Robert Sarver is in Big Trouble (ANNOUNCES SALE PROCESS)

[AsUpRoDiGy]

Why do we consistently fall into the trap of attacking each other on this board?

Uh…it’s the internet…

 

[Cheesebeef]

Uh…it’s the internet…

Lol... No one even attacked the other here.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Wow, I really didn't remember saying it that way. Sorry about that but I wasn't intentionally trying to twist anything. Okay, so I liked him even more at one time than I remembered. But things change.

I didn't like him as a coach up until the day we fired him and then immediately start distrusting him, it happened over a period of time. Actually, I did like him as a person for most of his time here, perhaps all of his time here but I lost faith in him as a coach well before that. My opinion of him as a person changed after he left.

Fair enough. I guess the question remains is why your opinion of him changed after he left? If that’s based on whatever rumors came out, Didnt those likely get leaked or expressly stated from from management about him? If so, shouldn’t anything coming from that department be taken with a grain of salt at this point?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Lol... No one even attacked the other here.

Yeah I didn't feel attacked. I said something wrong and got corrected. I wish you'd have used invisible ink though, that's the kind of quote that's hard to live down.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Fair enough. I guess the question remains is why your opinion of him changed after he left? If that’s based on whatever rumors came out, Didnt those likely get leaked or expressly started from from management about him? If so, shouldn’t anything coming from that department be taken with a grain of salt at this point?

I can't point to specific comments but things have come out from or regarding players such as Tucker, Dudley and Chandler that led to my change of opinion about Earl.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah I didn't feel attacked. I said something wrong and got corrected. I wish you'd have used invisible ink though, that's the kind of quote that's hard to live down.

Lol! I started a thread titled “JOSH MCCOWN IS THE ANSWER!” back in the day. We’ve all got plenty of doozies on this board after decades worth of blathering on!

 

[Cheesebeef]

I can't point to specific comments but things have come out from or regarding players such as Tucker, Dudley and Chandler that led to my change of opinion about Earl.

Oh, it was players not management. Gotcha. That makes more sense.

 

[JerkFace]

Yeah I didn't feel attacked. I said something wrong and got corrected. I wish you'd have used invisible ink though, that's the kind of quote that's hard to live down.

I remember listening to Watson’s weekly radio interview and thinking each time, “damn, I would run through a wall for that guy”. At the time I thought he was the perfect coach for the team since confidence can be super important in the development of a young player. But, like you, as time went on (especially in the end) there just seemed to be something unsavory about the guy.

 

[sdscard4]

I hated Watson as a player....the day I heard we were hiring him as coach sucked! I liked Gentry and Jeff H.
The 3 stooges after them literally killed this franchise. Thank God for Monty

 

[Azlen]

Context of the video is probably important considering it was a roast but it is still not a good look considering.

Robert Sarver: Phoenix Suns owner makes sexual jokes in newly surfaced video - Sports Illustrated

The Suns owner was accused in a recent report of racist and misogynistic behavior.

www.si.com

 

[Western Font]

Maybe having worked in and around journalism I have more trust for reporters, but “70 people interviewed” IS significant. Seventy people were willing to be interviewed by a reporter with a national media outlet. Many of them were likely referred by others as people with knowledge or who were in the room, etc. This includes people with positive things to say. No story is going to break down ratios in responses with that many anonymous sources unless there’s a polling element.

We don’t know the overlap of the quote attribution, but even in an oral history quotations make up a very small fraction of what was actually said during interviews. Seventy interviews, plus everything said on background, plus everything in the public record…it’s a lot from which to draw.

 

[Covert Rain]

Maybe having worked in and around journalism I have more trust for reporters, but “70 people interviewed” IS significant. Seventy people were willing to be interviewed by a reporter with a national media outlet. Many of them were likely referred by others as people with knowledge or who were in the room, etc. This includes people with positive things to say. No story is going to break down ratios in responses with that many anonymous sources unless there’s a polling element.

We don’t know the overlap of the quote attribution, but even in an oral history quotations make up a very small fraction of what was actually said during interviews. Seventy interviews, plus everything said on background, plus everything in the public record…it’s a lot from which to draw.

I get the impression that some of these 70 were simply the reporter asking for comment or making calls. I think the term "interviewed" is likely misleading. Having said that, the number of people actually interviewed is still likely significant. I still have a hard time believing ESPN's legal team did not go over this before releasing. So, there has to be some corroboration. It's going to be interesting to see the NBA's investigation response.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yeah it was sarcasm.

And yes, it makes sense that a former coach or GM might be justifiably disgruntled. But Watson and McD don't strike me as trustworthy so I'm disinclined to grant them instant credibility just because the guy they are talking about is Sarver. I wouldn't simply dismiss their comments either, they just don't carry the same weight someone else's would.

The problem with this take is that it appears at least, that there are dozens more people backing up what they are saying.

