Report - Veldheer Traded to Denver

[cardncubfan]

I think they realize this is a sunk season and they're banking it for next season. Not being cheap, but making a mockery of the "aggressive" bull crap Keim has been spouting.

Look, I'd have been all-in on a rebuild. Be honest and forthcoming with the fans, do your utmost to get your QBOF, and build for the future. I'd have LOVED that blueprint. Instead we got "aggressive" without actually being aggressive, we get a pathetic backup QB that spikes any idea of going after a QBOF, and I fear we're in same old Keim mode for our 1st rounder--piddling down his leg, afraid of spending ANY capital to move up and draft a QBOF, reaching for some project instead, and further burying this team's future. W

ith cutting Veldheer and without spending much cap space, I think it's clear they're punting on the season in favor of next year, but without a QB to develop, and without a real vet to move forward with, I'm left wondering: "What future?"

So, suffice to say, I don't think Keim's doing a very good job

First Keim never said they would be aggressive in FA this year. He did say they would be aggressive in getting a QB which they were. Second, how in the hell does signing Glennon to a 2 year contract spike any idea of getting a QBotF? Glennon has better #'s than Stanton & is ideal for a back up in this league. Which imo is a pretty good qb for a BACK UP. Signing Both Bradford & MG to short contracts all but guarantees we going after a QBotF in the draft.


Edit: It was actually Wilks that said they would be aggressive in getting a QB. I don't believe Keim said anything.

 

[Arz101]

I always liked Veldheer. Still do. He is an above average left tackle when healthy.

Cards want to go to DJ Humpries full-time. And Veldheer is not a sustainable right tackle. So they trade get a draft pick and save some money. What is there to disagree?

 

[cardncubfan]

Why they are one of the more reputable draft sites. It’s not even his opinion it’s opinions from NFL scouts. Show me a site that has Rudolph in the top 4.


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Do you really think the scouts are going to be truthful? Especially if he is their guy.

 

[HoodieBets]

Do you really think the scouts are going to be truthful? Especially if he is their guy.

Smokescreens are a bigger deal to fans than teams. Especially since no specific teams was mentioned.


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[cardncubfan]

Smokescreens are a bigger deal to fans than teams. Especially since no specific teams was mentioned.


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I'm pretty sure the interviewer knew which team the scout worked for.

 

[Stout]

First Keim never said they would be aggressive in FA this year. He did say they would be aggressive in getting a QB which they were. Second, how in the hell does signing Glennon to a 2 year contract spike any idea of getting a QBotF? Glennon has better #'s than Stanton & is ideal for a back up in this league. Which imo is a pretty good qb for a BACK UP. Signing Both Bradford & MG to short contracts all but guarantees we going after a QBotF in the draft.


Edit: It was actually Wilks that said they would be aggressive in getting a QB. I don't believe Keim said anything.

Because Keim is on record as liking Glennon a lot in the past. He didn't sign him to cut him, and you don't trade up in the draft for a QBOF (or take one at #15, for that matter), and make him 3rd string. 3rd stringers play scout, often get dropped to the practice squad (not an option for a top pick--a team would claim him in a snap), and don't get any development at all throughout the whole season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I always liked Veldheer. Still do. He is an above average left tackle when healthy.

Cards want to go to DJ Humpries full-time. And Veldheer is not a sustainable right tackle. So they trade get a draft pick and save some money. What is there to disagree?

DJ Humphries is beyond injury prone, Andre Smith is dog-crap and injury prone, there's now zero depth on the line and we weren't scraping against the cap... is where i disagree.

 

[Stout]

DJ Humphries is beyond injury prone, Andre Smith is dog-crap and injury prone, there's now zero depth on the line and we weren't scraping against the cap... is where i disagree.

Bullseye.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Because Keim is on record as liking Glennon a lot in the past. He didn't sign him to cut him, and you don't trade up in the draft for a QBOF (or take one at #15, for that matter), and make him 3rd string. 3rd stringers play scout, often get dropped to the practice squad (not an option for a top pick--a team would claim him in a snap), and don't get any development at all throughout the whole season.

Glennon signed a 2 year $8M deal. That's peanuts for a QB. If the Cardinals draft a QB, the rookie will start on the team as the 3rd string QB and have to earn his way up the depth chart. How fast that happens depends on the rookie. Glennon will remain the #2 until Bradford gets hurt or the rookie passed him up.

