Rockets at Suns Game Thread

[dodie53]

right now,
we really can't win a ring with this team

 

[Bayless2Budinger]

The one play that I hate 100% is the play we give the ball to Shaq down low and Amare stands out of ****ing bounds. Whats the ****ing point of having AMare out of bounds? Why not make Amare the cutter?

Has Shaq even had 1 assist to Amare this year? Where is that great high/low game where they can work with each other?

I dont care how many pts Barbosa puts up. He is a black hole on offense and AWOL on defense. When Shaq/Nash are out of the game, we need to give Amare the ball down-low 75% of the time and let him either take it to the hole or kick it out to someone for a three or a slasher.

 

[SirStefan32]

So everyone has given up on their hopes of winning it all?

Why even play the rest of the season then? What's the point?

Some fans on a message board have declared them losers....

We all "hope" that they win it all.
I do think that some people are making too big of a deal out of 1 game, but on the other hand, it is not realistic to expect the Suns to win a best-of-7 series against some of the top teams- Lakers, Hornets, etc with their current lineup.
Bell and Barbosa just don't cut it on shooting guard position. Small forwards are terrible shooters as well. You have to have some game outside of Nash/ Amare pick and roll and posting up Shaq in the low post. Not to mention what would happen if one of the big three goes down for more than a game or two.

 

[cly2tw]

Just a few years back nobody expected anything out of Nash.
He gave Phoenix FOUR awesome seasons to remember a loooong time with the team falling just short of the title by injuries and bad luck.

To call for his head is just incredibly ungrateful.

For people calling Raja Bell a miserable shooter... I just don't know what to say. Even Mike Miller will have an off-night from time to time.
Last time I checked (5 minutes ago), Raja hit 51% from behind the arc to Miller's 41%.

Regarding the Suns' championship hopes, I'm certainly one who accepts reality.
But that doesn't mean I cannot enjoy this club. Lopez and Dragic seem hopeful for the future with is to come in two years and a load of money to spend.
For the time being, I enjoy what we have. Some promising youngsters, one of the best forwards in the game and three true legends of the game. Seeing Grant Hill playing is a joy and a blessing for the game of basketball.
There won't be somebody with the charisma of Shaq or the intelligence of Nash anytime soon.
Just enjoy it while you can, I say. Worry about the new championship run from 2010 on.

With Nash comments lately, you realize that he is not buying into Porter's idea of going through the bigs yet, which was the reason we had big leads in the 1st quarter. This team has no hope to win it all if Nash keeps trying to find his balance between DA's and Porter's system. That's a fruitless enterprise that's gonna do us in, not because of age or personell in general.

Watch the game tape, count how many passes by Nash got deflected, which results in TOs by the receivers or otherwise rushed and contested shots. Not even the Nash/Amare two-men game worked.

I'd say right now if we get Nugs to trade Billups/Smith for Nash/LB, we are in the hunt again for the title. Or, if Nash accepts reality and assumes a Stockton-like role on this team!

 

[Proteus]

Let's bring back D'Antoni as an offensive coach/consultant.

 

[nashman]

cly2tw so your honestly saying that Nash is the problem with this team?

 

[cly2tw]

cly2tw so your honestly saying that Nash is the problem with this team?

Yes, Sir!

 

[Cheesebeef]

cly2tw so your honestly saying that Nash is the problem with this team?

there's too many problems with this team, but on this roster (one problem), playing this style (another problem), Nash is a problem as well unfortunately. Not THE problem mind you, but he's part of it.

 

[DeAnna]

Surprised Raja Bell wasn't involved, he might have landed at least ONE shot tonight.

Before the game started, I predicted there would be a fight. However, I was thinking it would be Raja and Ron Artest!

 

[DeAnna]

Everyone needs to step back from the ledge. It's just 1 game!

 

[shazaam6]

Everyone needs to step back from the ledge. It's just 1 game!

The view is better from there.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Everyone needs to step back from the ledge. It's just 1 game!

i've had these thoughts for over a year. we were finished when we decided to trade KT and then made it worse with the Shaq trade. Holding on to the past for dear life ain't the way to go if we want to keep Amare (and bring in another big FA) in the future.

 

[cly2tw]

i've had these thoughts for over a year. we were finished when we decided to trade KT and then made it worse with the Shaq trade. Holding on to the past for dear life ain't the way to go if we want to keep Amare (and bring in another big FA) in the future.

Exactly. The franchise's future is in Amare's hands. Catering to Nash while neglecting Amare is just not smart business decision.

