shhh, he hasn't said anything about not wanting to be a backup to a Hall of Famer, so lets not start that silliness again). Is he 6'5'' and can post up smaller guards? No, but how many available back up point guards are out there like that? I guess what you have to ask yourself is: would you rather have TJ Ford or no one. Because I really don't trust Kerr to find anyone else.

Furthermore, doing both the Clippers and Raptors deals gives the Suns their future back. Recently (and currently) the Suns future looks pretty bleak after O'Neal, Hill, Nash and Bell all hang it up right around the same time. With those deals, you have guys with potential (not all of them will work out I'm sure, but potential) at every position. Once Nash and O'Neals contracts come off, being able to build around a 5 some of TJ Ford-Eric Gordon-Corey Maggette-Amare Stoudemire-DeAndre Jordan sounds like a pretty sweet proposition to me.

 

[Chaplin]

Someone PLEASE explain to me how getting clothes-lined makes someone injury proned! Kevin Johnson was injury proned, he had the same naggging injuries over and over. Having a rookie claw your face while you're in a mid air is just dumb luck, not injury proned.

TJ Ford has been injured more than once.

I don't see any hypocrisy in wanting to move Diaw. How is the potential, yet realistic roster I posted not deeper than what the Suns have had in the last few years? You actually have a solid, proven back ups at every position except the 5, but Skinner can play both 4 and 5.

Your roster is dependent on everything going the Suns way--and you and I both know that things never turn out that way. Your full roster is predicated on 2 trades that you'd love to do in a perfect world. But this isn't a perfect world. This is the NBA, and really, this league is far, far from perfect. And what makes you think, given the Suns history, that they would be successful in making all these trades?

I think its silly that people keep knocking TJ Ford for not being a complete player, well obviously, his team is looking to trade him! He'd be a back up here (shhh, he hasn't said anything about not wanting to be a backup to a Hall of Famer, so lets not start that silliness again). Is he 6'5'' and can post up smaller guards? No, but how many available back up point guards are out there like that? I guess what you have to ask yourself is: would you rather have TJ Ford or no one. Because I really don't trust Kerr to find anyone else.

If it was TJ Ford or no one as a choice, sure, I'd go for Ford. But the issue here is Ford for Boris, and I would not rather have that. You even said it yourself, his team is looking to trade him! Doesn't that set off a red flag at all with you? And do the Suns want to get a player exiled from a team ran by Bryan Colangelo? Ask yourself why they want to get rid of him.

Furthermore, doing both the Clippers and Raptors deals gives the Suns their future back. Recently (and currently) the Suns future looks pretty bleak after O'Neal, Hill, Nash and Bell all hang it up right around the same time. With those deals, you have guys with potential (not all of them will work out I'm sure, but potential) at every position. Once Nash and O'Neals contracts come off, being able to build around a 5 some of TJ Ford-Eric Gordon-Corey Maggette-Amare Stoudemire-DeAndre Jordan sounds like a pretty sweet proposition to me.

Again, this is extreme wishful thinking and the odds of this happening exactly like you want it are virtually nil. The words "build around" and "TJ Ford" have no business being in the same sentence right now. There are just too many question marks.

 

[HooverDam]

TJ Ford has been injured more than once.

Injury prone generally means having the same nagging injuries over and over. In reality, Amare's knees are more injury prone than TJ Fords face.

Your roster is dependent on everything going the Suns way--and you and I both know that things never turn out that way. Your full roster is predicated on 2 trades that you'd love to do in a perfect world. But this isn't a perfect world. This is the NBA, and really, this league is far, far from perfect. And what makes you think, given the Suns history, that they would be successful in making all these trades?

"All these trades"? Its TWO trades, that are apparently both off the table. If Steve Kerr can't call back LA and Toronto and say "Yes, I'd like to do the deal YOU offered" he ought to be fired.

If it was TJ Ford or no one as a choice, sure, I'd go for Ford. But the issue here is Ford for Boris, and I would not rather have that. You even said it yourself, his team is looking to trade him! Doesn't that set off a red flag at all with you? And do the Suns want to get a player exiled from a team ran by Bryan Colangelo? Ask yourself why they want to get rid of him.

Our team is looking to trade Boris, doesn't that set off a red flag to you? Thats an insane argument. Good players get traded all the time for all sorts of reasons.