 

[Stout]

Glennon signed a 2 year $8M deal. That's peanuts for a QB. If the Cardinals draft a QB, the rookie will start on the team as the 3rd string QB and have to earn his way up the depth chart. How fast that happens depends on the rookie. Glennon will remain the #2 until Bradford gets hurt or the rookie passed him up.

That only works through training camp. You don't get a chance to work up the depth chart as the #3 QB in the regular season because you're nothing more than a practice squad/scout QB. The only way it really works is if they cut Glennon, because you can't pay a #3 QB that much money--and you can't sneak a 1st rounder onto the practice squad/absolutely waste a season with them at 3rd string and not developing at all.

It comes down to whether or not you believe Keim would cut Glennon. I just don't see it happening.

 

[MadCardDisease]

That only works through training camp. You don't get a chance to work up the depth chart as the #3 QB in the regular season because you're nothing more than a practice squad/scout QB. The only way it really works is if they cut Glennon, because you can't pay a #3 QB that much money--and you can't sneak a 1st rounder onto the practice squad/absolutely waste a season with them at 3rd string and not developing at all.

It comes down to whether or not you believe Keim would cut Glennon. I just don't see it happening.

You can't cut Glennon because of the Bradford injury Risk. If Bradford somehow stays healthy then the Cardinals have a shot at doing something good this year. If Bradford gets hurt then Glennon becomes your #1 and the Rookie gets a ton more reps.

Paying a rookie QB $2-3M to sit on the bench until he is ready isn't going to kill you cap wise.

 

[Stout]

You can't cut Glennon because of the Bradford injury Risk. If Bradford somehow stays healthy then the Cardinals have a shot at doing something good this year. If Bradford gets hurt then Glennon becomes your #1 and the Rookie gets a ton more reps.

Paying a rookie QB $2-3M to sit on the bench until he is ready isn't going to kill you cap wise.

It's not the cap that will kill you, it's the wasted year with no development. A QBOF isn't going to get even a fraction of the practice work/snaps needed to develop even as a backup. The math just doesn't equate. So, unwillingness to cut Glennon = no QBOF this draft.

 

[POISON]

Why they are one of the more reputable draft sites. It’s not even his opinion it’s opinions from NFL scouts. Show me a site that has Rudolph in the top 4.


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CBS Sports Com had Rudolph #1 overall pick a couple months ago, I was shocked. It's probably changed since then. He's a really good qb but I'm not saying he's sure fire the best .

 

[POISON]

That only works through training camp. You don't get a chance to work up the depth chart as the #3 QB in the regular season because you're nothing more than a practice squad/scout QB. The only way it really works is if they cut Glennon, because you can't pay a #3 QB that much money--and you can't sneak a 1st rounder onto the practice squad/absolutely waste a season with them at 3rd string and not developing at all.

It comes down to whether or not you believe Keim would cut Glennon. I just don't see it happening.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but any player on the practice squad can be signed by another team as long as he's activated to their current 53 man roster?

 

[MadCardDisease]

It's not the cap that will kill you, it's the wasted year with no development. A QBOF isn't going to get even a fraction of the practice work/snaps needed to develop even as a backup. The math just doesn't equate. So, unwillingness to cut Glennon = no QBOF this draft.

I don't know about that based off of this report:

Tom Pelissero‏Verified account@TomPelissero 51m51 minutes ago
New #Cardinals coach Steve Wilks making clear: in the short term, Sam Bradford is his starting QB. “Hopefully, it turns into long term.” If they draft a QB, they’d like him to sit and learn.

 

[POISON]

Glennon is terrible. I hope he never takes a snap this year unless it's garbage time, good or bad. Unfortunately, teflon Bradford will be a long shot to make it through the season healthy.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but any player on the practice squad can be signed by another team as long as he's activated to their current 53 man roster?

Yes there is no way you draft a QBOTF and place him on the Practice Squad as any team could snag him off it.

 

[Arz101]

Cards tried to pay over the top dollar to both Cousins and Brees. Both chose a team they think gave them a better chance to win.So Csrds went to fallback option and signed Bradford and Glennon. likely will draft a QB. On an average all 3 QBs combines will make around $20 million dollars which is what Carson and Stanton got paid together.

What is the Beef here?

 

[POISON]

Yes there is no way you draft a QBOTF and place him on the Practice Squad as any team could snag him off it.

Thanks MadCard, that's what I thought.

 

[Solar7]

That only works through training camp. You don't get a chance to work up the depth chart as the #3 QB in the regular season because you're nothing more than a practice squad/scout QB. The only way it really works is if they cut Glennon, because you can't pay a #3 QB that much money--and you can't sneak a 1st rounder onto the practice squad/absolutely waste a season with them at 3rd string and not developing at all.