 

[nashman]

Nash is the reason Amare became a dominant player. Amare got shut down last night by an average defender. Some people aren't convinced Amare can handle being the teams future, and I am one of them. We were sold a load of crap, we were told that Porter isn't going to mess up the offense just tweak it a little to be able to play half court, well that was a lie as they are playing half court all the time. The team will get better but it is built to run still don't expect good results if we are gonna play slow all the time. What a waste of Nash to just walk the ball up and down the court and spot up once in awhile. I am not encouraged what Porter has done thus far, from what I saw last night we still can't defend and get a stop very well, on top of not being able to score which was never really a problem before. Shaq is not the old Shaq we can't just pound the ball into him over and over and over, turning the ball over alot just trying to pound it to Shaq. You can just tell these guys aren't buying into this offense as its just not working very well.

 

[cly2tw]

Nash is the reason Amare became a dominant player. Amare got shut down last night by an average defender. Some people aren't convinced Amare can handle being the teams future, and I am one of them. We were sold a load of crap, we were told that Porter isn't going to mess up the offense just tweak it a little to be able to play half court, well that was a lie as they are playing half court all the time. The team will get better but it is built to run still don't expect good results if we are gonna play slow all the time. What a waste of Nash to just walk the ball up and down the court and spot up once in awhile. I am not encouraged what Porter has done thus far, from what I saw last night we still can't defend and get a stop very well, on top of not being able to score which was never really a problem before. Shaq is not the old Shaq we can't just pound the ball into him over and over and over, turning the ball over alot just trying to pound it to Shaq. You can just tell these guys aren't buying into this offense as its just not working very well.

That's completely bull$%^&! Nash was the season JJ became the dominant player he was too, right? If anything Amare had mujch more upside than JJ to become a dominant player, but cos Nash and DA's system makes winning regular season games so easy without the need to develop Amare, he is now behind the curve compared to JJ!

That being said, there is no dispute about Nash's talent and agree that he'd be wasted within the new system. So, it may be better to part ways now the roster and mindset of mgt aren't good fit for his game. However, I will reiterate my claim put forward 3 years ago: a team with Nash as the best player or Mariion as the 2nd best will never win a NBA title!

 

[Covert Rain]

That's completely bull$%^&! Nash was the season JJ became the dominant player he was too, right? If anything Amare had mujch more upside than JJ to become a dominant player, but cos Nash and DA's system makes winning regular season games so easy without the need to develop Amare, he is now behind the curve compared to JJ!

That being said, there is no dispute about Nash's talent and agree that he'd be wasted within the new system. So, it may be better to part ways now the roster and mindset of mgt aren't good fit for his game. However, I will reiterate my claim put forward 3 years ago: a team with Nash as the best player or Mariion as the 2nd best will never win a NBA title!

Have to agree here. Nash can give Amare easier buckets. Amare is averaging 21.1 PPG (career) and Nash is averaging 8 APG (Career). You would have to assume on average most of those assists all go to Amare which is not true. Steve for sure gives Amare easy buckets but it's not like they are all allyoops. Amare still has to drive to the bucket, knock down open jump shots and drive to the hoop.

Look how many times Amare is getting to the line this year. Is Steve helping Amare drive to the hoop and get to the line? Besides, Nash doesn't help Amare, rebound, steel or block shots either.

Nash can make players around him better but he cannot make players dominant. There is a huge difference.

 

[nashman]

Personally I don't want Amare shooting 15-20 FT's a game because that means he is getting beat on which will wear him down or get him injured. Nash makes the game much easier for Amare to score gets him the ball in positions to succeed. It would be interesting to look at Amares numbers when Nash is on the bench. I will tell you one thing when Nash is on the bench Amare finds himself not getting the ball as much in good positions. I don't want to see Amare trying to dribble drive from way outside as he gets the ball stripped or loses control way to often. Agree or not Nash has made this team a contender the last few years if he were to go now... we would not longer be a contender. At least right now there is a chance we get our crap together and this team could make a run, trade Nash and you may as well dumb everyone and start over, which as a fan I don't want to see I always want to see us compete we can rebuild during the offseason its way to early to even think about this right now.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Agree or not Nash has made this team a contender the last few years if he were to go now... we would not longer be a contender. At least right now there is a chance we get our crap together and this team could make a run, trade Nash and you may as well dumb everyone and start over, which as a fan I don't want to see I always want to see us compete we can rebuild during the offseason its way to early to even think about this right now.

man, I think the above is just so wrong on so many levels. We weren't a contender last season, winning one game in the playoffs, we're not going to be a contender this season and as painful as it is to admit (and will be to watch) the faster you start rebuilding and being able to "sell high" with what talent you do have (namely Nash) the more you can get on your return. Slogging through this year only to maybe get a 7 or 8 seed ass kicking in the playoffs while making Nash look really bad in this system which will devalue him in us trying to get anything to rebuild around while missing out on a lotto pick this year (while not having one next year due to the brilliant KT trade) ain't the way to go. I think the stick with what we've got plan is just denial that the run is over.