Again, this is extreme wishful thinking and the odds of this happening exactly like you want it are virtually nil. The words "build around" and "TJ Ford" have no business being in the same sentence right now. There are just too many question marks.

Where is the wishful thinking? You think there won't be a Shooting Guard available at 7 and there won't be one of the big man projects at 17? Anything can happen in the draft sure, but sometimes you have to take a risk.

In my opinion, the Suns are far worse today then they were at the end of last year. They need to make some fairly big moves (like these 2 deals) if they 1. want to consider themselves a contender, 2. have a future.

 

[nowagimp]

I agree with that statement wholeheartedly but still ,it's a fact that this team is and has been a porous defensive team for many years and as a result has magnified the offensive skills of many players that have faced our guards,forwards, etc on a nightly basis. Scoring season & career highs against the SUNS has been the norm for the opposition for a reason. We've been a bad defensive team.

Yep the suns are a bad defensive team, so its risky to assume the offensive talents of a prospective trade target are as good as they looked against the suns, it might even be stupid to do so. In fact TJ's( or whomever the target is) performances against OTHER teams is more relevant. Unfortunately suns fans will make their evals mostly on the performances against their team, and thats almost irrelevant. Hey if he nasty against bad defense how will he be against the spurs, Jazz or Hornets?

 

[Bigdez22]

chap

You are grossly overrating Doris and you say we are grossly overrating Ford

You want to keep him and hold his hand and we want to trade him so our PG does not play 40 min a game.

I could think of 100 other players i would want......BUT NOBODY WANTS HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would rather ship him out for Ford and 17 then watch him drive the lane and......pass the ball out for a 22 ft jump shot again. I would rather have ford at 5-10 160 drive the lane like a man and try to make a bucket, Then watch Doris at 6-8 245 pass like a punk. Do you watch the Suns? have you seen him play the past 2 years?

You keep talking about value.......HE HAS NO VALUE!!!!!!!!!!
What do you want for him Chap. Lets save some time and you tell us what you think his value is.

 

[nashman]

If you think TJ is better than Boris you really need to watch more basketball, Boris at least has the ability to be very good. No thanks to TJ and a pick that won't be very good anyway.

 

[mojorizen7]

Yep the suns are a bad defensive team, so its risky to assume the offensive talents of a prospective trade target are as good as they looked against the suns, it might even be stupid to do so. In fact TJ's( or whomever the target is) performances against OTHER teams is more relevant. Unfortunately suns fans will make their evals mostly on the performances against their team, and thats almost irrelevant. Hey if he nasty against bad defense how will he be against the spurs, Jazz or Hornets?

Exactly, which is why it's important for armchair Gm's like us to watch as much basketball of other teams as possible on TNT in order to make accurate assessments of a players worth & tendency's.

 

[Chaplin]

If you think TJ is better than Boris you really need to watch more basketball, Boris at least has the ability to be very good. No thanks to TJ and a pick that won't be very good anyway.

Exactly.

Boris and Ford make about the same amount of money. But they are certainly not equal in talent. Ford's problem is his injury history. Perhaps "prone" is the wrong word, but I don't want a guy who any given day could lose a leg.

Boris has the potential to be twice the player Ford is or ever will be. Will he realize it? We don't know, that's what Porter is here to figure out. I say we give him a chance.

 

[PhxGametime]

What's the rumor on ESPN Insider about Suns being interested in Nesterovic?? For the people with Insider...

 

[Bigdez22]

can someone please tell me what fair value is for Doris Diaw???????????????

What does a guy whos stats have gone down 2 years in a row and makes 9 mill a season worth

David Lee.....A guy who scores more PPG then Diaw with half the talent and doubles what he gets in REB in the same amount of time?

I just dont understand how anyone who has watched the suns the last 2 years can think like this.....He got paid. Thats all he cares about. There is no way you can play like he did 3 years ago.....3 YEARS AGO!!!!!!......and just by chance go to crap. He does not care about wins. He does not care about going for the championship. He does not care that he plays for one of the best teams in the NBA.

I could see your argument if it was due to injury. Then I would be in the same boat you are. lets see, out of 164 games he has played in.....155 games the last 2 years.....so

What is the value of a guy whos stats have gone down the last 2 years, does not care about winning, is scared to take the ball to the hole, and makes 9 mill a season

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

can someone please tell me what fair value is for Doris Diaw???????????????