If it's one or two people, yeah they could be disgruntled, but 20?

And even Penny Sarver's actions are wholly inappropriate and show that the Sarvers don't really get how you should handle yourself.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Context of the video is probably important considering it was a roast but it is still not a good look considering.

Robert Sarver: Phoenix Suns owner makes sexual jokes in newly surfaced video - Sports Illustrated

The Suns owner was accused in a recent report of racist and misogynistic behavior.

www.si.com

The way he refers to the cheerleaders and the size of a receptionist chest isn't relevant to the roast and more indicative of how he perceives women.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The problem with this take is that it appears at least, that there are dozens more people backing up what they are saying.

If it's one or two people, yeah they could be disgruntled, but 20?

And even Penny Sarver's actions are wholly inappropriate and show that the Sarvers don't really get how you should handle yourself.

I'm not sure what you're saying here?

Are you just talking about the fact that a lot of people appear to have issues with the way the Suns and Sarver operated and that, in general, they support comments supposedly made by Watson and McD?

Or are you saying there are dozens more people that claim to be specific witnesses to the situations that Watson and Mcd are the rumored sources for?

I ask because there's a huge difference between those two scenarios and I've seen nothing that leads me to believe it's the latter scenario.

Right now, we're mostly dealing with hearsay and anonymous claims. Until that changes, I don't give much credence to anything that is attributed to either of those two. That's not to say I don't think Sarver has a lot to answer for - he clearly does. And it's not to say that those specific Watson and McD claims may not prove out during the NBA investigation.

If I had my way, Sarver would step down immediately. I think it's the best thing he can do for this organization, the fans and the league. But Sarver can be very guilty and still not guilty of the things that are rumored to have come out (from Watson especially).

I'd need a lot more support to accept that Sarver was stupid enough to call a player the N word or to use it in a manner other than the way in which he admitted to have used it.

Asking the question "why did my player get a technical for using the N word while Draymond says it throughout the game" is a far cry from saying "that N is lazy" or "that N says it, why can't I".

If it comes out that Sarver used it against an individual or a group, our problems are solved. The players won't stand for it and if the league doesn't take action, the players will.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I'm not sure what you're saying here?

Are you just talking about the fact that a lot of people appear to have issues with the way the Suns and Sarver operated and that, in general, they support comments supposedly made by Watson and McD?

Or are you saying there are dozens more people that claim to be specific witnesses to the situations that Watson and Mcd are the rumored sources for?

I ask because there's a huge difference between those two scenarios and I've seen nothing that leads me to believe it's the latter scenario.

Not necessarily backing up their specific claims. Making very similar claims.

Right now, we're mostly dealing with hearsay and anonymous claims. Until that changes, I don't give much credence to anything that is attributed to either of those two. That's not to say I don't think Sarver has a lot to answer for - he clearly does. And it's not to say that those specific Watson and McD claims may not prove out during the NBA investigation.

So you think they made up their claims but everyone might not have? That's not likely.

If I had my way, Sarver would step down immediately. I think it's the best thing he can do for this organization, the fans and the league. But Sarver can be very guilty and still not guilty of the things that are rumored to have come out (from Watson especially).

I think that the fact that it sounds like many other people have said these things, that the likelihood that Watson or McD are lying is dubious.

I'd need a lot more support to accept that Sarver was stupid enough to call a player the N word or to use it in a manner other than the way in which he admitted to have used it.

Asking the question "why did my player get a technical for using the N word while Draymond says it throughout the game" is a far cry from saying "that N is lazy" or "that N says it, why can't I".

If it comes out that Sarver used it against an individual or a group, our problems are solved. The players won't stand for it and if the league doesn't take action, the players will.

The way it sounds to me is that Sarver feels like he is a part of the team culture, part of the locker room culture, and thus believing he can say the same things that players are saying. The article outlines numerous instances of this.

As an Intelligence Analyst, I have learned that a mountain of evidence makes it hard to argue against a specific point. If you have 1-3 sources, a story might not be true. But 20? 30? I mean, we don't really know how many sources the author actually has, but even 10 sources makes the assertion that Sarver is a scumbag true. And it also means the likelihood that Watson is lying pretty small. You can dislike Watson and he can be scummy in his own way, but he can also be right in what he says about Sarver. I'd tend to think he is.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm not sure what you're saying here?

Are you just talking about the fact that a lot of people appear to have issues with the way the Suns and Sarver operated and that, in general, they support comments supposedly made by Watson and McD?

Or are you saying there are dozens more people that claim to be specific witnesses to the situations that Watson and Mcd are the rumored sources for?

I ask because there's a huge difference between those two scenarios and I've seen nothing that leads me to believe it's the latter scenario.

Right now, we're mostly dealing with hearsay and anonymous claims. Until that changes, I don't give much credence to anything that is attributed to either of those two. That's not to say I don't think Sarver has a lot to answer for - he clearly does. And it's not to say that those specific Watson and McD claims may not prove out during the NBA investigation.