It comes down to whether or not you believe Keim would cut Glennon. I just don't see it happening.

I'm not buying the "you can't keep a 1st round QB with two backups" narrative. The Rams did it with Goff, the Bears did it last year with Trubisky, the Chiefs with Mahomes. In 2015, the Bucs did it with Winston, and the Titans with Mariota, although those two began the season as starters.

I won't take the time to go back much farther, but I think the equation is simple - you get the rookie reps in the preseason and training camp, he takes a fair amount of 2nd team snaps during the season, Glennon is there as the experienced backup in the case that Bradford misses 1-2 games, the rookie gets a shot if Bradford is out for an extended amount of time.

Either way, the rookie gets the added benefit of being in the playbook for a year, being in meetings, and learning how to go about being a pro.

 

[Stout]

Yes there is no way you draft a QBOTF and place him on the Practice Squad as any team could snag him off it.

Exactly!

I don't know about that based off of this report:

Yes, behind Bradford, not behind Bradford AND Glennon. There wouldn't be any development to be had in that scenario.

 

[Stout]

I'm not buying the "you can't keep a 1st round QB with two backups" narrative. The Rams did it with Goff, the Bears did it last year with Trubisky, the Chiefs with Mahomes. In 2015, the Bucs did it with Winston, and the Titans with Mariota, although those two began the season as starters.

I won't take the time to go back much farther, but I think the equation is simple - you get the rookie reps in the preseason and training camp, he takes a fair amount of 2nd team snaps during the season, Glennon is there as the experienced backup in the case that Bradford misses 1-2 games, the rookie gets a shot if Bradford is out for an extended amount of time.

Either way, the rookie gets the added benefit of being in the playbook for a year, being in meetings, and learning how to go about being a pro.

Yeah, with QBs they don't mind cutting/practice squadding (the vets, not the rooks). They were "3rd-string" QBs, usually for only a short time, and in name only. You can bet your bottom dollar they got the lion's share of the backup snaps during the season. There's just no way Glennon is going to be 3rd-string/attempted to be put on the practice squad/cut to make way for a top-round QBOF prospect.

In getting anything other than a warm body backup (which Glennon probably is--he got overpaid), he tipped his hand.

Will Keim "aggressively" draft a kid in the 4th, 5th, 6th or so rounds? Probably, if for nothing else to say "see, we drafted a QB". They wouldn't have any problems keeping that low a pick as a 3rd QB.

 

[overseascardfan]

I don't know about that based off of this report:

If this is not a smoke screen, Lauletta, Falk, White could be their guy. They better be using early round picks on proven studs and not D3 projects.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Yes, behind Bradford, not behind Bradford AND Glennon. There wouldn't be any development to be had in that scenario.

I disagree.

While the snap count would be lower, the rookie would spend most of his time learning the verbiage and absorbing the other nuances of the game.

 

[Solar7]

Yeah, with QBs they don't mind cutting/practice squadding (the vets, not the rooks). They were "3rd-string" QBs, usually for only a short time, and in name only. You can bet your bottom dollar they got the lion's share of the backup snaps during the season. There's just no way Glennon is going to be 3rd-string/attempted to be put on the practice squad/cut to make way for a top-round QBOF prospect.

In getting anything other than a warm body backup (which Glennon probably is--he got overpaid), he tipped his hand.

Will Keim "aggressively" draft a kid in the 4th, 5th, 6th or so rounds? Probably, if for nothing else to say "see, we drafted a QB". They wouldn't have any problems keeping that low a pick as a 3rd QB.

Completely disagreed here then, fine. Glennon's contract isn't prohibitive. Glennon can easily be sat back with the expectation he knows the speed of the league and doesn't need the backup snaps. I'm sure it will rotate - unless Bradford is questionable for the game and it's likely Glennon might play. We have the space to cut the guy without any real concerns. Or just keep him and set him back there.

Like other posters have said, at least the rookie will be able to be in the playbook, learning the verbiage, seeing other nuances of the game, learning to be a pro when your full time job is football.

Mark Sanchez wasn't just a warm body backup for the Bears. Mannion was a 3rd round pick the year prior for the Rams, with Keenum as the starter, and Goff was still selected.

I can't go through every single example here, because I don't have the time, but in no way does it cancel out the chance of taking a QB in the first or 2nd rounds.