What does a guy whos stats have gone down 2 years in a row and makes 9 mill a season worth

David Lee.....A guy who scores more PPG then Diaw with half the talent and doubles what he gets in REB in the same amount of time?

I just dont understand how anyone who has watched the suns the last 2 years can think like this.....He got paid. Thats all he cares about. There is no way you can play like he did 3 years ago.....3 YEARS AGO!!!!!!......and just by chance go to crap. He does not care about wins. He does not care about going for the championship. He does not care that he plays for one of the best teams in the NBA.

I could see your argument if it was due to injury. Then I would be in the same boat you are. lets see, out of 164 games he has played in.....155 games the last 2 years.....so

What is the value of a guy whos stats have gone down the last 2 years, does not care about winning, is scared to take the ball to the hole, and makes 9 mill a season

ding, ding, ding! winna!

this is a dude that played for a crap team where he could have been the man. he's played for a contender where he's put up good (not great, mind you, but good) numbers for ONE year. neither situation seemed to motivate him, but now he's suddenly going to change? he's been in the league, what, 5 years? he is what he is. soft serve. $9million worth of soft serve.

 

[mojorizen7]

Found this "comprehensive" article on RealGM. Thing is, they cited ESPN.com for a source yet i can't find anything there related to this.
This trade is too good to be true....literally.



http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53156/20080624/suns_and_clippers_talking_barbosa_trade/

Suns And Clippers Talking Barbosa Trade?

Jun 24, 2008 9:57 AM EST

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The Suns and Clippers are reportedly discussing a deal that would send the No. 7 pick and Corey Maggette to Phoenix for the No. 15 selection and Leandro Barbosa, according to ESPN.com.
The deal can only be approved if Maggette decides not to opt out of his contract. If he does decide to opt out, he cannot be signed-and-trade until mid-July.
Via ESPN
Phoenix Suns, Los Angeles Clippers

 

[overseascardfan]

How about this, best of both trades.

Barbosa to POR for Jack, Outlaw, & #13

Diaw to TOR for Nesterovic and #17

#13 - Brandon Rush
#15 - Darrell Arthur
#17 - DeAndre Jordan

Get our PG and SF from POR, back up C in Rasho, whose contract expires after this year, the guy we've been targeting (Rush) to play SG, & two young bigs that can be mentored by Shaq & Amare.

 

[HooverDam]

How about this, best of both trades.

Barbosa to POR for Jack, Outlaw, & #13

Diaw to TOR for Nesterovic and #17

#13 - Brandon Rush
#15 - Darrell Arthur
#17 - DeAndre Jordan

Get our PG and SF from POR, back up C in Rasho, whose contract expires after this year, the guy we've been targeting (Rush) to play SG, & two young bigs that can be mentored by Shaq & Amare.

I don't think Portland would do that deal. One of the positions they're weak at is SF, so I don't see them trading away a nice SF project, a combo guard AND a pick for LB.

I don't really like the Diaw deal there. Nesterovic isn't terrible, he's an alright defender but overall he's not nearly the player Diaw is and he's not as versatile. I'd feel like the Suns need to get more in that deal with Toronto make it fair. Perhaps a 2nd round pick, but TOR doesn't have one this year.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Looking at the Memphis rumor, we might be making a play for their pick by taking "Brian Cardinal's awful contract" off their hands.

Barbs for Cardinal/Lowry/5 works post-season.

Nash/Lowry
Bell/(#5)/Strawberry
Hill/Diaw/Tucker
Amare/Cardinal
Shaq/(#15)

 

[Folster]

Boris Diaw for Nesterovic and the #17?

Ughh. There had better be someone the Suns really want at 17 for me to be able to stomach that one. Nesterovic would have to be expiring as well.

 

[HooverDam]

Looking at the Memphis rumor, we might be making a play for their pick by taking "Brian Cardinal's awful contract" off their hands.

Barbs for Cardinal/Lowry/5 works post-season.