We should follow Dumar's lead. His team was better than ours and he knew it was over so he started making major changes with an eye on the future, knowing that if he waited longer, the worse return he would get on his players.

 

[Covert Rain]

Personally I don't want Amare shooting 15-20 FT's a game because that means he is getting beat on which will wear him down or get him injured.

No doubt it takes it toll but I totally disagree. There are plenty of big men who have long careers and making a living at the FT line (i.e. Karl Malone). If Amare is in peak condition, there is no reason he can't have a long career and still lead the league in FT attempts at the PF position.

 

[nowagimp]

Have to agree here. Nash can give Amare easier buckets. Amare is averaging 21.1 PPG (career) and Nash is averaging 8 APG (Career). You would have to assume on average most of those assists all go to Amare which is not true. Steve for sure gives Amare easy buckets but it's not like they are all allyoops. Amare still has to drive to the bucket, knock down open jump shots and drive to the hoop.

Look how many times Amare is getting to the line this year. Is Steve helping Amare drive to the hoop and get to the line? Besides, Nash doesn't help Amare, rebound, steel or block shots either.

Nash can make players around him better but he cannot make players dominant. There is a huge difference.

I remember reading last year the % assisted baskets for all the PF's. Amare was in the high 60% range and david west was 58% asst baskets. Amare has feasted on the pick and roll, almost all assisted baskets were from nash.

 

[Covert Rain]

I remember reading last year the % assisted baskets for all the PF's. Amare was in the high 60% range and david west was 58% asst baskets. Amare has feasted on the pick and roll, almost all assisted baskets were from nash.

I don't doubt that Nash had more assists to Amare then any other player on the team. However, that would mean on average 5 out of every 8 assists Nash had per game went to Amare. I just don't buy it.

Especially considering the pre-Shaq trade, Nash used to throw a ton of allyoops to Shawn Marion.

We also have a few other guys on this team that are decent passers who I am sure dished out as well.

Again, this does not support Nash made Amare dominant. There are other things that Amare does that Steve has no bearing on.

 

[nowagimp]

No doubt it takes it toll but I totally disagree. There are plenty of big men who have long careers and making a living at the FT line (i.e. Karl Malone). If Amare is in peak condition, there is no reason he can't have a long career and still lead the league in FT attempts at the PF position.

Karl Malone was a physical beast that had no microfracture surgery, he also didnt jump much. Comparing him to amare is not very realistic, malone was one of the most durable players in NBA history, not so amare.

 

[Covert Rain]

Karl Malone was a physical beast that had no microfracture surgery, he also didnt jump much. Comparing him to amare is not very realistic, malone was one of the most durable players in NBA history, not so amare.

True but we don't have any measuring stick for microfracture surgery. Amare's own surgeon even said it's possible he could need another repair in a few years or none until after he is done playing. He didn't know.

Besides, Amare is not an injury prone player and dishes out more punishment then he takes. In fact, I would say Amare takes less punishment now playing primarily the PF position then when he was playing center.

 

[nowagimp]

I don't doubt that Nash had more assists to Amare then any other player on the team. However, that would mean on average 5 out of every 8 assists Nash had per game went to Amare. I just don't buy it.

Especially considering the pre-Shaq trade, Nash used to throw a ton of allyoops to Shawn Marion.

We also have a few other guys on this team that are decent passers who I am sure dished out as well.

Again, this does not support Nash made Amare dominant. There are other things that Amare does that Steve has no bearing on.

For the first 5 years of amares career he had no mid range shot and only drove right, but he did score up to 26ppg. He has the highest % assisted baskets of PF's in the west. You can figure this out, it isnt that hard. this year amare has more tools, his midrange shot became reality last year and this year he is learning down on the low post and moves more to his left with spin moves. Stay tuned, he's a work in progress, but a guy who drives right everytime can't become all NBA for his offensive skills without alot of help.

 

[Covert Rain]

For the first 5 years of amares career he had no mid range shot and only drove right, but he did score up to 26ppg. He has the highest % assisted baskets of PF's in the west. You can figure this out, it isnt that hard. this year amare has more tools, his midrange shot became reality last year and this year he is learning down on the low post and moves more to his left with spin moves. Stay tuned, he's a work in progress, but a guy who drives right everytime can't become all NBA for his offensive skills without alot of help.

I will give you that Nash in previous years gave Amare more easy buckets on the pick and roll. However, Nash can't help Amare dunk over people. Nash can't help Amare get around screens and go up for the ball.

Amare more so last year and this year has developed other shots. Again, this goes back to did Nash make Amare dominant or make Amare better? I don't think one player can make another player dominant. I think one player can make another players job easier. There is a difference.