If I had my way, Sarver would step down immediately. I think it's the best thing he can do for this organization, the fans and the league. But Sarver can be very guilty and still not guilty of the things that are rumored to have come out (from Watson especially).

I'd need a lot more support to accept that Sarver was stupid enough to call a player the N word or to use it in a manner other than the way in which he admitted to have used it.

Asking the question "why did my player get a technical for using the N word while Draymond says it throughout the game" is a far cry from saying "that N is lazy" or "that N says it, why can't I".

If it comes out that Sarver used it against an individual or a group, our problems are solved. The players won't stand for it and if the league doesn't take action, the players will.

I still just can’t understand for the life of me why Watson’s word is completely meaningless, but Sarver’s word on that interaction (where he already hedged and admitting dropping an N-bomb) should be believed in any way shape or form, especially considering current Suns executives quoted in the piece have corroborated racist attitudes, co-owners have slammed as sexist, not to mention he’s a well known total piece of trash in a BOATLOAD of ways for over a decade.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I still just can’t understand for the life of me why Watson’s word is completely meaningless, but Sarver’s word on that interaction (where he already hedged and admitting dropping an N-bomb) should be believed in any way shape or form, especially considering current Suns executives quoted in the piece have corroborated racist attitudes, co-owners have slammed as sexist, not to mention he’s a well known total piece of trash in a BOATLOAD of ways for over a decade.

Occam's razor.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Occam's razor.

Yeah. Also, the decrying of “anonymous sources” is just weak. Those sources are anonymous to US, not the reporters, who also need to corroborate those sources before they run with material.

And seeing as members of the HR department have gone on record saying they tell people they need to come to HR OUTSIDE OF WORK for fear of retaliation, anonymous sources makes even more sense.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yeah. Also, the decrying of “anonymous sources” is just weak. Those sources are anonymous to US, not the reporters, who also need to corroborate those sources before they run with material.

And seeing as members of the HR department have gone on record saying they tell people they need to come to HR OUTSIDE OF WORK for fear of retaliation, anonymous sources makes even more sense.

Major media outlets would NOT run with this story without independently verifying the sources since libel comes into play if they don't.

That means someone from ESPN independently verified this article first.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I still just can’t understand for the life of me why Watson’s word is completely meaningless, but Sarver’s word on that interaction (where he already hedged and admitting dropping an N-bomb) should be believed in any way shape or form, especially considering current Suns executives quoted in the piece have corroborated racist attitudes, co-owners have slammed as sexist, not to mention he’s a well known total piece of trash in a BOATLOAD of ways for over a decade.

Unless you're talking about something I missed, what Sarver admitted to saying is a minor blip. The kind of thing you just apologize for and move on. Watson's version is well across the line as is the "Ayton is a lazy N word".

It seems to me that you and others assume I'm accepting Robert's word here. I have no idea which one is telling the truth. I'm not accepting Robert's story at all, I'm just not accepting Watson's either.

It doesn't really matter though. People don't do things like that just once, if Sarver really said it privately to Earl and there are no witnesses to back him up, it's a good bet he's crossed that line many other times in front of less questionable sources.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Listening to Bill Simmons pod where Jackie McMullen, one of the best NBA reporters ever says not only does she know Baxter Holmes, she knows what kind of reporter he is, totally believes him and there have been talk FOREVER floating around the league about Sarver being a racist/sexist but people were always afraid to go on the record until now.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Unless you're talking about something I missed, what Sarver admitted to saying is a minor blip. The kind of thing you just apologize for and move on. Watson's version is well across the line as is the "Ayton is a lazy N word".

It seems to me that you and others assume I'm accepting Robert's word here. I have no idea which one is telling the truth. I'm not accepting Robert's story at all, I'm just not accepting Watson's either.

It doesn't really matter though. People don't do things like that just once, if Sarver really said it privately to Earl and there are no witnesses to back him up, it's a good bet he's crossed that line many other times in front of less questionable sources.

Again, you’re taking Sarver’s “minor blip” at face value when I believe it’s more likely spin that doesn’t tell the whole story. Same way he “just brought in bikini pics to show off a brochure”. His responses to the BS stuff that he vomited out of his mouth wreak of even more BS.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Again, you’re taking Sarver’s “minor blip” at face value when I believe it’s more likely spin that doesn’t tell the whole story. Same way he “just brought in bikini pics to show off a brochure”. His responses to the BS stuff that he vomited out of his mouth wreak of even more BS.

No I'm not. And I've said it many times.

Two people you don't trust tell you opposite sides of the same story. Who do you believe? Myself, I don't accept either story as true or as false. I just ignore them and wait for better information.

And I'm not buying into Sarver's version of either incident, I'm just waiting for better information.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I don't believe either Sarver or Watson.