Nash/Lowry
Bell/(#5)/Strawberry
Hill/Diaw/Tucker
Amare/Cardinal
Shaq/(#15)

I don't think that deal is better than the deal with LAC. Also, I'd be petrified of the Suns taking someone like Kevin Love (bleck) with number 5.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

New stuff from Jerry Brown at the EVT:

Rumors that have bubbled to the surface — a Portland deal involving Martell Webster, Clippers talks that might bring Corey Maggette or a New Jersey swap for Phoenix product Richard Jefferson — have been waved off by sources. The same goes for any talks with former coach Mike D’Antoni and the Knicks involving the No. 6 pick.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

New stuff from Jerry Brown at the EVT:

in other words, disregard this entire thread.

 

[jlove]

Suns lose out on a trade with Toronto (No Ford, Nesterovic OR #17 pick coming here)

After on-and-off again negotiations, the Indiana Pacers have agreed in principle to send six-time All-Star Jermaine O’Neal to the Toronto Raptors for point guard T.J. Ford and the 17th pick in Thursday’s NBA draft, a league executive said Wednesday. After nearly completing the deal earlier in the week, Pacers and Raptors officials needed to exchange more medical information on O’Neal’s left knee and Ford’s neck before finding a comfort level with the trade. It is believed both sides now are comfortable making the deal, though the trade won’t be complete until both O’Neal and Ford pass their physicals. Yahoo! Sports
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Toronto also will send Rasho Nesterovic and another role player to match up with O’Neal’s salary. O’Neal is owed $44 million over the next two seasons. He played just 42 games for Indiana a year ago with a left knee injury. O’Neal has expressed a desire to leave the Pacers for a contender. Yahoo! Sports[/FONT]

That frickin blows. Kerr better have a deal or two in place for tomorrow to add depth and/or picks.

 

[overseascardfan]

I don't think Portland would do that deal. One of the positions they're weak at is SF, so I don't see them trading away a nice SF project, a combo guard AND a pick for LB.

I don't really like the Diaw deal there. Nesterovic isn't terrible, he's an alright defender but overall he's not nearly the player Diaw is and he's not as versatile. I'd feel like the Suns need to get more in that deal with Toronto make it fair. Perhaps a 2nd round pick, but TOR doesn't have one this year.

I actually think they would as it seems they are willing to trade Outlaw over Webster who would probably move to SF.

But now that TOR is out of the picture I would add Diaw to the trade and take Frye & the #27

So...

Phx gets Jack, Outlaw, Frye, #13 & #27

POR gets Barbosa, Diaw

 

[jlove]

Boris Diaw for Nesterovic and the #17?

Ughh. There had better be someone the Suns really want at 17 for me to be able to stomach that one. Nesterovic would have to be expiring as well.

Doubt that the Pacers would do that deal. Nesterovic is an expiring. IMO if we offered:
Barbosa/Diaw for Tinsley/Nesterovic/#11 they might bite.

I proposed that earlier. I know Tinsley is injury prone, but with him being a back-up rather than starter he wont be playing 31+ minutes (and with our outstanding training staff). He also excelled at the run-n-gun that Indy played when JO went down. This deal would give us $9 mil cap space next summer, plus we get another 1st rounder.

Or maybe a Diaw/Barbosa for Tinsley/Foster/#11
Or even a Diaw/Barbosa/#15 for Tinsley/Foster/#11/#17

 

[HooverDam]

That frickin blows. Kerr better have a deal or two in place for tomorrow to add depth and/or picks.

At this point, if I had to bet money, I'd put it on the Suns making no moves, and drafting Robin Lopez at 15. I'd then put money on me killing myself.

 

[mojorizen7]

At this point, if I had to bet money, I'd put it on the Suns making no moves, and drafting Robin Lopez at 15. I'd then put money on me killing myself.

I agree that the SUNS will stand pat. Why? Because despite the expected FO and fan talk of the "championship window" still being open....it isn't.... so why do something stupid. If i'm the GM the only moves i'm making at this point are moves made to get younger.
If the SUNS do anything besides moving 2nd round picks i'd be shocked.

 

[Evil Ash]

Here's a little more info on who the "filler" may have been in the Portland deal for Barbosa

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2008/06/25/20080625suns0626.html

The Suns talked about trading Leandro Barbosa to Portland, where he has high interest, for Martell Webster, the No. 13 overall pick and perhaps Finnish point guard Petteri Koponen. But the Blazers were keying on other options Wednesday, including ones with New York and New Jersey.

I'm curious what in the world the Knicks have to offer.